Leica's new MF system Options

[pete_truman]

These prices are getting out of hand - how on earth can a £800 (GBP) increase be justified for the M8.2 (current retail £3190, now £3990) - new shutter, new LCD protection, few tweaks to the firmware, new frame lines, a black dot instead of a white dot and no changes to the sensor? £6250 for the new Nocti?
Madness!

[James R Russell]

These prices are getting out of hand - how on earth can a £800 (GBP) increase be justified for the M8.2 (current retail £3190, now £3990) - new shutter, new LCD protection, few tweaks to the firmware, new frame lines, a black dot instead of a white dot and no changes to the sensor? £6250 for the new Nocti?
Madness!

If Leica wants this kind of money, they need to improve their quality control. I have one lens in for focus adjustment (and it's not slight it's about 3 feet in back focus) and they have had it for months.

I love the little m-8, and in spite of it's quirkiness on wb when used right it does produce a very nice file.

Given that, I would never go out and travel the world with just one or two bodies, I'd want three minimum because it just doesn't seem that robust.

£4,000 for a new m8 does seem high and since they are all over new york in demo and slightly used for $4,000 dollars I think I'd take one step back and go with the original.

For the lenses, look at Zeiss, because even though the Leica lenses are like holding little jewels the price is shocking.

JR

[SeanBK]

If Leica wants this kind of money, they need to improve their quality control.  I have one lens in for focus adjustment (and it's not slight it's about 3 feet in back focus) and they have had it for months.

I love the little m-8, and in spite of it's quirkiness on wb when used right it does produce a very nice file.

Given that, I would never go out and travel the world with just one or two bodies, I'd want three minimum because it just doesn't seem that robust.

£4,000 for a new m8 does seem high and since they are all over new york in demo and slightly used for $4,000 dollars I think I'd take one step back and go with the original.

For the lenses, look at Zeiss, because even though the Leica lenses are like holding little jewels the price is shocking.

JR

Well, they have new line of lens out...amazing in every aspect.
(1). World’s fastest asphercial lens, the NOCTILUX-M 50 mm f/0.95 ASPH. @ US$11,232.00
(2). SUMMILUX-M 21 mm f / 1.4 ASPH @ US$ 7125.
(3). SUMMILUX-M 24 mm f / 1.4 ASPH @ US$ 7125.
(4). Elmar-M 24 MM F / 3.8 ASPH Lens @ US$2464.

This post has been edited by SeanBK: Sep 15 2008, 12:15 PM

[Snook]

If Leica wants this kind of money, they need to improve their quality control.  I have one lens in for focus adjustment (and it's not slight it's about 3 feet in back focus) and they have had it for months.

I love the little m-8, and in spite of it's quirkiness on wb when used right it does produce a very nice file.

Given that, I would never go out and travel the world with just one or two bodies, I'd want three minimum because it just doesn't seem that robust.

£4,000 for a new m8 does seem high and since they are all over new york in demo and slightly used for $4,000 dollars I think I'd take one step back and go with the original.

For the lenses, look at Zeiss, because even though the Leica lenses are like holding little jewels the price is shocking.

JR

I never even shot a M8 but did hear several people wanting a little more megapixel in it and they did not change that at all apparently...
Why would that be...:+}
To bad there is not way of switching out sensors... that way buying the camera would not hurt so bad, but having to upgrade to a whole new camera all the time stinks.. would be great to have an M8 and you could just get the sensor swapped out when needed...:+]
I have the D-lux 3 and paid a little more than the Panasonic price b/c I wanted the red dot, but no way would I pay 1000 for it.
Apparently after reading around the Panasonic (L3) ,which is the same thing, seems to be quite the little Pocket camera, even beating out the Fuji series "supposedly".
The panasonic even makes an off camera flash which is also much cheaper than the leica and also the same...
I find it strange that a lot of people are wanting high sync with flash but no one seems to be changing that. I thought canon would have tried to change it but apparently it is not possible with CMOS sensors?
I remember that the CCD sensor that one of the first canons had, did sync at 500/th...:+]
Is Leaf going to be the only option for shooting highsync with flash... Even my RZ is only 400/th and not good for a lot of moveemnt type shot's for me..
Well maybe all for another thread..
Thanks
Snook

[foto-z]

I find it strange that a lot of people are wanting high sync with flash but no one seems to be changing that. I thought canon would have tried to change it but apparently it is not possible with CMOS sensors?

