I thought it might be worth posting some of my experiences as I evaluate two MF systems. I'd also like to post this for Thierry from Sinar. The LL forum and Thierry's postings are the primary reason the Hy6 has remained on my radar and I think it would be useful to feedback on my thoughts, experiences, etc. in pursuing this product.

This is my first foray into full digital MF and I'd like to do it right. I'd welcome all feedback.

First up, my starting principles:

General Decision Making Axioms

1. There is no perfect product. Pros/Cons to any choice.
2. There will always be something better in 6 months

Decision Making Criteria:

1. Image quality
2. Workflow Integration
3. Accessories availability, quality & variety
4. Support & Supplier Responsiveness

Integrated instead of MFDB+Body

I started my eval process considering either piecemeal body & back purchase or integrated system (hy6, h3d, etc.). I'm not interested in sub 30MP backs due to print size requirements and the possible Canon 22 changing the game at that resolution. I've decided to explore integrated systems for a number of reasons, primarily:

1. The repair pipeline: support of single system rather than multiple manufacturers/support processes
2. Market shifts: market seems to be moving towards integrated systems and away from backs (as Thierry pointed out, bodys are there to sell backs, not the other way around)
3. 2 years on: upgrade path seems clear and more secure with an integrated system (debatable: I welcome feedback)

Primarily, it's a business decision. What 30+ MP unit gets me the most quality with the greatest business security (reliability, repairs, etc.)...

Next, influences:

The influence of reviews and comments

Michael's initial H3D article really woke me up to the pitfalls of a closed system. That, combined with Thierry's excellent and helpful posts on this forum have kept me on the Hy6 side of the H3D/Hy6 debate for most of this period of consideration (until I started to contact suppliers).

A note: If Sinar doesn't already realize this, Thierry's comments are worth their weight in gold to Sinar. The lack of this direct community participation from Hasselblad has really give Sinar a boost in my evaluation process. It's taken some real difficulties with the local agent to counteract Thierry's initial good works. Sadly, they have.

So where I am now:

Decision Making Criteria

A summarized statement of decision making criteria (I have a spreadsheet on this process... this is a huge simplification).

1. Image quality: Tie
   I have no doubt that excellent images can be captured with both the Sinar version of the Hy6 and H3D. There has been a lot said on this already in the forums and I've read it all and have tested the H3D myself (and have reviewed emotion samples). I'm confident the quality is there for both backs/systems.
2. Workflow Integration: Tie
   Will move to Lightroom from Aperture as will be able to get either raw or DNG into it from either back.
3. Accessories availability, quality & variety: Hy6
   Clearly the variety of lenses will be better on the Hy6. This alone is a huge selling point. The back will change in a couple years. The body may or may not change with it. The lenses are sticking around across multiple generations of body/backs (if all goes well).
4. Support & Supplier Responsiveness: Hasselblad
   I'm based in Hong Kong and the Hasselblad distributor here is incredibly supportive and proactive. Unfortunately Sinar's distributor is based in China and was initially difficult to get ahold of. Their local agent was significantly less than helpful when initially contacted. It's felt like pulling teeth to get local availability information from him. Sinar loses on this. No matter how good the product, it comes down to me buying something from a local dealer that I will need to turn to for information, support, repairs, etc.

A note on clarity and communication

There was an interesting post regarding customer decision making regarding the H system cameras here. I read it and thought then that Hasselblad's biggest advantage, and one that goes a long way to overcoming many of the concerns regarding a closed system, is their clarity of information (or more accurately: perceived clarity). The great thing for Sinar is that Thierry is out here in the forums busting his back to really give us all more information (or as my wife says, "more color") on the Sinar Hy6. The terrible thing is that this is so necessary. The Hy6 project is exciting, but information on it has been so scattered that it's been a struggle to find it. There was an excellent summary post by Thierry recently, but it felt like it could be turned into a nice flow chart (and he did the best job I can imagine summarizing all the various players in the project). The fact that the industry relationships are so convoluted and the communications so ad hoc regarding the product leaves me feeling that there is a lack of organization on the communication side of things. Communication does not equal product quality, but I have a strong suspicion that it correlates to general corporate organization, product support, customer support, etc.

