Leica's new MF system Options

[Anthony R]

"Dentists and Outgoing CEO's unite! Come to the front of the line -- do WE have a camera for YOU!"

echo +rental houses

[Quentin]

Roll on the rumoured Nikon MX format camera.

Quentin

[bradleygibson]

I'm thinking their ergonomics dept. got better between the S1 & S2...

http://photo.net/leica-rangefinders-forum/00GqzV

[John Camp]

The price is critical.

If it has the crop ability of the Nikon D3 -- the ability to use DX lenses on an FX camera in a crop mode -- so that you can use R lenses (with an adapter) on the Leica, as essentially a full-frame Leica R, allowing you to buy the MF lenses later, that would help a lot of people -- and it should be doable, unless there a problem with the lens mount that wouldn't allow an adapter. A crop mode would also help in the sense that you could buy a cheaper and older R as a disaster back-up camera, rather than buying two S2s.

The fact that it is weather-sealed could be significant for some shooters, especially those who do outdoor ocean and desert fashion/automotive shoots.

But I gotta bad feeling -- that the price is going to be exorbitant ($20,000 euros is exorbitant) and that ninety percent of their market could go with the new Nikon, which I don't believe is a rumor.

JC

[timhurst]

"Dentists and Outgoing CEO's unite! Come to the front of the line -- do WE have a camera for YOU!"

Pah, this camera is for Batman only!

The design of this thing is stunning.

[rainer_v]

The price is critical.

If it has the crop ability of the Nikon D3 -- the ability to use DX lenses on an FX camera in a crop mode -- so that you can use R lenses (with an adapter) on the Leica, as essentially a full-frame Leica R, allowing you to buy the MF lenses later, that would help a lot of people -- and it should be doable, unless there a problem with the lens mount that wouldn't allow an adapter. A crop mode would also help in the sense that you could buy a cheaper and older R as a disaster back-up camera, rather than buying two S2s.

The fact that it is weather-sealed could be significant for some shooters, especially those who do outdoor ocean and desert fashion/automotive shoots.

But I gotta bad feeling -- that the price is going to be exorbitant ($20,000 euros is exorbitant) and that ninety percent of their market could go with the new Nikon, which I don't believe is a rumor.

JC

i am pretty sure that you cant use 35mm lenses for shorter distance between lens and mirror, whih has to be larger ona larger sensor.

[EricWHiss]

According to this guy on the LUG there will be an adapter to use the R lenses on the S2.... If true then that's some good news. See below....

From: Charlie Chan

I met Dr Kaufmann at the Goodwood Revival motorsport meeting in the UK
on Friday and Saturday. He espied my DMR and 280/4 APO and came to
have a chat. I noticed his M8 and said how disappointed I was with the
shutter noise. He said he had a M8.2 and would I like to try it - very
quiet. He was a really nice guy and committed to Leica and their
cameras. We had a chat about future developments and said that the R10
is real and will be announced next fall. There will be an adapter in
the meantime for using R lenses on the new S mount, but this will come
later.

Charlie

[lance_schad]

interesting!

sounds amazing. ISO1600 at full resolution of 60MP or at half or fourth the resolution?

1600iso will result in a 15MP file.

Lance Schad
Capture Integration - Miami/Atlanta
Direct: 305-534-5701 x1 | Cell: 305-394-3196
Capture Integration
lance@captureintegration.com

[James R Russell]

1600iso will result in a 15MP file.

Lance Schad
Capture Integration - Miami/Atlanta
Direct: 305-534-5701 x1 | Cell: 305-394-3196
Capture Integration
lance@captureintegration.com

So is a CLEAN iso 800 a 30mpx file?

Thx.

JR

[heinrichvoelkel]

I'm wondering where Phase One is heading.

They seem to be all over the place....russian Hartblei lenses for the Phase One camera....65 MP for the top...and now selling Leica S2 as well ....to Wim Wenders (damn I was thinking he is going to shoot his next movie on a 5dMKII)

I dont get it!


