There was some blame on color design of new Rollei Hy6 when it was announced couple of months back at Photokina 2006. Here you are few images of this camera in new and, most likely, final appearance:





The same Rollei Hy6 pictures (along with Hy6 initial, concept design & Rollei 6008 AF pictures) might be seen at oMoses Rollei equipment

looks good...
next step availability and price...

I disagee. From a visual inspection it appears "clunky" - a throwback to 50 years ago. The ergonomics - specifically the handle - don't seem to take into consideration the shape of the human hand. It would be nice to see a prism viewfinder as well.

I call it timeless design! "form follows function" in perfection

I was fortunate enough to hold Rollei Hy6 and was surprised how well it sits at my hands - the ergonomic (grip including) is almost prefect. Most likely you would be interested in reading this Rolleiflex Hy6 (also Sinar Hy6 & Leaf AFi) - first impressions report by Erik de Goederen from Holland.

The price is not fixed yet but according to my sources at Rollei the camera body will cost under 5000€ (in Germany) including tax; availability - April-May 2007.

By the way, the third picture from the top shows Rollei Hy6 with 4.5x6 film magazine from the 6008 integral line. A new direct driven magazine for Hy6 currently is under construction.

On the accessory side, you can use all the accessories of the 6000 system with Hy6. The exception is the standard magazine 6x6, Polaroid magazine, release cables, NiCad-battery, charger and interchangeable finders. Soon Rollei will make a new 90-degree prism finder, very stylish and modern like this one:

How will PocketWizard mount onto this camera body? Will it be forced to stick out the side? I fear it accident waiting to happen. It will snap off in middle of job? Made of cheap plastic. Very awkward, to have this design, with side mount. Left hand is focusing, but also hitting PocketWizard too? Is this camera for Tungsten only? Seems like oversight.

Charles, the 6000 series has always had the flash mount there. I doubt they would have continued this design for so many years and into the new model if people were finding it problematic. I imagine that the left arm would go under or over the PW. You could also get a short extension lead to avoid the problem.

What is made of cheap plastic?

I normally double stick tape my PocketWizards horizontally to the prism when using Hasselblad 503cw or Mamiya RZ67II.

It'll work fine. The hotshoe's in the same position as on the 6008 and I never had any problems with that. If you must have the Pocketwizard/flash in the upright position, there are brackets/adapters that will accommodate that.

You can also buy velcro strips and place it on the prism or on the front of the waist level finder. PW's come with velcro and you just need to buy a small 10ft roll of Velcro to add to other products. I use it on all of my Profoto power packs.

They make different grades of Velcro and you can buy one that would not allow the pocket wizard to fall off at all. You have to tear it off.

We've been making adjustments in photography for years.

The camera to me looks great and I am Super PSYCHED about this system. I'll be one of the first to get this sytem once it is tested and working properly.

I stand corrected. After looking at pictures from another angle, two things stand out:
1) the styling is retro - classic much like a Porsche 911
2) the handle was rotated to allow it to be photographed sitting flat on a table but can be repositioned at a more comfortable angle for the wrist when using an eye-level viewfinder
That takes care of the ergonomics. What remains to be seen is how well the digital sensors will handle lenses that were designed for film , especially at the edges.

Kenneth,

The lenses are brilliant!

I use a lot of Rollei glass and the eMotion 22 hasn't shown anything nasty at the edges yet...


Carl

www.alephstudio.co.uk

I didn't notice any artifacts or chromatic abberation in the Aptus75 files I captured a couple of months ago when I had to use a 25-30 year old black metal barrel Hasselblad 50mm Zeiss Distagon lens.

The combined shutter/diaphragm design is a bit strange. One can just hope the apertures are circular enough to ensure decent bokeh.

Edmund

the lenses (especially the schneiders) are better then anything else out there...and they are coming out with a whole new line...there is no system with that many available lenses out there...not even close...
the ergonomics are phantastic..anyone who has ever held a 6008 knows....i just had to shoot with a H2 with the 55-110....whoever designed this camera should be forced to hold it vertical for just 2hours straight....total weight with the lens almost 10pounds, horribly distributed, all held by a smallish grip, you don't know what is worse..holding it grip down and breaking you wrist or letting it hang from your wrist grip up and doing some permanent damage that way....add the mirror slap to it....amazing....i used to get sharp shots handholding a 680GX at 1/15th...with the H2, the 1/125th look a little off....
add to that the 15 lock ups during one afternoon of shooting (grip off, grip on...) and the fact that this camera uses non-rechargeable batteries!!!!! are they nuts?