Sinar and the Hy6 project have this incredible opportunity with this really unique level of excitement and interest from photographers that are looking to not just "buy a new camera" but really commit to a new system. Hasselblad knows exactly what to do with this opporunity: communicate aggressively and clearly through their whole corporate-to-dealer pipeline. Sinar has excellent communication in Thierry, acceptable (not stellar) communication on the Hy6 project in general (e.g. on their website, which has less info that the forums here at times), and very poor communication from the person I need to give a large wad of cash to.

Summary

Still deciding. I was initially really not interested in a Hasselblad due Michael's eloquently expressed concerns coupled with the good timing of the Hy6 project. I'm now at least 50/50 on this and Hasselblad's dealer has gone a long way to making me feel like, if I do go with an H3D instead of the Hy6, for all I lose in the "closed" system, I will gain a dependable and available partner in support.

Thierry, I've used your name a lot in this post. I want you to know that you are a super star in my book and I hope that the other industry players learn from the work you've done communicating to your market here on LL. If your commitment to clarity and information extended throughout Sinar and the Hy6 project, and had made its way down to the dealers, I probably wouldn't be writing this post. I'd already be signing on the dotted line. I'm hoping that this long winded post helps give some anecdotal information on what one prospective customer's experience has been like.

I'd love to see Sinar consolidate their information, simplify and clarify it where possible, start a blog or single point of reference for the Hy6 Project and the variants thereof (all the players in the Hy6 project have a vested interest in clear communication on this, so a single website with Hy6 information would make sense). I'd also like to see Sinar get better information packages to their dealers to ensure that customers get clear, accurate responses from them up front (and I don't have to keep sending them copy/paste information from your posts!).

In the spirit of helpfulness... -Ethan

Interesting and thoughtful analysis; does the Hy6 even exist yet?

The H series has gone through several versions already, the kinks are worked out, and the only reason you question the H is because Michael said he doesn't like the closed system?

Michael's post was the kick start of my exploring what limitations I might face with the H3D system. There's more information on the forums regarding this. It's not a deal killer or I wouldn't be considering the H3D at all, but they are valid points.

The Hy6 will be released in June 2007. I'd like to make the MF transition prior to that to work on specific commissioned projects. As you note, the H3D is indeed out already, which is an advantage. However the early purchase program for the Hy6 would mitigate that advantage by providing me with a functional digital MF platform until the Hy6 arrives.

(I'm looking at this as a 5 year minimum commitment to a platform, workflow, etc. More likely longer, so even though the Hy6 isn't released till June it's still a contender.)

The point about the H3 having gone through several revisions is a good one. This is a real advantage as well.



Also, I should also note that Thierry has been in touch on the dealer issues I posted above and has been very responsive and informative. Again, kudos for his proactive communication.

And they are? If you can provide links to them please, I am interested in reading about the H3D limitations listed in other posts.

I am neither defending Hasselblad nor trying to be confrontational, I'm just not sure of the validity of the negativity towards a "closed system."

Fair questions. I'd start with this thread. There are probably others, but this is the one I have bookmarked. It has points on both sides of the issue. I agree that being a closed system alone isn't necessarily a negative (though it may be, and should be evaluated case by case). Regardless, I tend to want everything as open as possible.

My personal decision making criteria (see the four listed above) do not include "open" or "closed" systems. The closed nature of the H3 at launch left a bad taste in my mouth and opened the door for my consideration of alternatives. While I prefer an open system (maximizes my options going forward) I understand the manufacturer's desire to maximize profitability per customer (which leads to closed systems). Basically, though, as long as my four criteria are met, I'll be (relatively) agnostic on this point.

