Anyone else see the Steve's Digicam's breaking news page before it was pulled down?

( http://ericcloninger.com/albums/DPRShots/S...K10DRelease.pdf )

Looks pretty seriously cool.

If that announcement is accurate and not a spoof, it would certainly put Pentax back in the mix. Interestingly, B&H already lists the K10D, but "out of stock".

$900 for that camera. And they seem to be the only vendor that is coughing up shiny new dx primes.

Interesting, I believe that all my M42 screw mount prime lenses would work with this camera. At the price point indicated, it would make for very viable option. The weather sealing is a very attractive feature.

Specifications aside, I wonder how it compares to its contemporaries in the real world?

I wish they'd come up with something like that about three years ago, before I started selling all of my Pentax bodies (35mm and 6x7) and many lenses and joined the Canon camp. I got wonderful results from a variety of Pentaxes for over forty years.

-Eric

An official verification: http://www.pentax.ca/digital/digital_slr/k10d/index.php

I suppose this means inexpensive used Pentax lenses will no longer be available.

Hooray. The more competition the better for consumers. Although I'm heavily committed to Minolta glass, so my next purchase will be a Sony (gulp). Still this news will breathe more life into the APS-C format. It's interesting to see the shift to SD for storage. But it looks like Minolta left the feild too quickly given that many of its innovations (anti-shake, eye-start) are taking hold with other manufacturers. I'll bet Pentax' use of weather seals in a "entry-level" DSLR will get traction as well.

I use Canon DSLR equipment, but have some wonderfull Pentax M42 primes gathering dust: 24mm, 28mm and 50mm f1.4, as well as two very old semi-auto Takumars: the 105mm f2.8, and 35mm f2.4 lenses. I assume these would work with the proper Pentax adapter?

Regards
Dave

A preview of the K10D has appeared: http://www.dpreview.com/articles/pentaxk10d/

To borrow a modified phrase from MR's review of the Pentax D, " Pentax appears to have hit a grand slam". Ok, perhaps a hyperbole, but it's nice to see another player in the game.

Seriously, when is canon going to get their crap together and put wealther sealing in non 1 series bodies.

This is the sort of camera that i would buy if i didnt have a glass comitment.

How many of the pentax lenses are sealed?

I've never understood why people care about weather sealing. I've used my 20 in pouring rain without a failure. What does weather sealing actually win me?

I used my Canon 10D on a longish day hike in off-and-on heavy rain in the Canadian Rockies, with a plastic bag for partial protection, and after about two hours the batteries shorted out, ending photography for the day. Fortunately, it all dried out in the cabin near the fireplace that night and suffered no permanent damage. But I would sorely like to have been able to use it for the rest of the hike.

By contrast, I used many Pentaxes (35mm through 6x7) for some forty years, in all kinds of weather, and never had a failure of any sort. If I didn't have so much invested in Canon now (10 D, 5D, 3 L-lenses, other assorted stuff), and if I still had some of my old Pentax lenses, I would jump for the new Pentax K10D in a minute.

-Eric

Eric:

Given Canon’s market dominance right now, you could likely sell your Canon stuff, buy a K10D and a few limited lenses and have cash leftover, if you really wanted to. I might wait for some published photos myself; the image quality promises to be good but is an unknown quantity at the moment.

Protection against corrosion and short-circuiting due to a combination of crud and water.

Remember, the 20D is mainly an electronic device, not a mechanical one.

There is a post on the canon forum of FM at the moment about someone who killed his 20D by letting it get wet then even managed to kill a 1D mkII through too much rain.

To much insurance is never a bad thing is it?

For a moment, I was getting all excited:

"Newly developed A/D converter for truthful image data conversion.
The K10D incorporates a high-performance A/D converter, which faithfully converts the analog data collected by the CCD image sensor into digital data. With the highest resolving power (22 bits, or 4.2 million gradations) among all existing digital cameras, it offers a digital-conversion capacity 1,024 times greater than conventional 12-bit, 4,096-gradation A/D converters. "

*This* was seriously interesting!

And then, from the specifications page:

"Colour Depth: 8 bit (JPEG) or 12 bit (RAW) "

I mean, is anyone else just a little bit gob-smacked by the notion of building a new A/D converter that gives us some serious bit depth per channel and then you THROW THE BITS AWAY and bring the image back down to precisely the same level as all your competition? What is wrong with these people?

Seems to me that they might have created a monster that couldn't handle. Having the increased bit-depth per channel is fabulous from an image quality angle, but would be shear hell from the point of file size. Not only would 22-bit per channel raw images need more storage, they would need vastly more storage as it is much harder to lossless compress these puppies.

Andrew

Precision is not only a question of bit depth. If your analog device (sensor) is not able to mesure a Signal with a better precision than Noise, there is little advantage to sample with more accuracy. For example 10IL of Dynamic Range (as defined by Saturation/Read Noise) is quite well handled with usual 12 bit depth ADC.

So... I am not too sure about the advantages of that 22 bits ADC...

Olivier

Not sure what you mean by "For example 10IL of Dynamic Range (as defined by Saturation/Read Noise)". What is "10IL"?

Whatever it is, I can tell you that getting a true 16-bit RAW is about the only thing that *might* pry my 5D from my living fingers.