anyway...i hope the world wakes up and sees that the emperor has no clothes at all...
both contax and mamiya have vastly superiour ergonomics and much simpler, more intuitive controls, the 645afdII better af...combined with excellent glass for both at less then 25% of the price....
the rollei will have no problems taking over from the H1/2/3/4/5 if the (non existend) marketing dept doesn't mess it up....
i mean, a completely new camera that still takes all lenses, finder attachments, even some film backs? and still looks to be the best, most versatile and open digital platform? how can it not succeed?
but i guess judging from the success of the H1, the priorities lie elsewhere...

how can you even tell from these pics? how do you come up with this stuff?
by the way: a simple solution: why don't you check it out...all the lenses have been available for a while....

Here is a sample of Rollei bokeh: http://www.pbase.com/sikario/image/70183437/original.jpg

See this thread: http://oomz.net/mf/viewtopic.php?id=3386

You are correct, I owned these lenses years ago with my 6008AF.
I am truly amazed at some the stuff that is said here.

Why should I limit myself to these pics for information ? The Rollei documentation is much more interesting, and as I posted the link floating around fm I assumed you'd seen it.

They seem to have some new technology in the carbon-fiber shutter of the new lenses - see bottom of page 2 of the link I posted earlier.

http://s_gravesen.perso.libello.com/HY6%20engl..pdf

I have the impression there are some novelties there. Am I right that flash sync speeds are going up compared with the 600x lenses ?

Edmund

Thank you, pss and foto-z - I completely agree with you on Schneider optics and have nothing to add. It is simply The Best (but expensive ) lenses ever.

no, you don't have to limit yourself to these pics at all, but if make remarks based on information that is not mentioned, people will wonder....but thanks for answering my question (where you come up with this stuff) i have seen that pdf...
the pic you are referring to has been in every rollei pdf since the 6001 came out, mostly because that shutter is built into all schneider lenses....the lenses are the 180 and the 50, the 180 has been out for 10? years.....
i think it has been mentioned in these forums 100s of times that the PQS lenses synch up to 1/1000 sec....and have for a while....
and in case you missed that info as well (it is only mentioned in every single post and release about this camera), you don't have to compare these lenses to the 600x lenses.....THESE ARE THE 600X LENSES.....

Edmund,

The internal shutter of Schneider lenses buying you flash sync with incredible speed - up to 1/1000 sec. In general Rollei will optimize the current line of AF lenses for digital and there will be a "D" behind the lens name. It is planned to deliver these lenses with a black bayonet mount instead chrome (availability: IV quarter of year 2007). Optimization means a higher resolution.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I guess no one can complain about a 1/1000 flash synchro being too low, or about the lenses being vaporware

BTW, I have seen and handled the protos, and my feeling is that a lot of people are going to like this camera very much. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me to see a stampede of guys going for it.

Edmund

I hope so!
I am still not quite understand US situation around Hasselblad while Rollei is obviously better. My only guess is better Hasselblad marketing...

considering the poor concurence in MF digital camera, I would go with that one instead of the close H# system...
And I don't really care about the design of the camera itself, just need quality, and the ergonomy seems good enough to me.

The Rollie has great lenses if not a bit heavy. I also like my HC glass and I expect that at the end of the day it will be the ergonomics that win users. It's good to see such investment and passion go into this project.

Damien.

Man, that coffee cup image really has me regretting selling my 6008AF last year. Maybe I should pick one up and some Velvia...

I am happy to see that another dmf camera option will be on the market soon. That will only drive all players to be more competive. If that camera was available 5 months ago I might have opted for it, instead went for a H2D with which I have shot close to 10.000 frames and will put that amount on it again probably before the Hy6 will come out.
One thing though.
I would advice you to urge your back/lens/camera manufacturer to come up with good software, since using the new hasselblad lens correction software I have safed so much time and can deliver 100% perfect files. Although I am sure the Rollei lenses are fantastic I have yet to see a lens that has absolutely no barrel distortion.
Hope you have that camera in your hand sooner than later!
Marc

Can you point me to a list of the coming lenses? One thing that stands out to me is Rollei's very slow progress so far on auto-focus lenses (three or four so far?), but maybe now there has been an infusion of capital and Rollei/Schneider will catch up with Fuji/Hasselblad, Mamiya and Pentax for AF MF lenses.

the new lenses are jenoptic, i think schneider is coming out with new ones as well......there is plenty in this forum on these new lenses...the jenoptic line was announced just about the same time as the Hy6....the schneiders are coming out slowly, so far there are 50, 80, 180 and 2? zooms....there was a 100macro in the works, but the jenoptic announcement might have shelved that...
as far as i know the jenoptic lenses are 35, 60, 150 (for some reason i think there are 2 150s?) and one more

Hi,
will the design update also affect the Hy6 branded Sinar? Also, are they going to be indentical?
I ask this because as we all now, the hy6 labeled Rollei won't be sold in Europe or USA. I will be sold as Sinar, and I personally find the Sinar awful compared to this last Rollei.