@ Lance : If I walk into your shop next summer and I'm a fashion/portraitshooter, what will you sell me? A cheapo MamiyaPhase 30+ or a S2? (Don't get me wrong, just asking/curious)

This post has been edited by heinrichvoelkel: Sep 22 2008, 04:43 PM

[dougpetersonci]

As-we-get-it news is being posted to our website's front page: CaptureIntegration.com

Doug Peterson
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer
Personal Portfolio

This post has been edited by dougpetersonci: Sep 22 2008, 04:14 PM

[tho_mas]

1600iso will result in a 15MP file.

Thanks Lance!
That's what I've expected. But... ISO1600 in 15MP are still very good (if the high ISO is really good).
Nevertheless the binning thing /scalable pixelsize and the upgradeable chip are the most interessting news to me personally amongst everything that has been announced the least weeks.

This post has been edited by tho_mas: Sep 22 2008, 04:24 PM

[GBPhoto]

Curious about a few things...
It's smaller than a 1Ds & D3,
Will take R lenses,
Has a 30x45mm sensor,

How's that mirror going to fit?

Twice as fast as an H3D39 - 2fps?

Only 1 AF spot?

[lance_schad]

Thanks Lance!
That's what I've expected. But... ISO1600 in 15MP are still very good (if the high ISO is really good).
Nevertheless the binning thing /scalebale pixelsize and the upgradeable chip are the most interessting news to me personally amongst everything that has been announced the least weeks.

I think all of the info that is coming from Phase One is very positive.
Phase One is aligning themselves with existing manufacturers to enhance their existing and or new offerings and combining it with Phase One's knowledge/intellectual property and value added distribution channels.

Phase One is also not leaving any of their supported platforms (bodies) behind either. With Capture One Pro when released will have their Lens+ technology which does not only correct for CA/Purple Fringing (today), but will do lens geometry as well not just for Phase One/Mamiya lenses, but Hasselblad and Contax lenses as well (from what I understand from what was explained to me this morning)

As far as what system I will sell to you Heinrich if you walk into my office and are a fashion/portraitshooter next summer it will all depend on what is actually available at the time, your budget and what features you will need. So lets cross that bridge when we come to it.

More news out of Photokina cannot come quick enough!!!

Lance Schad
Capture Integration - Miami/Atlanta
Direct: 305-534-5701 x1 | Cell: 305-394-3196
Capture Integration
lance@captureintegration.com

[Streetshooter]

"Dentists and Outgoing CEO's unite! Come to the front of the line -- do WE have a camera for YOU!"

Hey, I'm neither of those. Does that mean I can't have one ? Mind you at the quoted price it's going to be mostly be used to take pictures of Aunt Ethel and the cat by the said Dentist's and CEO's.

It's a pity that it's not going to be priced so that it's within reach of most people that want one. It's the best designed camera I've ever set my eyes on and Leica lenses are just simply the best.

Now if Nikon can make an MX that looks that good things could get really interesting.

[gwhitf]

echo +rental houses

Do you sometimes get the feeling that we're nearing that time where the business model of still photographers is more like filmmakers? Where nobody owns their own gear -- everything is rented for the job? Maybe we'd each own a 5DII for location scouting and talent casting, but the day before the job, everyone heads to TREC or FotoCare for the real camera?

With depreciation on this stuff so extreme, any BeanCounter would think you were nuts to buy one, especially if you could bill the rental. It's no fun to take a big hit. So buy with extreme care. I'd say, by the time these Leicas are shipping, and the bugs are worked out, we'll be reading about the NEXT photokina. So the day you actually take delivery on the S2, and get it in your hands, the next one will be announced, and your one-day old camera is worth pennies on the dollar, uh, Euro.

These people get their business models from AA and Drugs on the Playground. I recommend to everyone -- revolt against this practice of "announce one year, and ship the next", when the prices are so extreme. It starts with you. Draw up your own official-looking Contract and whip it out right before you sign your name on that check, and let the Contract state that they'll write you a check for the difference in what the camera is actually worth on the street, when the software is right, and the bugs are worked out. And then when they won't, then leave the boxes on the counter, and turn and walk away.

This post has been edited by gwhitf: Sep 22 2008, 04:58 PM

[Raphael]

Do you sometimes get the feeling that we're nearing that time where the business model of still photographers is more like filmmakers? Where nobody owns their own gear -- everything is rented for the job? Maybe we'd each own a 5DII for location scouting and talent casting, but the day before the job, everyone heads to TREC or FotoCare for the real camera?

