Leica's new MF system Options

[lance_schad]

Looks like the 75-150 D lens.

I think that Photo was just trying to focus on the vertical grip. It was a snapshot that was sent to us.

Lance Schad
Capture Integration - Miami/Atlanta
Direct: 305-534-5701 x1 | Cell: 305-394-3196
Capture Integration
lance@captureintegration.com

[Snook]

I agree with Rogan.  Let's don't put rich cats in suits telling us they "talked" to professional photographers so they could make the best camera in the world".  Put these things in the hands of people that shoot for a living and let them knock the paint off of em.  Then they'll know what is really needed.

That is something that Nikon and Canon are very good at.  They put their early pre production cameras out there in working situations, way before they ever go on sale.

James are you trying to get them to send you a free one again...:+}

I do agree with you though.

Snook

[TechTalk]

According to Capture Integration...

"Phase One & Leica Form Strategic Alliance
The just-announced medium-format Leica S2 will feature sensor, software, and firmware developed by the experienced engineers of Phase One and will be distributed exclusively through Phase One channels."
http://www.captureintegration.com/

According to David Farkas (who attended the Leica VIP launch event of the S2)...

"So what’s the deal with Phase One? The truth is that I’m not sure, right now (and neither is Leica or Phase). The S2 was developed 100% in-house. Leica is very proud of this. The hardware engineering to the optics to the firmware was all done in Germany. With the Phase deal, the S2 will shoot tethered into C1, which is nice, but they certainly didn’t create this product – Leica did. There was mention of Phase dealers carrying the camera, in addition to Leica dealers, but this is not certain right now. Time will tell.." http://dfarkas.blogspot.com/

And the real story? As Mr. Farkas says, time will tell. As a side note, just because two companies have a "strategic alliance" does not mean that one company is developing the other's products. Phase One has a strategic alliance with Microsoft, but I don't believe that Microsoft's experienced engineers are producing major portions of Capture One software or that Phase One is a lead developer of Vista.

You can sort out the "truth" among the active posters here. I'm overloaded with other obligations.

[BrianSmith]

Will this make a CLOSED SYSTEM??? But I guess since it is Phase One back, so all those PHASE PHANS/clients who bitched moaned endlessly for Hasselblad H3 system, don't recognize the trend.

Dude, it's not closed system - it's a camera.

It doesn't use a PhaseOne back or any other - it's a camera.

[ynp]

According to Capture Integration...

"Phase One & Leica Form Strategic Alliance
The just-announced medium-format Leica S2 will feature sensor, software, and firmware developed by the experienced engineers of Phase One and will be distributed exclusively through Phase One channels."
http://www.captureintegration.com/

According to David Farkas (who attended the Leica VIP launch event of the S2)...

"So whats the deal with Phase One? The truth is that Im not sure, right now (and neither is Leica or Phase). The S2 was developed 100% in-house. Leica is very proud of this. The hardware engineering to the optics to the firmware was all done in Germany. With the Phase deal, the S2 will shoot tethered into C1, which is nice, but they certainly didnt create this product  Leica did. There was mention of Phase dealers carrying the camera, in addition to Leica dealers, but this is not certain right now. Time will tell.."  http://dfarkas.blogspot.com/

And the real story? As Mr. Farkas says, time will tell. As a side note, just because two companies have a "strategic alliance" does not mean that one company is developing the other's products. Phase One has a strategic alliance with Microsoft, but I don't believe that Microsoft's experienced engineers are producing major portions of Capture One software or that Phase One is a lead developer of Vista.

You can sort out the "truth" among the active posters here. I'm overloaded with other obligations.

And what was the meaning of the Leica-Jenoptik relationship?
Yevgeny

[foto-z]

And what was the meaning of the Leica-Jenoptik relationship?
Yevgeny

I was wondering the same. That was announced 3 months ago, iirc.

[EPd]

According to Capture Integration...

"Phase One & Leica Form Strategic Alliance
The just-announced medium-format Leica S2 will feature sensor, software, and firmware developed by the experienced engineers of Phase One and will be distributed exclusively through Phase One channels."
http://www.captureintegration.com/

According to David Farkas (who attended the Leica VIP launch event of the S2)...