For the most part, I'm trying examine the way in which the various forms of communication and information (the announcement of the "closed" H3, the very informative out reach from Thierry here, the excellent distributor program that Hasselblad runs, the lack of information and the confusion among the local Sinar distributors) have influenced me as a buyer.

I'd welcome further thoughts on this. Again, closed/open matters less to me than the four criteria.

I commend the methodical way you are going about this, but to be candid, I think it's a VERY bad idea to buy into a Hy6 today by purchasing a Rollei 6008 with the promise of the Hy6 being delivered to you in June. The Hy6 does not exist today. It's a promise of what Jenoptic/Leaf/F&H intend to deliver in the future. They have not even shown a fully working sample of the camera. What if you don't like the way it handles. What if it's delayed/ What if there are material bugs in the firmware or the...or the...or the...? This is not Version 3 or 4 of the same basic camera/DB combination. If you can wait to kick the tires and let others be the early adopters with all the problems that usually entails and see how responsive Sinar is addressing these issues, great, wait and look carefully. Otherwise, don't fall into the trap of being a beta tester for Sinar.
BTW, how is it that a camera system that doesn't exist yet has a better selection of lenses and accessories than the H3D? My recollection is that there are now only 4 AF lenses for the Rollei system, 50, 80, 150 and 180.
Good luck.

dear hcubell,

the beta-testing is taking place right now, while we are "speaking": it does not guaranty that there won't be any "bugs" anymore, but it has to be said.

concerning the AF lenses for the Hy6, here what is currently available:

Schneider AF S-Angulon 2.8/50 HFT PQS
Schneider AF Xenotar 2.8/80 PQS
Schneider AF Tele-Xenar 4/150 HFT-PQS
Schneider AF Tele-Xenar 2.8/180 PQ
Schneider AF Variogon 4.6/60-140 PQS

and here what is coming in September:

AFD Xenotar 2.8/80 PQS
AFD Super-Angulon 2.8/50 HFT PQS
AFD Tele-Xenar 4/150 HFT-PQS
AFD Tele-Xenar 2.8/180 PQ
AFD Variogon 4.6/60-140 PQS
AFD 35mm
AFD 120 Macro

thanks and best regards,
Thierry
Sinar AG Switzerland

Because all the 6000 system lenses will be compatible with the hy6. Not only the AF lenses.

Samuel

I find a couple of things very interesting....

It seems there were a lot of people very adamant that raw file formats should be open. There were petitions and protests and a lot of gnashing of teeth. We demand to keep controol of our work....Yet a closed system costing tens of thousands of dollars is met with open arms..."they can support it better"

Some things to consider...

In an integrated system, when one thing goes wrong the entire system is down. In a "mixed" system you can always go out and rent another body or back to get you through repair times and get the job done. Or even better yet, you can use multiple backs on the same body. There are times that you might need less resolution and more speed (or the reverse). Rent the appropriate back for the job and use your camera body that you're familiar with and comfortable using

As much as I'd love to see the Hy 6 system be successfull, the reality is that no one has yet seen one actually working. We have no idea what bugs may or may not show up....Just ask anyone that bought a Hasselblad H1 when they first came out.

I don't mean to bash any product, but if you're a full time working professional photographer I don't think you can afford to take a chance that you'll end up on a job with a digital system that has serious bugs in it. Unless of course you don't really mind losing that client.

Just my $0.02 worth....Canadian dollars at that.

Ethan, your original post was nicely put! I share your thoughts about Thierry. He has been very helpful to me as well. I hope Sinar appreciates the value of his efforts.



The Hy6 could be considered a revised 6008. It isn't a greenfield project.

Graham, you're right. I still think (mistakenly) of the Hy6 as a new unit, but you're spot on regarding its pedigree in the 6008. This is the kind of thing that I'd love to see on a centralized Hy6 website, for example an FAQ question dealing with the "this isn't really a v1.0 product, it's an evolution of an established platform".

