Leica's new MF system Options

[paulmoorestudio]

in which aspect it will be top in your opinion?
i cant see it, but i`ll wait till i see some images or till the camera will meet the stores.

even in the good ol times when i felt enough talented to use leicas i never could understand the hyteric fits of their users about their uncomparable qualities.

boy I thought still-life photographers were staid...

Look, I have not handled the camera so I am only a looker like the rest of us.. I have used their r9/dmr for the past 3 years and have found the camera the best 35mm camera I have ever shot with.. but I never said or would say it is "uncomparable" nor would I describe myself as "hysterical", as you are implying in your statement.
I hope you have found in your career some equipment you have been really happy with, bonded with, tools which used day in and day out mold to you like a custom made leather shoe.. call me weird but I have an affinity with some of my cameras.. I still have a technika that I can't part with because it was part of my style at one time..more than just an optical devise to capture light.. it helped define me as a creative photographer and was an intregal part of the experience of photographing, something which is often lost in the day to day life of a commercial photographer shooting the same old box on white seamless or the same old box on the street corner. As silly as it seems, a new camera or process can shake you out of that bland rut and reignite the passion, .. passion not hysteria. even still-lifers can have it.

[nik]

Does anyone know if it uses an AA filter?

[Sean Reginald Kn...]

Today, to all my clients, I am announcing a new style of photography for my portfolio. I haven't really perfected it, and I don't have it in my portfolio that I could Fedex to them today, but I have an idea of how I might actually perfect it. I will run ads in Archive and Communication Arts, announcing my idea for my new style that one day I might actually be able to show in my portfolio. Maybe by the end of 2009 or so, I might actually have shot one frame and have one print in my book with this new style. But it is vitally important that I announce it now, even though I have nothing concrete to show.

This announcement will make my clients feel certain about my ideas, even though I haven't really produced anything yet. But the most important thing is that I'm talking about my new style, even though I'm not really doing it.

This action today will make clients think good things about me, and my work style.

I can't really take jobs based on this style; maybe by Fall 2009. But the main thing is -- they are talking about me.

My marketing people tell me this is a solid approach to business, and to generating customer loyalty.

This is the Leica way, thus, it must be good.

The Don King School of Marketing.

[narikin]

then i remembered all that filter/magenta mess with the M camera, and I just bet, (as with version 1.0 of anything), there will be problems with the S Leica.

undoubtedly some teething problems, but with Phase behind it, there wont be the same mess as there was with the M8. I expect that (digital) bit to be very good.

to be honest, NONE of these cameras is very exciting to me. none of them. the canon works, but it's still got that 35 vibe to it. the H1 had that mirror slap; the Contax ate batteries and had a tiny dark viewfinder. i still want a camera that feels like a Mamiya 7 in my hands, but has a four inch LCD, and has a 645 frame proportion. (once I realized the Leica was still that awful 35 frame shape, that was the final dagger).

agreed Mamiya 7 amazing - we need the ZD2 badly with Phase input
agreed 35mm shape is an error on Leica part - its not a press camera - they made the mistake of keeping a 'traditional' format when they were claiming to be 'new'

also single point AF - a big disappointment- Leica just don't have the expertise to handle multi point AF and compete with the Japanese producers

This post has been edited by narikin: Sep 24 2008, 03:59 PM

[Snook]

undoubtedly some teething problems, but with Phase behind it, there wont be the same mess as there was with the M8. I expect that (digital) bit to be very good.
agreed Mamiya 7 amazing - we need the ZD2 badly with Phase input
agreed 35mm shape is an error on Leica part - its not a press camera - they made the mistake of keeping a 'traditional' format when they were claiming to be 'new'

also single point AF - a big disappointment- Leica just don't have the expertise to handle multi point AF and compete with the Japanese producers

Those so called Dentist better be buying a lot of HD's to back up all those pretty shot's of teeth..:+]
Snook

[Conner999]

Before anyone gets to excited about the Phase relationship:

Checkout the Leica interview on Calumet's website:

http://www.calumetphoto.co.uk/photokina?t=CM02&a=CM02

Well known Leica dealer David Farkas (Dale Photo) has an interesting blog from Photokina folks may want check out re: the deal and a hands-on with the S2 (looks sweet).

BUT, there is a LOT (and I mean a LOT) of apparent confusion and miscommunication surfacing between Leica's version of what is happening, Phase's version and each firm's communications to their respective dealer re: relationship:

- Phase indicates Phase tech inside, yet multiple Leica Execs openly state to various interviewers, dealers that it's 100% Leica, Phase relationship started after S2 fully developed and depth of relationship is still very nebulous.

- Phase understands exclusive sales channel, yet Leica (non-Phase) dealers advertising the S2 and taking pre-orders.

- It goes on...

There are also some threads on www.getdpi.com that also discuss/debate/express frustration over the issue.

I'd put a question mark beside the depth of the Phase involvement/support until better and more coherent information from both parties emerges.