"So what’s the deal with Phase One? The truth is that I’m not sure, right now (and neither is Leica or Phase). The S2 was developed 100% in-house. Leica is very proud of this. The hardware engineering to the optics to the firmware was all done in Germany. With the Phase deal, the S2 will shoot tethered into C1, which is nice, but they certainly didn’t create this product – Leica did. There was mention of Phase dealers carrying the camera, in addition to Leica dealers, but this is not certain right now. Time will tell.."  http://dfarkas.blogspot.com/

And the real story? As Mr. Farkas says, time will tell. As a side note, just because two companies have a "strategic alliance" does not mean that one company is developing the other's products. Phase One has a strategic alliance with Microsoft, but I don't believe that Microsoft's experienced engineers are producing major portions of Capture One software or that Phase One is a lead developer of Vista.

You can sort out the "truth" among the active posters here. I'm overloaded with other obligations.

Interestingly, Leica has also formed a "strategic alliance" with... Jenoptik! Jenoptik is supposed to assist with "development, integration, manufacturing and delivery of parts for digital image processing". And it sure looks that they have done so for this S2. So now the owner of the Hy6 and the owner of the missing back for that camera are both the supporting pillars of the company trying to make the product competing with MF systems. I cannot get my brain wrapped around it, yet.

The Jenoptik/Leica support-deal was announced last summer:
http://www.photoscala.de/Artikel/Leica-und...tik-kooperieren

[ynp]

". And it sure looks that they have done so for this S2. So now the owner of the Hy6 and the owner of the missing back for that camera are both the supporting pillars of the company trying to make the product competing with MF systems. I cannot get my brain wrapped around it, yet.

The Jenoptik/Leica support-deal was announced last summer:
http://www.photoscala.de/Artikel/Leica-und...tik-kooperieren

The Sinar 65 and the new Leica are the only MF systems with DNG +Jpeg recording, Phase one does not offer dual recording in their newest backs. Does it mean that Leica has an imaging unit developed by Jenoptik?
Yevgeny

This post has been edited by ynp: Sep 23 2008, 04:43 PM

[EPd]

Yes.

[Geoffreyg]

As to these relationships -

Consider the possibility that Leica is working with Jenoptik for the internals (makes sense - lots of experience there) and with Phase C1 for the reading of the file - which was nicely done with the M8 for color quality.

Why not?

Geoff

[Nemo]

That lens line-up is very impressive!
Summarit-S 70mm f/2.5 CS ASPH

Summarit-S 35mm f/2.5 CS ASPH

APO-Macro-Summarit-S 120mm f/2.5 CS

APO-Elmar-S 180mm f/3.5 CS

These four lenses will be the first to launch, simultaneously with the camera. The next grouping of lenses will come a few months later.

Elmarit-S 24mm f/2.8 ASPH

APO-Tele-Elmar-S 350mm f/3.5

Vario-Elmar-S 30-90mm f/3.5 ASPH

Elmar-S 30mm f/3.5 Tilt-Shift

Elmarit-S 100mm f/3.5 ASPH

The performance of these new lenses is being heralded as reference class optics with no measurable distortion or vignetting anywhere in the frame, and no software correction needed to optimize the performance. This last part is a certain jab at Hasselblad. MTF charts of these lenses are supposedly totally flat with no drop. Obviously Leica is doing what they do best – making the best optics in the world.
I would love to see the price list!

Cheers,
Willem.

Erwin Puts has some comments about the new lenses:

http://www.imx.nl/photo/Analysis/page119/page119.html

The camera body, interesting as this is, does not show truly remarkable features. The lenses on the other hand are very innovative. The high speed of 2.5 is a direct poke in the eye of the classical Hasselblad lens system that starts at 2.8. The medium format lenses are generally weak in the close range performance and the contrast at finer detail definition. The new Leica CS lens line offers excellent image quality at close range and have very high MTF values at 60 lp/mm, sometimes even better than what you get with the current M-lenses. When you combine the lens quality with the sensor size and pixel count, you may expect superior performance.

.