I mentioned it briefly above, but I think it worth noting that Thierry got back to me within 20 minutes of my posting and had detailed information regarding Asia/China distribution arrangements. He may be taking care of Asia for Sinar, but he's also handling online, which really can be considered an entire region in itself, at least as far as mark/comm is concerned. Props to him.

Graham could be right. It seems like a redesigned 6008AF without the motor, different batteries and no need for any leads to sync the back with the camera. Judging by the images online, these improvements have made it smaller. That might mean that there will be room for another lens in my cabin luggage when I'm working abroad.

Good!

Well put. From my personal experience, Hasselblad has stood by their product and is a decent company to work with. I'm following this topic because I am heavily invested in H lenses (and very happy) and two H2s and sooner or later I will either upgrade them to H3Ds or purchase 3rd party backs.

It is great that you have the luxury of waiting 6 to 18 months for a new system. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and research too.

Actually, I won't be waiting that long. If I go for the H3D, it's in hand in Q107. If I decide that the Hy6 is the best option, I will opt for the package with the 6008+eMotion back, and again in hand Q107.

The point in an above comment regarding not risking the job is noted, but I'm already prepared with alternate options. Indeed, many of my main concerns expressed to the dealers locally have centered around risk factors such as ensuring that loaner units will be available, etc.

Business continuity and contingency planning are always top of mind for me.

Thierry:
It appears that what are "forthcoming" in Sept. are two new prime lenses and digital versions of the same existing 4 AF prime lenses. Two questions. First, will Sinar offer refunds to everyone who buys a Hy6 expecting a 35mm or 120 macro prime if it is NOT available by Sept.? I know people who had full heads of hair when Mamiya started promising a 28mm lenses who are now bald. Second, could you please explain in more detail the functionality of the digital versions of these lenses? Also, will these be like the Hassy 28mm HCD that only works with an H3D(i.e., the new D lenses will only "work" with a Sinar or Leaf back that can "read" the digital coding info?).
Thanks.

first: the Hy6 is a very logical step up from the 6008Af, it takes the lenses some backs and some accessories....as far as i know the H3 still has the freeze problem with the battery....the Hy6 V1 will probably be a more mature product then the h1 was....and i am sure there will some glitches with the Hy6

but that is not the point....
this is your first step into DMF? have you handled any MF camera before? there are several other systems out there, all of them handle very differently and MF handles VERY differently from SLR!!!

this is one of these posts that just leaves me scratching my head....an in-depth analysis of a system i haven't tried compared to a system that does not exist yet....great...a lot to learn from that...a great philosophical discussion? go out and play with a mamiya...take some pics...

how can any base their decision only on "what michael says"?
image quality is a tie? have you ever seen the quality? do you know how the schneider or zeiss lenses compare to the hass lenses? how the backs compare?
HOW THE SOFTWARE COMPARES? WORKFLOW?

there is no one system that is better then the others...number don't mean anything....there are only personal preferences and how willing someone is to put up with the shortcomings of the chosen system...

I talked to Franke&Heidecke today on the phone. first about some service stuff for my 6008, then I asked about a true 6x6 back for the camera. They guy told me, they are working on one.

If this is true, the concept of the hy6 gets even better for me...

Was this a 6x6 film back? Or....

Thierry,

I hope the forthcoming AF120Macro ISN'T of the current Zeiss formula (which I believe is optimized for 1/8th life-size reproduction).

I'd love it to be a true macro lens (with floating elements), and perhaps like Canon's 90mm TS-E or Nikon's 85mm PC Micro with some built-in tilt/rise movements.

Billy

&



hi Billy, hi hcubell,

About the new AFD lenses which will be available for the Hy6: it will be possible to buy (order) them when available. Certain types, like the digital version of the existing ones certainly first, then the 35mm and the Macro 120mm. There is no time table for the last 2 models.