This post has been edited by Conner999: Sep 24 2008, 04:51 PM

[Nick Walker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SyDAimzFnU - A decent Imaging Resource video from Photokina showing the size of the S2 and rear LCD.

http://www.s.leica-camera.com/ - flash presentation

http://dfarkas.blogspot.com/ detailed report - viewed DNG's in Lightroom from prototype. Also comments on the shutter/mirror noise. Shows it sat next to a Nikon D700 for size comparison.

This post has been edited by Nick Walker: Sep 24 2008, 06:09 PM

[rainer_v]

boy I thought still-life photographers were staid...

Look, I have not handled the camera so I am only a looker like the rest of us.. I have used their r9/dmr for the past 3 years and have found the camera the best 35mm camera I have ever shot with.. but I never said or would say it is "uncomparable" nor would I describe myself as "hysterical", as you are implying in your statement. 
I hope you have found in your career some equipment you have been really happy with, bonded with, tools which used day in and day out mold to you like a custom made leather shoe.. call me weird but I have an affinity with some of my cameras.. I still have a technika that I can't part with because it was part of my style at one time..more than just an optical devise to capture light.. it helped define me as a creative photographer and was an intregal part of the experience of photographing, something which is often lost in the day to day life of a commercial photographer shooting the same old box on white seamless or the same old box on the street corner.  As silly as it seems, a new camera or process can shake you out of that bland rut and reignite the passion, .. passion not hysteria.  even still-lifers can have it.

paul i was not referring my leica critic to you. sorry if i was implying this,- i even wasnt conscient that you shoot with a R9.
i used in my film days several leicas too, aside my linhof 4x5 and 6x17 cameras,- and i liked them a lot especially cause i liked their "feel". but there was some attitude in certain leica forums which was so elitist that i couldnt stand it.
btw.: similar than several months ago the one or other mf contra 35mm treat, there was some talk that a "real" professional or even a real quality demanding photographer needs to use mf tools for it, as if there wouldnt enough great photos shot with 35mm cameras, if thge photographer i a great one. ( beside the funny 35mm users who needed to convince themselves in 1000 posts that there is no need to use mf gear ). i hated all this attitudes and allways thought they are wrong, arrogant and stupid.
( pls. note that i am not referring to you or even to any of the active posters which are here in LL/ Mf at the moment - seems so that most of these guys already have found other places to enjoy.)

This post has been edited by rainer_v: Sep 24 2008, 06:21 PM

[paulmoorestudio]

paul i was not referring my leica critic  to you. sorry if i was implying this,- i even wasnt conscient that you shoot with a R9.
i used in my film days several leicas too, aside my linhof 4x5 and 6x17 cameras,- and i liked them a lot especially cause i liked their "feel".  but there was some attitude in certain leica forums which was so elitist that i couldnt stand it.
btw.: similar than several months ago the one or other mf contra 35mm treat, there was some talk that a "real" professional or even a real quality demanding photographer needs to use mf tools for it, as if there wouldnt enough great photos shot with 35mm cameras, if thge photographer i a great one. ( beside the funny  35mm users who needed to convince themselves in 1000 posts  that there is no need to use mf gear ). i hated all this  attitudes and allways thought they are wrong, arrogant and stupid.
( pls. note that  i am not referring to you or even to any of the active posters which are here in LL/ Mf at the moment - seems so that most of these guys already have found other places to enjoy.)

Okay, I misread you, seems that since I started shooting with leica I have heard way too much talk about only doctors and lawyers shoot with it..I have always came to the defense of the professional quality the camera has..and now it looks they have a real player in the professional market with the S2. I know a lot of guys have the m8 as a secondary camera but very few use it as their main camera system and in this day and age of AF the r9/dmr is oldschool.. but so am I and for a small camera, one you can easily hand hold, it suits me but I always had to go to my mfdb/ rolleiflex or xact if I needed something better..the S2 camera would make redundant the rolleiflex and r9/dmr. but I would still need a traditional view camera.

[eronald]

What is interesting is the degree of preparation of Leica at Photokina . The stand area Leica is occupying is huge. The S2 area is like a luxury clinic, with VIP backstage passes issued to you, smiling receptionists and a wait in a reception area with a drink until your personal demonstrator is free. This is clealry a first class professional PR operation.

Concerning the S2 itself, again the degree of preparation is considerable. The bodies don't look like prototypes, they feel like production models. The finish is impeccable. My impression is that mechanical tooling is in place, and the production line for the body mechanics and lens mechanics is being used already for what are called prototypes.

As for the product itself, pricing will be based on the equivalent Hasselblad (same MP) I am told. Lenses are still being developed, in particular a fast portrait lens. Leica definitely see this as a carry around camera, built for hard weather and knocks.

My own impression is that the camera and its lenses feel too large. This is not a lightweight by any standard. In the end, I think the S2 will stand or fall based on its high ISO ability, and the quality of the AF. In any case, I'm pretty sure that production is going to get ramped up competently, and the body price will be almost affordable.