It's a problem associated with a large focal plane shutter, not the sensor.

Is Leaf going to be the only option for shooting highsync with flash...

Well there is Sinar's Hy6 too, and of course you could use a Rollei 6008 with a Sinar or Hasselblad back, or even the Phase One P20 and some other Phase backs. All these make 1/1000 sync possible. The Hasselblad H series offers 1/800 too.

[Snook]

It's a problem associated with a large focal plane shutter, not the sensor.
Well there is Sinar's Hy6 too, and of course you could use a Rollei 6008 with a Sinar or Hasselblad back, or even the Phase One P20 and some other Phase backs. All these make 1/1000 sync possible. The Hasselblad H series offers 1/800 too.

You are correct.. sorry I forgot about Hassleblad and Sinar...
Thanks
Snook

PS. Just a little frustrated as I already have Mamiya and Phase P30 and there seems to be no option there so far...
My Phase dealer seems to think they are going to announce the leafshutter lens here in Photokina..
I am sure the pricing will be real cheap so I can dig further into the bank account with no return on the money...at-least where I am at there is no return:+{
Snook

[James R Russell]

To bad there is not way of switching out sensors...

There are a lot of rumors about Leica.

One is the next upgrade will be to send your camera in for more than just a new lcd cover but a new sensor that might be full frame.

Whether that is true or not I don't know, but I like the idea of keeping the same camera and just upgrading it.

As far as the Leica slr everyone says that will eventually happen. Now if it happends in a Leica time frame or Canon time frame is another question that none of us can answer, though it does sound interesting.

Anway in regards to the M8 I hope the next sensor has higher iso, as anything over 400 on the leica is pretty noisy. It works but it looks like a snowstorm, though snowstorms can be pretty.

Still, you would think that the Leica which is really thought of as a PJ's camera would have higher iso capabilties.

Maybe the next one will.

JR

[eronald]

Well, you can pay $9000 and gain 4 or so stops
And the depth of field of a razor blade.

Edmund

There are a lot of rumors about Leica.

One is the next upgrade will be to send your camera in for more than just a new lcd cover but a new sensor that might be full frame.

Whether that is true or not I don't know, but I like the idea of keeping the same camera and just upgrading it.

As far as the Leica slr everyone says that will eventually happen.  Now if it happends in a Leica time frame or Canon time frame is another question that none of us can answer, though it does sound interesting.

Anway in regards to the M8 I hope the next sensor has higher iso, as anything over 400 on the leica is pretty noisy.  It works but it looks like a snowstorm, though snowstorms can be pretty.

Still, you would think that the Leica which is really thought of as a PJ's camera would have higher iso capabilties.

Maybe the next one will.

JR

[Dustbak]

I hate zooms too, big heavy things, if I want to shoot wide, I get a wide lens, I don't suddenly change my mind mid shot. If they took all that fancy tech they put into making good zooms into primes they could do something outstanding I'm sure. Anyone know who's promising new primes?

The Zeis ZF 28/2.0 is very high on my list (I already own most of the others). It is now also (directly) available in Canon mount. These are small and very well built lenses but manual focus.

The Nikkor 28/1.4 also seems a very good lens but discontinued and currently only available for obscene prices. Might be nice when this comes as an AFS VR version. Nikons 1.4 lenses are long overdue for an update and would be a nice add-on for D3 & D700 users.

This post has been edited by Dustbak: Sep 15 2008, 01:14 PM

[dustblue]

It's the shutter. Nikon D3 and D700 has a synce speed of 1/320th, which I think is the fastest among focal plane shutters.(And for this kind of synce speed we have to use better strobes like pro7 series or we'll have faded line in bottom of the image)

I find it strange that a lot of people are wanting high sync with flash but no one seems to be changing that. I thought canon would have tried to change it but apparently it is not possible with CMOS sensors?

[cyberean]

It's the shutter. Nikon D3 and D700 has a synce speed of 1/320th, which I think is the fastest among focal plane shutters.

that title belongs to the nikon d70, d50
and d40 with sync speed up to 1/500th.

(the two cameras you mentioned officially
sync up to 1/250th. though some have
successfully pushed them to 1/320th.)