With depreciation on this stuff so extreme, any BeanCounter would think you were nuts to buy one, especially if you could bill the rental. It's no fun to take a big hit. So buy with extreme care. I'd say, by the time these Leicas are shipping, and the bugs are worked out, we'll be reading about the NEXT photokina. So the day you actually take delivery on the S2, and get it in your hands, the next one will be announced, and your one-day old camera is worth pennies on the dollar, uh, Euro.

These people get their business models from AA and Drugs on the Playground. I recommend to everyone -- revolt against this practice of "announce one year, and ship the next", when the prices are so extreme. It starts with you. Draw up your own official-looking Contract and whip it out right before you sign your name on that check, and let the Contract state that they'll write you a check for the difference in what the camera is actually worth on the street, when the software is right, and the bugs are worked out. And then when they won't, then leave the boxes on the counter, and turn and walk away.

I second to that, by all means, and today more than ever, 20,000 euros is a lot of dough....

[eronald]

Whenever this thing hits the street, I'll gladly exchange my Mamiya P45+ for one. Good lenses and AF sound like a nice idea.

I don't antcipate that to happen too soon though. In fact, Leaf/Sinar and Hassy might decide that building a similar smaller sensor into their models allows them to break the $10K price barrier. And Sinar has some pretty nice lenses

Edmund

[Anthony R]

Do you sometimes get the feeling that we're nearing that time where the business model of still photographers is more like filmmakers? Where nobody owns their own gear -- everything is rented for the job? Maybe we'd each own a 5DII for location scouting and talent casting, but the day before the job, everyone heads to TREC or FotoCare for the real camera?

With depreciation on this stuff so extreme, any BeanCounter would think you were nuts to buy one, especially if you could bill the rental. It's no fun to take a big hit. So buy with extreme care. I'd say, by the time these Leicas are shipping, and the bugs are worked out, we'll be reading about the NEXT photokina. So the day you actually take delivery on the S2, and get it in your hands, the next one will be announced, and your one-day old camera is worth pennies on the dollar, uh, Euro.

These people get their business models from AA and Drugs on the Playground. I recommend to everyone -- revolt against this practice of "announce one year, and ship the next", when the prices are so extreme. It starts with you. Draw up your own official-looking Contract and whip it out right before you sign your name on that check, and let the Contract state that they'll write you a check for the difference in what the camera is actually worth on the street, when the software is right, and the bugs are worked out. And then when they won't, then leave the boxes on the counter, and turn and walk away.

Yes. I was speaking a few weeks ago, at a dinner party, with a leasing agent for digital backs in NY and he explained to me that the prices are pretty much made, in his opinion, for the rental houses. They get a bulk discount and very attractive lease terms. This allows them to make their lease payment on each back with only 2 rentals a month or so - everything else is gravy. There is some sort of buy back or embargo period on the resale of those heavily used backs or the option of course to just trade up to the next latest and greatest. I've forgotten the details but basically, DBs priced not to own. And, those landscape shooters (dentists, former dentists, and the like, etc) who never make a dime on their work anyway but don't care because they already have a porsche AND a Harley.

[bcooter]

I think all of the info that is coming from Phase One is very positive.
Phase One is aligning themselves with existing manufacturers to


lance@captureintegration.com

lance,

wow.

lots of news. i didn't think medium format had it in them to make so many changes and deals.

new leicas, medium format backs with 1600 iso, new lenses, variable resolution sensors. wow.

then I stop and re read the press releases.

60mpx backs for $45,000 u.s. and the same cell phone lcd.

1,600 iso but it's only 15mpx. a 5ds2 has 21mpx at 1600 iso, sells for $3,000 and shoots high def video.

new medium format lenses but only two with leaf shutters and one made from old russian spy glass.

a new bigger than 35mm leica but 20.000 euro and we don't know the prices of the lenses yet.

a strategic alliance with microsoft.

at least we have value added service. whew!

so, as much as I hope this all works out for phase, leica, mamiya, bill gates and the ex-soviets, we won't know the real outcome until it is actually used by bill paying photographers.

that is if they have any money left to pay the bills.

wow.


big cooter