22bit ADC is, in my view, totally over the top as far as bit conversion is concerned. We are talking about three orders of magnitude beyond the 12-bits I get today. The least significant bits are going to be swamped by noise from any sensor/amplifier with maybe the exception of some of the super-chilled astro cameras.

But, the more bits you can get off the sensor chip into a PC, the greater is your ability to characterise the noise and cancel or at least reduce it.

So, why are they not producing at least 16-bit raws instead of 12-bit? This is still 1.5 magnitude improved and is not to be sneezed at by anyone.

It's like putting a speed limiter set at 55mph into a high performance sports car. Yes, we gave you a six-speed transmission, but we have locked out the top two gears - sorry. But ain't it great that you get a six-speed gear box?

Some Pentax marketing copywriter has found a bone to gnaw on and has totally failed to notice that it is his own leg.

Andrew

Andrew:

Whether the 22 bit ADC is of any real value remains to be seen, but a rough analogy for a similar process: would you rather convert a 16 or 8 bit TIFF to an 8 bit JPEG?

K10D may be 16 bit raw

http://www.photozone.de/active/forum/ShowA...C73?ID=1075159A

Andrew,

Yep, but isn't there value in highlight handling?

I don't think that they are after extra DR, in my view they are trying to address those transitions between blown areas and their neighboors.

I could be wrong though.

Regards,
Bernard

Customer Service/Tech Support, don't you just love it.

I went to the PentaxUSA website to see what they had to say about the new K10D, and also to find out about using my current Pentax lenses - the screw mount M42 lenses with the new camera. It was implied in the DPreview that with a factory adaptor, I should be able to use them with the new camera.

I currently have 7 Super Takumar SMC screw mount lenses for my SpotMatic, and while they are not autofocus, they were considered quite good back when I first bought my camera in 1968. Being able to use them would allow me to get a rather nice digital camera for ~$900 (US) and have prime lenses from 28mm to 300mm.

My current inventory consists of - 24mm f/3.5, 50mm f/1.4, 50mm f/4 [macro], 100mm f/4 [macro] my favorite, 150mm f/4, 200mm f/4 and 300 mm f/4.

So here is my email to Pentax and their reply -

My Email:
> As a Pentax Spotmatic owner, I am considering the K10D when it becomes
> available. I read that it will accept the M42 screw mount
> lenses. I have a number of Takumar SMC M42 screw mount lenses ranging
> from28mm to 300 mm. Will I be able to use these with the K10D with an
> adaptor?I understand that I would be operating in manual mode, but I would
> stilllike to use these lenses if at all possible.
> Since these lenses are totally manual, how would I go about using them
> onthe K10D?


From: <photo_end_US@pentax.com>
To: <jayskaplan@comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 10:52 AM
Subject: E-mail webform


> Dear Sir/Madam,
>
> Thank you for contacting Pentax.
>
> I'm sorry but I do not have any information on the compatibility of
> non-Pentax lenses with the K10D. All existing Pentax lenses will work with
> the same level of functionality you have on your current camera, but I
> cannot comment on Takumar.
>
> If you are in need of further assistance, please respond to this email or
> call our technical support center at 800-877-0155.
>
> Sincerely,
> Jimmy
> Pentax Imaging Technical Support
>
>

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Perhaps what I will do is wait until the camera is available in stores and visit a local dealer here in Baltimore - Service Photo Supply and seek help from them. Obviously, the distributor has know idea how to respond to a simple query. Either that or they have no sense of history. Strange when you think about it since a section of their site is dedicated to Pentax's photographic history with the SpotMatic having a prominent role.

Jake21209,

Sounds to me as if "Jimmy" (probably aged about eleven) never heard of Takumar, Spotmatic, Asahi, or Honeywell, and probably has no idea what a "screw-mount" lens is.

I feel your pain! Since mention of the K10D came out, I have been feeling regrets at having sold off my Pentax stable (35mm and 6x7) a couple of years ago. I went through quite a number of Pentax bodies over the years, and I eventually converted to all bayonet lenses, which were *sharp* and reliable. For hiking, I really miss my 45mm/2.8 "pancake" lens.

I hope the real K10D indeed is able to accommodate all of your lenses.

-Eric

If they will work, it will allow me to take the first step in to digital photography at a relatively "modest price".

Jake:

I have no experience with M42 on K mount, but everything I've read indicates full usage in stopped down mode. see the following for a discussion of various adaptors:

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-..._id=00I5oY&tag=

Thanks, it appears that a Pentax adaptor is available. As to stopped down mode, on a Spotmatic, in order to get a meter reading, you were working in stopped down mode. To focus, you worked wide open. And of course, all setting and focus were done manually.

No, to be accurate it's like putting digital speedometer in that high performance sports car that can only make 10mph steps.

There could be any number of technical reasons for only providing 12bits, one of them could be that they can't move that much data, it'll take ~2x the amount of time to write images out to CF or SD for example. The comment about noise of the analog system is well made, more bits only reduces the quantization error of the system, if the quantization error is smaller than the system error more bits doen't help.

Or they could add 16 bit RAW support with a firmware update. The fact that the camera records directly to DNG is a big plus.