Leica's new MF system Options

[zView]

New Leica MF for photogrammetry:

http://www.leica-geosystems.com/corporate/...f/lgs_70929.htm

[PatrikR]

I think it's a terribly unfair to state that the MF prices are ridiculous. Of course 30.000 euros or even dollars is a lot of money but this is money invested into ones company and career. And who says you have to buy top of the line.

All the digital MF systems are highly specialized professional tools and cost money to make and design. If one factors in the cost involved with film then the digital back prices are quite reasonable for professional photographer even in small markets like Finland where the photography day rates are less what a digital tech makes in New York. Besides it's just amazing what kind of images they deliver.

My 2 cents

[woof75]

The Leica is good man.  It aint' a 1ds3, or a p anything, but it's good and worth the money.

It's the only 35 without a aa filter.

http://www.russellrutherford.com/final_leica.jpg

http://www.russellrutherford.com/1T/image/paris2bhv3449.jpg

JR

God, dare I ask James, how do you like the 1ds 3 compared to the 1ds 2?

[James R Russell]

God, dare I ask James, how do you like the 1ds 3 compared to the 1ds 2?

I bought one 1ds3 and tested it, sold the 1ds2s and will buy another 1ds3.

Everything from the 1ds2 that was ploblematic has been addressed on the 3.



JR

[woof75]

I bought one 1ds3 and tested it, sold the 1ds2s and will buy another 1ds3.

Everything from the 1ds2 that was ploblematic has been addressed on the 3.
JR

Cool, how about image quality, any change?

[JohnBrew]

I do have an M8 and have had zero problems. I know all the R fans are looking for something new and better in the pipeline. Personally, I would like to see a larger sensor that uses M glass. Or perhaps uses both M and R glass? Wouldn't that be great?

[James R Russell]

Cool, how about image quality, any change?

Higher iso is slightly better, file depth is slightly better, file size is much better, tethering is much better, lcd much better, menus 1 million times better, focus is better, more solid feel etc.

You can set in camera parameters even black and white. The black and white function is very cool.

Tethering, even usb is much improved. The Canon software is somewhat disjointed, but will do about everything that any software does, it just takes a new learning curve.

the preview time is fast. I saw reports where everybody said it was about 7 seconds for a raw file to preview but I see it in less than 1/2 of that in OSX.

The one standout is the viewfinder. For once manual focus is actually easy on this camera.

I put the 4:3 mask in and the viewfinder is still big.

File look is different than my phase backs, probably because of the AA filter. It starts out softer, though sharpens ok, though it's just different. Not bad different, just different.

It may be my imagination, but the camera seems just slightly smaller than the 1ds2 or slightly more compact. Other than the Leica, I'm not that wild about small cameras.

Given all of this it is the very well built camera and in a lot of ways reminds me of that robust feel of the contax, where it's solid and rattle free.

Regardless, if I could have a p back, especially the p21 that went to 800 iso clean, I would have gone that direction.

The Canons are interesting in that some people love them, some are the opposite, but nobody can dismiss how much of an impact they have on professional photography.

I wouldn't say it produces the best file in the world, (that's very subjective), but it is a very versitile camera.

JR

[vandevanterSH]

New Leica MF for photogrammetry:

http://www.leica-geosystems.com/corporate/...f/lgs_70929.htm

Are Leica-geosystems and Leica camera part of the same corporation?

Steve

[woof75]

Higher iso is slightly better, file depth is slightly better, file size is much better, tethering is much better, lcd much better, menus 1 million times better, focus is better, more solid feel etc.

You can set in camera parameters even black and white.  The black and white function is very cool.

Tethering, even usb is much improved.  The Canon software is somewhat disjointed, but will do about everything that any software does, it just takes a new learning curve.

the preview time is fast.  I saw reports where everybody said it was about 7 seconds for a raw file to preview but I see it  in less than 1/2 of that in OSX.

The one standout is the viewfinder.  For once manual focus is actually easy on this camera.

I put the 4:3 mask in and the viewfinder is still big.

File look  is different than my phase backs, probably because of the AA filter.  It starts out softer, though sharpens ok, though it's just different.  Not bad different, just different.

It may be my imagination, but the camera seems just slightly smaller than the 1ds2 or slightly more compact.  Other than the Leica, I'm not that wild about small cameras.