I was trying to give an information which s not longer confidential nor a secret, to give you an idea about what wil happen, and in order to inform correctly.

But all these lenses will be officially annouced and marketed when available: in the meantime, all the existing AF (and NON-AF) 6000 series lenses can be used, which is quite a good choice.

I beg for your understanding and patience for any further information and technical data of those new lenses: you can imagine that I haven't got it at this stage. It will however be communicated in due time, through myself here as usually, but also the normal way.

Thanks to all,
Thierry
Sinar AG Switzerland

Or what? I don't get it.

In all the pictures up to now you see the 645 film back, but there will be a 6x6 film back later...

Okay, now, you where thinking 6x6 digital, hahahaha. They would have never told me that....


Regrds

Well, I definitely appreciate the concern you're showing, but not to worry. I have shot MF and have used MF digital previously. I have processed MF digital for other photogs as part of larger shoots and myself for smaller test runs.

And although I'm very confident in my own experience to date and my own adaptability, no matter how prepared or unprepared I am, things will always be different once I integrate a Sinar/Leaf/H3D into my daily production. There is always a learning curve that I'll have to climb, whether it's new hardware, new software, etc.

Regarding Michael, I'm certainly not basing this entire decision on his article, but it was without a doubt the post that woke me up to the issues of a closed system. That's one of the reasons I love reading LL, both the articles and this forum. Like any journalism or editorial publication, it's not there to outsource my own critical reasoning, but it does open my eyes to possibilities, information and opinion. I applaud Michael for what he's done with the site. It's an excellent resource.

Again, thanks for the concern and I hope this reassures you I'm not a complete loon.

I believe they announced a few months ago that the Hy6 would have a 6x6 film back and a 645 fim back (rotatable) with the motors in the film backs, to save on camera size and weight when being used for digital.

Absolutely true, Graham, thanks!

Thierry

Surely the system is held back incredibly by a lack of 35mm if I understand clearly

Anyone considering this system should think about that unnanounced timescale big time

Think about making this lens..

This will be a problemo to make surely having to be retro focal enough to clear a 66 mirror - this is not a geometry that anyone has done before EVER

Blad only managed 35 with 645

Blad can only do a 28 for 645 times 0.9 (and one assume it is pretty wonky before correction)

Mamiya have been trying for YEARS to do 645 28

So what chance a 66 coverage 28 being in the pipeline that can clear a 66 mirror and has little enough distortion to be able to be used on film - very little I would imagine

And rollie cant do a 'DX' version becuse they still have to clear that catflap mirror and rely on the full coverage to provide both orientations

It becomes clear that blad may have been incredibly shrewd designing around the size of existant chips (bet the H4d has a smaller mirror and leads to an even wider lens)

Evaluatiing a 28mm system vs a 40mm system I know which system I would go for

And UK robertwhite lists the MF 40 at £2,485 ($5000?) so what will a 35 or even a 28 cost...

For people who need a decent wide surely may be trouble ahead on the HY6 front

Pure speculation I know but it has just become apparent to me that this system may be a bit useless as a general system until big chips hit home relying on switching to alpa for wide will marginalise the system IMO and a marginal system wont get the market share, rental stock and second hand rigs to buy from bankrupt wedding photographers - this wide thing could kill it right off - why didnt Jenoptic rise contax from the dead instead

Clearing that mirror is an extra 15mm of stress for thier designers that will surely make them lose many races

The solution could of coure be in a mirror up lense as was the case with super wide nikkors like the 8mm fish and a funky viewfinder on the flashmount


SMM

Shame the blad goons locked my out of the 28 - it wont make me buy thier back but it does lose them the revenue of selling me one

Dear Morgan,

I am not a lens specialist and cannot speak here, and you are probably right with the difficulty of such a task, to build a new 35mm covering 6x6.

However, I would like to remind that the Hy6 project, with all the planed new lenses and accessories has not just started during the last Photokina, when we annouced it: it is a project having matured since years.

