Leica's new MF system Options

[Guest_samuel_js_*]

Some Swedes do love their surstromming.

I hope It wasn't that what they were shooting there!

[jmboss]

Is there a MSRP or "Street Price" List for the Leica S2 Camera Body, Lenses, Etc. posted yet?

Thanks,

Joe

[John-S]

Is there a MSRP or "Street Price" List for the Leica S2 Camera Body, Lenses, Etc. posted yet?

Thanks,

Joe

With an August 2009 delivery goal, I doubt any price now would be worthwhile for many reasons.

[teddillard]

Is there a MSRP or "Street Price" List for the Leica S2 Camera Body, Lenses, Etc. posted yet?

Thanks,

Joe

I found $45,000.00 for the body only, from Wired:
http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/09/leica-s2-reinve.html

And a much better story here, and a stab at $30K
http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1222235975.html

seriously.

This post has been edited by teddillard: Sep 28 2008, 03:42 PM

[James R Russell]

With an August 2009 delivery goal, I doubt any price now would be worthwhile for many reasons.

Before every photokina the process has always been a flurry of press releases, then during the show a new batch of new press releases about strategic alliances with not a lot of new working product being shown, then months go by and the answer is check with your dealer who will give you a lot of second hand information about what, when, where, how much, how soon, etc. etc. etc.

Then the airwaves go dead for a few more months.

If Photokina got you hot to buy, you couldn't get most of it today though I'm sure everybody will take a "deposit".

What a wasted sales effort.

I get the impression that Photokina is just a place all the makers and dealers meet to cut deals and except for hasselblad, the only deals anyone cuts is with each other. I think they'd sell more product if they thought about cutting those deals to the end user. Maybe Hasselblad is on to something, but knowing the world of medium format the competition will probably just repsond by making a new series of e-mail blasts and pdfs.

It's like a celebrity photo shoot where the photographer, makeup artist, hair stylist and subject are all the stars. Everybody tosses out names, talks about the "industry" says how fab everything is but at the end of the day, they forget they are selling bras, jeans, or shoes.

The process IS the event and becomes more important than selling the actual product.

Consequently Saturday I was at a small sized camera dealer, (I'm talking a one counter store) and it was packed with people buying Nikon D300's and lenses. And not just the cheap lenses either, but those new Nikon zooms and the 200 F2. Every person was leaving with gold boxes under their arms and if the Canon 5d2 was for sale I'm sure their would have been just as many black boxes going out the door.

If this is a down economy you wouldn't know it by watching the activity in this small store.

One of the customers was a ceo of a large corporation and and it didn't seem money was an issue. He asked about the Leica and the dealer just said it's not available for at least a year, he asked about the hasselblad and the dealer said they don't carry them. I doubt if he knows the name Phase, Sinar or Leaf. So he bought a D3 and a bunch of lenses and he did this in about 10 minutes. About $18,000 in ten minutes.

JR

[Snook]

Before every photokina the process has always been a flurry of press releases, then during the show a new batch of new press releases about strategic alliances with not a lot of new working product being shown, then months go by and the answer is check with your dealer who will give you a lot of second hand information about what, when, where, how much, how soon, etc. etc. etc.

Then the airwaves go dead for a few more months. 

If Photokina got you hot to buy, you couldn't get most of it today though I'm sure everybody will take a "deposit".

What a wasted sales effort.

I get the impression that Photokina is just a place all the makers and dealers meet to cut deals and except for hasselblad, the only deals anyone cuts is with each other.  I think they'd sell more product if they thought about cutting those deals to the end user.  Maybe Hasselblad is on to something, but knowing the world of medium format the competition will probably just repsond by making a new series of e-mail blasts and pdfs.

It's like a celebrity photo shoot where the photographer, makeup artist, hair stylist and subject are all the stars.  Everybody tosses out names,  talks about the "industry"  says how fab everything is but at the end of the day, they forget they are selling bras, jeans, or shoes.

The process IS the event and becomes more important than selling the actual product.

Consequently Saturday I was at a small sized camera dealer, (I'm talking a one counter store) and it was packed with people buying Nikon D300's and lenses.  And not just the cheap lenses either, but those new Nikon zooms and the 200 F2.  Every person was leaving with gold boxes under their arms and if the Canon 5d2 was for sale I'm sure their would have been just as many black boxes going out the door.

If this is a down economy you wouldn't know it by watching the activity in this small store.

One of the customers was a ceo of a large corporation and and it didn't seem money was an issue. He asked about the Leica and the dealer just said it's not available for at least a year, he asked about the hasselblad and the dealer said they don't carry them.  I doubt if he knows the name Phase, Sinar or Leaf.  So he bought a D3 and a bunch of lenses and he did this in about 10 minutes. About $18,000 in ten minutes.

JR

Maybe just a false security as they seem have bailed out the corporate bone heads who screwed everything up.
If congress would not have bailed them out, I am not so sure so many tiny gold boxes would have been flying out the dorr..:+}
Snook

[Nemo]

Kaufmann said "we will try to be at less than 15.000 euros".

[eronald]

Kaufmann said "we will try to be at less than 15.000 euros".