[Dustbak]

Together with the D1 & D1x which also do 1/500th. A pity Nikon wasn't able to pull that off with the D3,D300 & D700.

[eronald]

I may be wrong, but I think the D1x had an electronic shutter - the mechanical shutter was used at a fixed speed above a certain speed.

Edmund

Together with the D1 & D1x which also do 1/500th. A pity Nikon wasn't able to pull that off with the D3,D300 & D700.

[Dustbak]

Can be but I used to have one which I could perfectly use at 1/500th with all sorts of strobes.

Later lines like the D200 could only sync at 1/250th and had an electronic gimmick to be able to shoot with much faster speeds (up to 1/8000th'ish I believe) together with several of the Nikon system flashes (SB800 & SB600 but probably with the SB900 as well). They call it FP (Focal plane) flashing. Maybe you are thinking about these?

This post has been edited by Dustbak: Sep 16 2008, 02:37 AM

[cyberean]

you are quite right about the d1 line-up (including the H).

and not only that (to further diverge from the OT) they
also supported a top speed to 1/16000.

[dustblue]

oh I really didn't know that...should be that they are aps-c format so the shutter is much smaller.
1/320th synce speed doesnt need a push, just the triggering time should be short enough(use sync cord instead of wireless trigger, or su4 mode from on camera flash) and the flash duration should be short enough( my test is that it needs a less than 1/1000sec duration,t01)

that title belongs to the nikon d70, d50
and d40 with sync speed up to 1/500th.

(the two cameras you mentioned officially
sync up to 1/250th.  though some have
successfully pushed them to 1/320th.)

[dustblue]

the shutter size is different. Full Frame shutter is bigger than aps-c's, I don't expect FF camera to have a 1/500th sync speed like I wont expect MF has a 1/250th sync speed(do they?).

Can be but I used to have one which I could perfectly use at 1/500th with all sorts of strobes.

Later lines like the D200 could only sync at 1/250th and had an electronic gimmick to be able to shoot with much faster speeds (up to 1/8000th'ish I believe) together with several of the Nikon system flashes (SB800 & SB600 but probably with the SB900 as well). They call it FP (Focal plane) flashing. Maybe you are thinking about these?

[geesbert]

One thing i like about my old Leica M6 is that it aged with charm. there is a beautiful patina to it, all made by my working with it. if it would be digital, i'd love to have the electronics updated every two years or so, but the appearance should be kept. a camera for life, electronics for now....

I have a nice serial number too, which i am sure helps me a lot in making better pictures and makes me a happier photographer and makes the sun shine brighter

why is the only camera i ever cared for the Leica m6? all other cameras are just tools...

[BJL]

that title belongs to the nikon d70, d50 and d40 with sync speed up to 1/500th.

(the two cameras you mentioned officially sync up to 1/250th.  though some have
successfully pushed them to 1/320th.)

That 1/500s sync uses electronic shuttering, possible on the first generation older Sony 6MP CCD, but not on any of the newer SLR sensors, either CCD or CMOS. Entry level models like the D40 clearly do not have FP shutters capable of moving at that speed.

The Olympus E-1 also syncs in practice to about 1/320th with non-dedicated flash units, though again the official spec. is lower. Smaller formats have some natural advantage in this respect: look at the low maximum sync. speed of MF bodies that rely on FP shutters.

[paulmoorestudio]

There are a lot of rumors about Leica.

One is the next upgrade will be to send your camera in for more than just a new lcd cover but a new sensor that might be full frame.

Whether that is true or not I don't know, but I like the idea of keeping the same camera and just upgrading it.

As far as the Leica slr everyone says that will eventually happen.  Now if it happends in a Leica time frame or Canon time frame is another question that none of us can answer, though it does sound interesting.

Anway in regards to the M8 I hope the next sensor has higher iso, as anything over 400 on the leica is pretty noisy.  It works but it looks like a snowstorm, though snowstorms can be pretty.

Still, you would think that the Leica which is really thought of as a PJ's camera would have higher iso capabilties.

Maybe the next one will.

JR

I think leica is about to reveal a new reflex option for us who work in medium format.. and I say option because one camera platform just doesn't cut it for most of us, and as much as I like the files of my bigger mf cameras I am looking forward to having something smaller yet able to produce great full spread ads..cropping allowed, bleed accounted for..and yes iso 800..
again, this might be wishful thinking but one can hope.