Although there is no precise timetable for the release of such a 35mm AFD, I have total trust in our product manager, when he tells me that it will be shortly released after the release of all the other lenses mentioned, whatever shortly means.

However, one can never predict the problems in advance. And I also hope that you won't put me at the point of your gun in the future!

Best regards,
Thierry

But blad will sell you a 28 TODAY and you guys dont even list it at a futre possiblilty

My concern (for you guys) is that many buyers particularly in the middle ground who wont consider a second solution for wide will just go blad and make the system ubiqutos (sp?)

Those middle ground guys (wedding portrait etc) are the ones who buy a LOT of kit

They are the same guys who provide me with second hand gear as they change every week

Its like canon V nikon - I wouldnt touch Nikon now without FF even though nikon are good for 95% real life situations - 95% is not good enough

( I am heavily invested in nikon and constantly frustated by thier tinky litlte chip that has ruined my lenses)

The Sinar M was suited for 90% of my uses but the 60th flash synch made it no go for 10% of them

Hassy hits home 100% then and 100% now

Wide lense decent flash synch and passable AF - the only things that matter?

even though I dont like my blad (for some reason - maybe the colour!) it is still the business tool for me and will remain that way

Sinars 'system' seems a right mess- you have a pile of different lens systems and two nearly ran MF bodies

The P3 should run seamlessly into the HY6 and you should be able to use HY6 lenses on the P3 - they have the image circle for movements on a 645 (x .9) chip at least they must do they cover 66 thats 15mm of unsued rise

I could accept a lack of wide on the mirror bit of the system if it were a system

I would jump to a system that offered super wide and movements (like the P3) and leaf flash synch and for longer lenses offered the convieniece of 'mirror' shooting - did you get the rights to the Xact too .. will HY6 lenses work with that

SMM

It's a stunning lens, btw.



Yes and no. Your point regarding the technical difficulties can't be faulted, but if you need really wide angles there is a simple solution.

The digital back can be put on one of many view cameras and used in conjunction with 24mm, 28mm or 35mm lenses.

Advantages:

- the image quality of these Rodenstock/Schneider Digitar lenses is superb
- you can go WIDER than any MF lens
- you also have tilt/shift possibilities, which is more useful to any architectural photographers anyway
- this solution is already on the shelf

Result: no-one will be 'stuck'. This is what I plan to do to cover the ultra-wide end. Since when did any camera "do it all" anyway?

hi again, Morgan (or Sam?),

Right, we don't have all now and don't pretend to have it all: we have 2 hands, like any others, and doing our best to satisfy as many photographers as possible.

Our P3 does not integrate the Hy 6 lenses: it is a good idea, and nobody has said that it won't be the case in the future. But again, we have 2 hands! We never start 2 or 3 projects at the same time, rather one after the other, to avoid the mess you are speaking about.

Now, the future will certainly tell, but be assured that we are commited to our product(s) and always pushing our limits to reach the best possible for our customers.

Best regards,
Thierry

Sam,
the Rollei X-Act2 has the facility to use the Rollei lens range.
Regards,
Willem.

Well no camera ever hits 100%. Hass has a more limited range of lenses, which are slower then Rollie and have slower flash sync. For a long time they had no viewfinder options (is the WLF available yet?). The 28mm is the one ace up their sleeve, but not everyone needs a 28mm. Their bodies still lock up, and the 50-110mm lenses fall apart.

Definitely not a 100% camera. If it were, why would anyone buy anything else?

Doing a group shot at a wedding a bellows camera is not a simple solution

Shooting rowers rowing thier boat a bellows camera is not a simple solution



I know all about these lenses but there is no walkaround body that makes them useable - I just dont believe the junk ALPA spread about being able to guess focus (hand held close and at f4)

and cocking the shutter a bit 1880s too and all tha cables of electronic shutters is a bit 1990s

The HY6 would be highly attactive offered in conjunction with a rise fall mamia 7 style wide solution - but there isnt one




Canon eos1 and film 14 2.8 -> 600 f4

Does this look hard to handle? Each to their own I suppose





Not great resolution or colour. Slowish flash sync. Only a few good lenses. You are just making my point for me No camera has it all.