.
Given all of this it is the very well built camera and in a lot of ways reminds me of that robust feel of the contax, where it's solid and rattle free.

Regardless, if I could have a p back, especially the p21 that went to 800 iso clean, I would have gone that direction.

The Canons are interesting in that some people love them, some are the opposite, but nobody can dismiss how much of an impact they have on professional photography.

I wouldn't say it produces the best file in the world, (that's very subjective), but it is a very versitile camera.

JR

Sounds nice. I wish I didn't prefer the look of the P21 files to the canons as it would make my life a lot more pleasant as they are lovely things.

[johnkraus]

Tethering, even usb is much improved.  The Canon software is somewhat disjointed, but will do about everything that any software does, it just takes a new learning curve.
the preview time is fast.  I saw reports where everybody said it was about 7 seconds for a raw file to preview but I see it  in less than 1/2 of that in OSX.
JR

If you use Boot Camp on a Mac and install Windows XP, Canon Software and MacDrive 7, tethering RAW files screams in speed, and image files go into a folder on the Mac side. This because USB in Windows is so much faster at the moment.
I resisted, being a Mac guy, but it's not hard to install, and easy to run.

[Nemo]

Are Leica-geosystems and Leica camera part of the same corporation?

Steve

No, they aren't.

Leitz Corporation was separated in three different companies years ago: Leica Microsystems (actual owner of the brand "Leica"); Leica Geosystems; and Leica Camera.

Leica Geosystems belongs to a big multinational company.

Leica Microsystems is in Wetzlar, the original town of the Leitz company. Leica Camera is in Solms, at just 7 kilometers from Wetzlar. There are plans for building a gigant industrial park in Wetzlar for Leica Camera and other associated companies, so Leica Camera and Leica Microsystems will be again in the same town (although they are different companies).

[BJL]

I will wait till Photokina 2008 to see how accurate the web-forum sources are, but I suppose there is a market there worth pursuing: a system based around a format between 36x24 and 56x42, including lenses lens mount, viewfinders and metering systems all designed for that format could
- offer an alternative in the huge price gap between 36x24 and anything close to full 56x42
- work better than 44x33 or 48x36 backs used with lenses and lens mounts designed for 56x42 or 56x56
- avoid head-on competition with the strengths of Canon and Nikon.

Maybe an SLR-style body (a smaller Pentax 67) with a 44x33mm Kodak sensor with the new 6 micron cell size and micro-lenses for better low light performance. That would have 7333x5500 pixels (40MP), enough for most MF users in this forum it seems. Or maybe start out using the current 31MP 44x33 Kodak sensor with microlenses; that could be cheaper as an older, "amortized" product and still meet the often stated 30MP requirement.


There would I suppose course be a futile debate as to whether this is Full Frame in a new format, less than Full Frame by comparison to 645 systems, or more than Full Frame by comparison to 35mm systems. But it would be hard to call it a "crop format system" while calling 36x24 systems Full Frame!

[Mike W]

I put the 4:3 mask in and the viewfinder is still big.

JR

I didn't know these existed. Canon-branded or third party? Or DIY?

[John_Black]

I have not used these, but I think this is what James was referring to:

For the 5D: Canon Crop Focus Screens

For the 1D: Canon Crop Focus Screens

For the 1Ds: Canon Crop Focus Screens

[flashfredrikson]

I've just seen it: Leica hooked up with Yashica, bringing the contax back to life. All those nice and fast lenses ( a new 100 1.8 will be available next week) and they will also have leaf shutter lenses (a 50, a 80, a 100 and a 150) ready for delivery at the kina. I like their two new backs as well, the little one with 22mp and a 48x36 chip and the big full frame 645 one with 35 mp, nice as they go to 1600 and 800 asa, quite clean with very little, filmgrain like noise. Believe it or not, they just ripped out IPod touch screens and build them into their backs, awesome, just like Mr. Russel suggested! They easily connect via fw400 to your mac (sorry, macs only) and you can either shoot dng with a little tool to lightroom or aperture, or just use capture one as they also teamed up with phase again. You can either transfer both the raw and the jpg via cable when tethered or just transfer jpgs or raws and write the other one to the cf card. You can even use icc profiles in your back to apply your look to the jpgs and previews of the raws. When shoting to card only, you better say cards, as the back has two cf slots, nikon style. Of course the backs have changeable mounts, so no problem hookin em up to your rz, hasselblad 500 (for the v series and the rz, the adapter also can be rotated), h1 and h2, mamiya 645 and even bronica and rolleis but leica also decided not to support closed systems, what a pitty for all h3 and afi/hy6 users...
just when that leica guy wanted to tell me about the low price, i woke up...


cheers,
martin


ps: sorry no wireless jpgs yet, as leica is quite a green company they don't want to be part of microwaving the world.