SINAR HY6


ROLLEI HY6




Thank's
Samuel

The Hy6(Sinar) image is still the prototype and the Rollei Hy6 is a more recent version.
In a few more months we will know more about the final result.
Cheers,
Willem.

The answer is on Sinar's Homepage: www.sinarcameras.com

No red knobs or commands anymore: this was the first prototype.

Thierry

Edmund,

I think you really need to define what you mean by the phrase stampede.

If I could buy this camera as a Rolleiflex and IF it would accept my Aptus and Phase backs without upgrade, without modification then maybe.

But that is not the case. Right now Sinar/Leaf are the only options and when you cost out the price of upgrading or switching brands, plus what it costs to buy a mixture of the new D lenses and the older 6000 series lenses you looking at a lot of cash for a camera that doesn't reallly have a clear agenda.

Is the HY6 a truly universal camera platform or is it just a marketing tool for Leaf and Sinar to sell more backs?

Does it have full functionality today with the 645 and smaller sensors or will it only really be funcitonal once a square sensor is announced?

The fact the back only rotates by removing it tells me that it's not really there until we see new sensors.

Personally I don't understand why digital has to be so limiting and proprietary.

Why not just buy a camera and then chose your back or multiple backs to fit it? That worked well with film and was the reason I use the Contax and was originally a big selling point of the Hasselblad.

Now it seems instead of more options, even with the introduction of a new camera, we are given less options.

As far as a "stampede" from Contax and Hasselblad users, I see that more as a trickle at best and even if everyone switched today, that's only a small portion of the market.

What Rollei or whoever makes this camera needs is a true stampede from Canon users and at the current price points and the somewhat vague information on what backs work with this camera, I don't see that happening.

They also need wide acceptance from Phase users, because without that this camera becomes a small niche part of a small niche market, just like the 6008 was.


JR

I dont see why people are still nagging about the closed hasselblad system: there is only one lens that needs the H3 for the moment, the 28mm and for good reasons. For all the rest you can use the H1 or H2 body with all backs you like. But however, the Phase backs are great ( not better then hassies but only a bit different) the apo correction really works extremely well and makes for me hassieback's the better choice.
The Hy6 will be a perfect tool but it will have to be an extreme well designed and perfect functioning camera to come close to the hassie system.

thierry...go to www.sinarbron.com and check out the Hy6 there....someone did not get the memo.....

typical sinar marketing.....unfortunately.....i WANT that camera, but the first thing i thought was too bad they did not change that ugly colorscheme.....

Could someone post some real pictures of the camera please?

Thank's

And when your H2 dies mid shoot? Do they still make them? So it's a possibility for use as an open system just as much as Contax, i.e. until you can't replace it anymore. Not an exciting prospect for a pro photographer who needs backup and rentals...

this is just comical....sinar is showing different cameras on different websites....

what do you mean by no clear agenda?



I think Thierry has made it clear (more than once) that Phase is free to go ahead and make a Hy6 version of the Phase One backs. No-one is stopping them. Same goes for Hasselblad. In that respect the Hy6 is totally open - no-one is locked out. Do you think Hasselblad supplied Sinar with ready-to-go adapters to fit the eMotion backs onto the H series cameras?



What functionality could possibly depend on the sensor size?



You could always turn the whole camera, as with the Hass H, Contax or Mamiya. Or you have the choice of rotating the back - a choice the others don't give you. Why complain about having more choice?

There's a lot to admire about this forum. But the one aspect of it that is just plain childish is all of the brand bashing. It's a sign of insecurity, I think. People defending their choice, and bashing the choices of others, but secretly wondering did they make the right choice. Maybe the cost of these systems has addled everybodies brains :-)

None of the current crop of MF offerings are perfect. Every one of them has it's share of warts. After looking long and hard at all of the current offerings, I ended up going with a P45+ and a Mamiya AFD II system. Is it perfect? NO. Does it have all of the features I want? No, but it has enough of the features I want. Do I like it so far? Yes, very much. But there were aspects of every single system that gave me pause, and other things about each system that I dearly wished would be available in other systems.