Edmund

This post has been edited by eronald: Sep 25 2008, 05:28 PM

[thsinar]

I just wish to say as much:

Jenoptik has not "done so" for the Leica S2, which is a 100% Leica "in-house" development.

Best regards,
Thierry

Interestingly, Leica has also formed a "strategic alliance" with... Jenoptik! Jenoptik is supposed to assist with "development, integration, manufacturing and delivery of parts for digital image processing". And it sure looks that they have done so for this S2. So now the owner of the Hy6 and the owner of the missing back for that camera are both the supporting pillars of the company trying to make the product competing with MF systems. I cannot get my brain wrapped around it, yet.

The Jenoptik/Leica support-deal was announced last summer:
http://www.photoscala.de/Artikel/Leica-und...tik-kooperieren

[EPd]

I just wish to say as much:

Jenoptik has not "done so" for the Leica S2, which is a 100% Leica "in-house" development.

Best regards,
Thierry

Thierry,

If this is the case, what exactly does Leica need Jenoptik for?

And now that you are in clarification mode, would you please be so kind to comment on this posting of mine: http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....ndpost&p=224140

[thsinar]

Thierry,

If this is the case, what exactly does Leica need Jenoptik for?

EPd,

I guess this should be asked to Leica directly, isn't it? My role is to put things straight when somebody speaks about Jenoptik, especially if not right, not explaining Leica's needs and strategies.

And now that you are in clarification mode, would you please be so kind to comment on this posting of mine: http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....ndpost&p=224140

May be the same answer as above: ask F&H concerning your post. I have given the information I (Sinar) have about the different products available or to come.

Best regards,
Thierry

This post has been edited by thsinar: Sep 26 2008, 01:02 AM

[EricWHiss]

Maybe Leica is using Jenoptic's services for projects other than the S2? R10, lower priced rangefinder are just two projects rumored to be in the works. Could it also be possible that Leica did the design but needs help with manufacturing?

[EPd]

EPd,

I guess this should be asked to Leica directly, isn't it? My role is to put things straight when somebody speaks about Jenoptik, especially if not right, not explaining Leica's needs and strategies.
May be the same answer as above: ask F&H concerning your post. I have given the information I (Sinar) have about the different products available or to come.

Best regards,
Thierry

Thierry,

Let me rephrase my question then: what exactly is Jenoptik doing for Leica? (So I'm not asking what Leica wants, but what Jenoptik is offering.)

And as for my other question: does this cable release for the Sinar Hy6 have mirror lockup or not? You have it in your booth at Photokina, so perhaps you could simply check? I already know what F&H has to say, but I would rather not be in the way of your prerogatives here since the cable release does not actually come from F&H.

Have some nice days overthere in Cologne!

EPd

[thsinar]

Thierry,

Let me rephrase my question then: what exactly is Jenoptik doing for Leica?

EPd,

I have nothing to add to what I have said, otherwise I would have said it by now.

And as for my other question: does this cable release for the Sinar Hy6 have mirror lockup or not?

The cable does not have a classical mirror-lock-up, HOWEVER:

- when used in "ultra-fast mode", a push down locks the mirror up (and prepares all functions) and releasing the knob then releases the camera.
- in normal function, the cable release does activate the AF with the first push, then release.

Best regards,
Thierry

Have some nice days overthere in Cologne!

EPd

Thanks EPd, we do have very nice days, even if busy. Such an exhibition as Photokina is always a nice time, definitively, being it only to meet some people you have not seen for a long time.

Best regards,
Thierry

[Nemo]

From David Farkas' blog, about Hasselblad lenses:

I took a look at the new HCD 35-90mm f/4-5.6 zoom lens. Reading about the tech in this lens is interesting. It is only for use with “full frame 48mm” and the designers knowingly created the lens with increased distortion and vignetting. The new Hassy philosophy seems to be that we’ll just fix it in post, a la digital lens correction. Seems a bit fishy, especially at this price ($6,999 USD).

http://www.dfarkas.blogspot.com/

.

[gss]

From David Farkas' blog, about Hasselblad lenses:
http://www.dfarkas.blogspot.com/

.

I think people are forgetting that lens design requires balancing the distortions and aberrations that the laws of Physics dictate. Perhaps the designers of these lenses decided to allow more distortion, which they know they can correct in software, in order to better control another aberration they cannot correct.

[Guest_samuel_js_*]

David Farkas:

Speaking of fishy… in the pro demo studio area a photographer and food stylist were photographing smelly raw fish. With large LCD suspended from the ceiling for the audience to watch the action top-down it felt more like a cooking show that a photo demonstration. The concept was interesting, but the smell was a bit much.

Obviously this guy is an ignorant. Why do I say that? Because ignorants are so sure of their own truth that they don't even do a little research before they shot.

The fish thing is related to the video shooting (Operation Food) they have had on the Victor website for more than a year.

This type of practice is called good marketing.

This post has been edited by samuel_js: Sep 26 2008, 06:52 PM

[Sean Reginald Kn...]

Some Swedes do love their surstromming.