Leica told me they would try to match Hassy on price, at equivalent pixels.

Edmund

[Rob C]

Well, nobody got bailed out today; maybe that, too, is just another mind-game...

Rob C

[eronald]

Well, nobody got bailed out today; maybe that, too, is just another mind-game...

Rob C

What, you're miffed that America's little excursion into socialism has been delayed ?

I thought we in Europe had a lock on socialism now that the soviets and china have given up on it.



Edmund

This post has been edited by eronald: Sep 29 2008, 03:20 PM

[hcubell]

Leica told me they would try to match Hassy on price, at equivalent pixels.

Edmund

The price point that Leica says it would like to meet---a Hasselblad with comparable MP--- would be the price of a Hasselblad H3DII-39, which has now been educed to US $22,000. By way of comparison, the Phase/Mamiya camera with a P45+ back is $32,500, the Leaf AFI 7 is $37,500 (or $38,800 with a 90 deg. finder), the Sinar Hy6 with 33MP back is $32,000(price of 90 degree finder=????). I wonder if the Leica CEO was thinking of the "old" price of an H3DII-39.

[Nemo]

The price of the Hasselblad H3DIII-31 is 12.000 euros.

Considering the last (reduced) prices of Hasselblad prices, Leica should place the S2 price between 10.000 and 15.000 euros.

[Nick Rains]

There's been a lot of ranting about high priced Leicas, MFDBs and dentists etc...

Do you think Leica might actually realise that there are a LOT more people who will buy a high end camera purely as a status symbol (think Rolex demographic) than there are professional photographers who can justify a 50K+ camera purely on ROI criteria?

One of the 'eye openers' on one of my recent workshops was the gear owned by some of my clients, in this case a dentist (really) and an ad agency owner. They had all the best gear, and I mean all. Between them they had well over 200K in gear - H3D2-39s, D3s, 1Ds3s. M8s and loads of lenses. They were interested in photography, had the money to indulge themselves and like to own 'the best' stuff. Nothing wrong with that.

I had no camera with me, apart from a loan 1Ds3 in case of breakdowns, and my co-instructor had a Mamiya Press (!).

I say 'so what' if a camera costs a bucketload of cash? Buy it if you can afford it, don't if you can't. Pros do not need the best, they need the most appropriate for their business - the right gear is not necessarily the best gear.

I wonder if there is a forum for taxi drivers bemoaning the prices of the latest BMW, whilst they drive Fords.

[BrianSmith]

The price of the Hasselblad H3DIII-31 is 12.000 euros.

Considering the last (reduced) prices of Hasselblad prices, Leica should place the S2 price between 10.000 and 15.000 euros.

I'm guessing that since the S2 is 37.5mp, Leica is looking at the H3DIII-39 as their pricing benchmark.

I hope that Phase and Leaf are paying attention...

[Nemo]

The H3DIII-31 has the same sensor size than the S2 (more or less).

[BJL]

I'm guessing that since the S2 is 37.5mp,  Leica is looking at the H3DIII-39 as their pricing benchmark.

I expect Kodak and Dalsa to offer their new 6 micron pixel technology in the smaller 44x33mm formats too, producing about 40MP (7333x5500) sensors similar in size and production cost to the 45x30mm sensor of the S2. And Kodak will probably equip its new 44x33mm sensors with micro-lenses, as in its current 44x33mm sensors and the new 45x30mm for Leica.

Then the S2 will probably compete with new 44x33mm models, at least on production costs and sensor performance. But the Leica S system might have a big advantage from its better match of lens format and focal length choices to sensor format, compared to using a 44x33mm sensor with a lens system adapted to 56x42mm or even 56x56mm.

[Nemo]

I expect Kodak and Dalsa to offer their new 6 micron pixel technology in the smaller 44x33mm formats too, producing about 40MP (7333x5500) sensors similar in size and production cost to the 45x30mm sensor of the S2. And Kodak will probably equip its new 44x33mm sensors with micro-lenses, as in its current 44x33mm sensors and the new 45x30mm for Leica.

Then the S2 will probably compete with new 44x33mm models, at least on production costs and sensor performance. But the Leica S system might have a big advantage from its better match of lens format and focal length choices to sensor format, compared to using a 44x33mm sensor with a lens system adapted to 56x42mm or even 56x56mm.

That is a good point.

The price differences between formats will not be too large in any case, but sensor size and lenses format make a difference for sure.

[eronald]

I like the S2. It is very simple, and might just be fun to use. I'm fairly certain that it will do my usual print size with no effort (40x30"). And the Leica cakes at Photokina were really good.

In the end, Leica, Hasselblad, Sinar, Phase, who cares ? It's all about the images ...

Edmund

[carstenw]

Would I love a P21+ back duct-taped onto the back of a 1ds3 body? Absolutely, but it's not gonna happen.

It would be kinda interesting to see what kinds of images would come out with that workflow, ie. Canon lens, Canon CMOS, Canon LCD, P21+ at point-blank. The sensor is smaller than the LCD, so there would be a crop factor

[telyt]

Does anyone know if it uses an AA filter?

No AA filter.