I came within a whisker of getting the H3D-39. I would have been very happy with it, and I have no doubts it would have served me well. And I certainly wish I had some aspects of it's control interface on my AFD II. I would have also been perfectly happy with a Hy6. Unfortunately, their schedule didn't match up with my schedule. But I'm sure I would have been well served by it had I waited a little while longer for it. If Contax had still been in production, I might have gone that way. So it goes.

Weigh the pros and cons and select the system that works for you. They'll all do a fine job. And they'll all give you fits at one time or another. But bashing everybody elses choice is just plain childish.

Just my $0.02 worth.

Paul,

I know and have seen it, that's why I have informed about it.

I am sorry about that, but it is somehow not avoidable, when so many images have been posted everywhere since last Photokina.

Thierry

so it is:

I wonder why the same questions/remarks/critics have not been asked/made when the H system was launched, years back.

It was Sinar (and other manufacturers) who made THEIR adaptations for THEIR backs, without Hasselblad being involved (in the contrary).

The same applies here and there are 2 DIFFERENT things to be looked at:

- the camera project itself: it has been clearly communicated who is the project owner, who is the manufacturer and who is selling this camera. Phase One is out of this process, as well as Hasselblad (obviously).

- the adaptation to this camera: this is another issue. But also here we have clearly commmunicated our position, since the begining and without changing this communication.

Thierry

Thanks, for yor always fair and "non-bashing" comments.

Like you, I wish to see and read sometimes a bit more respectful posts, respectful of all persons, choices and brands.

We are all here to learn, to give or to get information, and also a little bit for "fun": not to get bashings.
When I am posting something under my and Sinar's name, it is with the best of my knowledge and the respect of others views. Mistakes happen and we all make mistakes: it should not be used against each other.

Thierry

We all know medium format is a small market.

Given that, medium format seems to have develeoped into a closed end system, in other words one brand of back for one specific brand of camera.

Hasselblad started it with the H-3 and regardless of claims after Photo East most people know that all future H developement will go to the all in one H camera and H back.

I don't fault Leaf and Sinar for doing the same with the HY6, but as far as more options those options come with a qualifier.

Where do you buy the Rolliflex version of this camera outside of Russia or Japan and does Sinar sell the camera, lenses only without their digital back, because I have seen no pricing to suggest this?

If you like those brands great, your set, but things change fast in the digital world and what is the favored digital back today can be quickly limiting or problematic tomorrow.

I can list some compelling reasons to own more than one brand of digtial back and unless the camera platform accepts all brands easily, I do believe that is limiting.

After all in the film days would you buy a AGFA only RZ or a Kodak only V system?

In regards to the cameras functionality, the HY6 has been advertised as a square format, waist level camera from the beginning and though it now shows a prism finder, since it doesn't have a right angle grip like a Canon or Contax, it seems clear that the designed way to change orientation is by rotating the back.

That isn't brand bashing, that's just the information that has been given to us from the start by the manufacturers and from Sinar's own press release they make mention of future square format sensors, so it's just logical to assume that's the intended direction for this camera.

I'm glad this camera is coming to market but would be much happier if Iknew that it was available as a stand alone camera that was sold at a competitive price without a digital back. Maybe it will be but so far I have yet to see any information regarding this.

Obviously your a fan of Rollei and Sinar and predesposed to be positive towards that brand.

That's your choice and the current business model of digital backs will probably suit you just fine, though I find all of the new medium format offerings to come with an asterick at the bottom of the page which reads, to buy our camera you must buy our back.

That just seems to be the way the industry is headed and once you buy into one brand of digital backs, it's difficult and costly to swtich. The manufacturer's want you to stay with their brand for your career. Why else does every db maker have a schedule to trade in your back (or in hasselblad's case your older H-1) and receive huge discounts for the next model.

I guess that is the reason you see very few modern digital backs for sale on E-bay and I have to assume that this system is in place to protect the db market.

What does Leaf and Hasselblad do with all the used Aptus 17's and H-1's? They can't really be worth that much to them in parts so I assume it's to keep the resale market closed.

Personally, I'm not a fan of any camera, not to the point of positively pushing that brand.

I use a Contax and obviously have no agenda to spread the Contax word as they are out of business, though I am sure that if they were in business today deals would be in place for their cameras to be proprietary to one or two single brands of backs.

I boght the Contax(s) way before I bought a digital back and at the time could compare and put any of the 4 db makers backs on the camera (actually still can).