This post has been edited by Nemo: Sep 23 2008, 07:16 PM

[BrianSmith]

This post has been edited by BrianSmith: Sep 23 2008, 09:18 PM

[snickgrr]

Leica also needs to get their stuff back in the rental houses. I tried to rent something in the spring and could not find one place in the US that still carried it. Even contacted LeicaUS to see if they knew of a place.
Nada.

This post has been edited by snickgrr: Sep 23 2008, 09:24 PM

[Guest_yaya_*]

As to these relationships -

Consider the possibility that Leica is working with Jenoptik for the internals (makes sense - lots of experience there) and with Phase C1 for the reading of the file - which was nicely done with the M8 for color quality.

Why not?

Geoff

Checkout the Leica interview on Calumet's website

[James R Russell]

James are you trying to get them to send you a free one again...:+}

I do  agree with you though.

Snook

There is no free in the land of digital medium format. For dslrs Nikon is good a loaning stuff, especially if the project warrants it.

Still, looking at those photokina web videos, they would all have a lot more validty if they showed some beautiful photogrpahs from the cameras rather than have a PR guy just talk about it.

In fact speaking of talk, the Leica is produced completely in house, though Jenoptik did the digital part, Phase is the "strategic alliance and software part" but it is completely in-house?

PR guys!


JR

[mcfoto]

Checkout the Leica interview on Calumet's website

Hi
I have looked at this camera design & I see one glaring problem, the screen. Not the size but too me they have left a lot of the functions on the screen, this is OK in the studio or dull light but not in bright sunlight. For example I was working with the 1dsMKIII outside in the bright Sydney sunlight the other day & I could not see the screen outside to make any judgement calls, ie exposure (If they have the iso on the screen with the Leica you have a BIG problem). With the Canon this is not a problem as you have other readable screens & many other dials & wheels. Personally the Canon is a dream to work with. Why did Leica go with a CCD sensor???????? Why not a CMOS which would give you higher ISOs. If the price is $10000.00 (body) & $2500.00 USD for the lenses I think they have a good chance to get market share. MFD digital is 36x48mm & with the new Phase back the chip is 41x54mm. Now this chip (Leica) is 30x45mm & yes it is bigger than the 24x36mm chip in Canon, Nikon & Sony. So the Leica sits in the middle between 35D & MFD. I am glad that they went with USB. When USB 3.0 comes out it will be 4.8 MP/S & is a far better connection than FW. I have said this before & even mentioned this to a Phase rep since they have a close relationship with Mamiya is to work together & come out with the ZDII camera. The camera is already built with lenses ready to go. Why not put in a 39MP chip (36X48) or get a large CMOS sensor into the ZD body. Surely with Phase & Mamiya working together they could build a much better & updated version of the ZD camera.

Denis

This post has been edited by mcfoto: Sep 24 2008, 09:07 AM

[eronald]

Mamiya is to work together & come out with the ZDII camera. The camera is already built with lenses ready to go. Why not put in a 39MP chip (36X48) or get a large CMOS sensor into the ZD body. Surely with Phase & Mamiya working together they could build a much better & updated version of the ZD camera.

Denis

So, where is it ?

Anything not announced at Photokina is not anywhere near production.

Edmund

[mcfoto]

So, where is it ?

Anything not announced at Photokina is not anywhere near production.

Edmund

Hi
There is no production of the ZDII. I just mentioned to a Phase rep that it would be a good idea since they have a close relationship?
Denis

[BernardLanguilli...]

If the price is $10000.00 (body) & $2500.00 USD for the lenses I think they have a good chance to get market share. MFD digital is 36x48mm & with the new Phase back the chip is 41x54mm.

Denis,

The prices that are spoken about are basically twice higher both for body and lenses...

At 10.000 US$ I would seriously consider one too...

Cheers,
Bernard

[eronald]

Hi
There is no production of the ZDII. I just mentioned to a Phase rep that it would be a good idea since they have a close relationship?
Denis

Ah, you mean they should just drop a new chip into it ...
I think a decent chip still costs $1-2K which is too much for a company like Mamiya to fork out.

I would I guess if they're still alive in 4 or 5 years anybody will be able to make a 36x48 chip on a rent-a-fab and then there will be tons of chips and malls of boutique of MF manufacturers springing up.

Edmund