[Mike W]

edit- sorry, forgot how to read....

I've just seen it: Leica hooked up with Yashica, bringing the contax back to life. All those nice and fast lenses ( a new 100 1.8 will be available next week) and they will also have leaf shutter lenses (a 50, a 80, a 100 and a 150) ready for delivery  at the kina. I like their two new backs as well, the little one with 22mp and a 48x36 chip and the big full frame 645 one with 35 mp, nice as they go to 1600 and 800 asa, quite clean with very little, filmgrain like noise. Believe it or not, they just ripped out IPod touch screens and build them into their backs, awesome, just like Mr. Russel suggested! They easily connect via fw400 to your mac (sorry, macs only) and you can either shoot dng with a little tool to lightroom or aperture, or just use capture one as they also teamed up with phase again. You can either transfer both the raw and the jpg via cable when tethered or just transfer jpgs or raws and write the other one to the cf card. You can even use icc profiles in your back to apply your look to the jpgs and previews of the raws. When shoting to card only, you better say cards, as the back has two cf slots, nikon style. Of course the backs have changeable mounts, so no problem hookin em up to your rz, hasselblad 500 (for the v series and the rz, the adapter also can be rotated), h1 and h2, mamiya 645 and even bronica and rolleis but leica also decided not to support closed systems, what a pitty for all h3 and afi/hy6 users...
just when that leica guy wanted to tell me about the low price, i woke up...
cheers,
martin
ps: sorry no wireless jpgs yet, as leica is quite a green company they don't want to be part of microwaving the world.

This post has been edited by Mike W: Aug 8 2008, 05:00 PM

[Nemo]

I will wait till Photokina 2008 to see how accurate the web-forum sources are, but I suppose there is a market there worth pursuing: a system based around a format between 36x24 and 56x42, including lenses lens mount, viewfinders and metering systems all designed for that format could
- offer an alternative in the huge price gap between 36x24 and anything close to full 56x42
- work better than 44x33 or 48x36 backs used with lenses and lens mounts designed for 56x42 or 56x56
- avoid head-on competition with the strengths of Canon and Nikon.

Maybe an SLR-style body (a smaller Pentax 67) with a 44x33mm Kodak sensor with the new 6 micron cell size and micro-lenses for better low light performance. That would have 7333x5500 pixels (40MP), enough for most MF users in this forum it seems. Or maybe start out using the current 31MP 44x33 Kodak sensor with microlenses; that could be cheaper as an older, "amortized" product and still meet the often stated 30MP requirement.
There would I suppose course be a futile debate as to whether this is Full Frame in a new format, less than Full Frame by comparison to 645 systems, or more than Full Frame by comparison to 35mm systems. But it would be hard to call it a "crop format system" while calling 36x24 systems Full Frame!

I agree with you, and I also think it will be a new format similar to 36x48 (maybe a bit smaller). Smaller bodies, faster lenses... Hasselblad and Mamiya are hooked to 645 format, for which their systems are designed (including lenses), and the Hy6 to the 6x6 format. Smaller sensors are cropped sensors.

Leica has an opportunity to offer something different. The price is the key variable.

[BJNY]

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp...essage=28828904

....Last week, a Pro photographer friend told me of a medium format Leica camera he'd been shown - one bearing a striking similarity to the discontinued Contax 645. Could it be that Leica are going into Medium Format? And if so, might they resurrect the Contax 645?.....

Would be GREAT if if were to happen....

[klane]

Stranger things have happened, more power to leica if they pull it off.

[eronald]

I bought one 1ds3 and tested it, sold the 1ds2s and will buy another 1ds3.

Everything from the 1ds2 that was ploblematic has been addressed on the 3.
JR

Not quite, James. I did some of my own testing too. The static focus wasn't as good as it should be - RG agrees with me. Skin tone issues of the 1Ds2 have been addressed but not quite fixed.

On the other hand, the 1Ds3 is spectacularly lighter than the 2, color is better, batteries last forever, and the finder is heavenly.

Edmund