Try that with the new H3 or the HY6, buy the camera first and then compare all backs.

For the record I use Contax not for the camera but because of the focal plane design I can and do use a variety of lenses from Pentax, Contax, Hasselblad and Harteblei.

All produce a different look and once again since Contax is out of business there is no agenda to lock any digital back out of their system and other than the Mamiya 645 the Hasselblad and this new Rollei doesn't seem to be headed in the direction of 3rd party lens options.

The bottom line is nobody wants to selll just cameras, that's not where the money is.


JR

The only brand that constantly gets burned down is hasselblad's H system. Mostly based on non realistic information and by people who don't even own one.
The h3 is indeed a closed system, and for good reasons, as is the mamiya ZD. Nevertheless, you can put every back on the H2 or H1 without limitations.
Why do so many people keep on spreading so much nonsens about a completely closed system and constant problems with hassie ?????
I own a hassie H2, contax 645, fuji 680 and mamiya RZ on wich I use my 39CF and 384C back without problems or failures..... day in , day out and they all serve different purposes and they are all wonderfull systems.....

Because as I said earlier, those cameras are no longer current or available. Limitations are when you can't use your P1 back anymore because your H2 died and you can only rent or buy an H3.

Why do peolple keep on spreading this false information, is it because they want to create a hype or worse.... or is it because they simply refuse to accept the facts.
The hasselblad H2 is here with us and will not go away ( at least not without being replaced by a successor wich accepts all different back's).
The hasselblad H2 is still out there in production and will stay!!! Only the H2D is replaced by the H3D wich is quite a wonderfull camera.

It is not just one brand that gets bashed. Every DB maker has had flak at one time or another.

What I feel really uncomfortable about is the idea you cannot trust the party you have trusted with your business. DB makers appear to be trying to keep customers locked in by limiting their options.

In every aspect I feel things are implemented or omitted to make it hard for me to switch to another brand.

This is not in my best interest as a photographer, no party has my best interest highest on its agenda.

This is the thing that really worries me about all DB makers. What will be the next thing to block me from more or other options.

Or am I just a bit paranoid and are these things just coincidences?

I much rather stick with vendors because I feel they have my business high on their agenda. It is coming from the other way but just might work as well.

you don't see that his forum's only reason to exist is to bash hasselblad? how dare anyone reporting problems they have with their cameras or lenses.....or that someone is voicing their astonishment that a system that they bought into does not support their back from one day to the next.....

there are a lot of people out there who own H1 or 2s with phase or leaf backs and they are very happy but just like with any system there are problems and i don't see why posting them in a forum like this is bashing.....this is why this forum exists in the first place....people ususally don't spend their days gushing about how great their system is....they come here because something does NOT work.....

go look at the printer forum and look at the threads.....oh no, there is some serious HP bashing going on in there!.....or maybe it is just people having problems, vicing them any trying to work through them and hopefully at some point the manufacturer fixing what is wrong in the first place.....

open and closed systems: the H3D is a completely closed system.....hasselblad says that it has to be in order to build in lens correction in the software....sounds great....hope it works....power to them and everybody who buys into this hoping that they will be able to provide the best solution for the next 2, 4, 6, 10 years...best camera, lenses, backs, software, and all in all best combination of all.......my personal opinion is that they won't be able to do it.....this is based on th experience that it hard enough to build the best camera and lenses, so coming up with the best backs and software on top of it.....i would not (and don't) buy into it.....this has nothing to do with hasselblad....i would not buy into anything like that coming from rollei, mamiya or phase.....

i understand that everybody is trying to sell the back with the camera these days....to make sure that people will buy the next version of the camera and more lenses.....thank god i don't have to....i can pick and choose.....i guess i wish i would really have liked the hasselblad CF solution the best when i did my tests....i would be able to use 6008,H, RZ, 680,...everything....but to me the phase was a better solution...so much better that i gave up shooting with the rollei to shoot phase....i have no regrets at all....i can use my 645 and my RZ and just got a new toy, the lensbaby 3g for my 645afd....

regardless of open or closed, i would never drop everything just to get in line to buy a camera that nobody has shot with yet.....don't get me wrong....the Hy6 looks amazing, if i had unlimited funds i would buy one right away....the emotion back is great....but for me to use it as a tool, it has to prove itself first....problems, technical, mechanical, logistical.....i am sure most of it will be fine, the 6008 is a great camera, so by the time someone makes a phase adapter, i will have to take the plunge....i hope i get at least a year....