I don't think the Hy6 came about to copy the H1 series.

From what I've been told,the Hy6 is going to be a camera made in Germany with
a modern German auto-focus lens system,however staying with the traditional 6x6 format.

The idea of a digiback that can rotate sounds great to me.
At I don't have to put the camera on it's side.

A lot of photographers don't like having to hold a camera (Mamiya, H1) on it's side.

Also there are a lot of shooters that still might like to use film,couple with the latest technology
and lenses.

Myself,I went the eMotion-75 route with the Gottschalt Ds-30 and Rodenstock HR lenses(28,35,60+100 HR)

When the Hy6 comes out I'll be getting a 50,80 and 150 lens selection for that.

It's an expensive time for some of us.

Cheers,
Willem.

I am not sure that persons starting from scratch will buy anything else !

Just like if I were starting from scratch in 35mm I would nt buy anything but canon

You are right the blad is severely limited particularly in the rise fall stakes and lense speed range cost look

And the 28 and future lenses wont work with my back (or yours) - hense my interest in a route 'out' of blad

I think that until a decent leica or mamiya7 type camera comes available to sort wide issues the blad will however remain the king system of leaf lenses with decent flash synch

SMM

Yes for the attached image it looks very hard to handle !



I within the limits of 35 canon film (less wide issues) did have it all


--------------------

And a further thought : the need for a system that does 'everything' is far stronger now in the digital age

considering the costs I used to happily run 35mm and 645 systems and for only a few hundered $ could have gone 45 too

What I cant afford is two backs

And doesnt that make you angry ??

Knowing

you will have spent $000s on nearly duplicate focal lenght glass


That you own glass with a big enough image circle for rise and fall that you cant use on you view cam

I wouldnt own that duplication of glass on principal almost !

Your mate at gottchalt could save the day - get hy6 lenses working on his view camera

If your buddy with a CNC machine in his garage can do it why not the global might of jenoptic and sinar

The reason 'cos they dont talk to enough photographers. At least Thiery is here now - a start

It just saddens me all the R+D in the M and does anyone use it ??

All the time wasted on R+D, TTL flash and metering, useless centerpoint AF and countless other rubbish bits of electronics - havent these people heard of a histogram and looking at the screen or even through a nice bright viewfinder

All a camera is a a box to hold the lens in the right place in relation to the recording medium - preaferably with a mirror to see eactly what you are getting

We need one box with a mirror for 40 + lenses

And another box without a mirror for wides and rise fall but another realistic way of focusing and composing

Our lenses need to fit both boxes

The second box is missing

Until Sinar bring us the second box I think the blad will be the best single box to own and most important I think 1000s of others will agree

IMO There is space in the market for

canon : cheap one box

hassy : quality one box

sinar : qualiy two box solution with ultra wide, and rise capablilty

SMM

Morgan, have you looked at the Rollei X-ACT? It takes 6000 series lenses and puts them on a view camera. Seems to be what you are wishing for?

I think it a good solution for some

who makes owns it ??

spares distributors service??

Trouble is I want hand held

I want to be able to focus fast and accurate

I want phisical robustness that I can throw in my bag or have on my other shoulder if I could ever afford a second back

And inceidentally I already own a sinar view camera and sinar back and sinar have been trupeting about compatability since 1938 or whatever and they seem to have three sets of lenses on the go all at mega bucks and I need to buy a view camera from someone else - crazy

SMM

The verdict on other forums are that the blad 28 is wonky before and ok/great after correction. My question now is, if blad needs DxO style software (DAC 1 & 2 in flexcolor) to correct this piece of glass... will sinar/leaf/rollei need this type of software to correct a 35 for a 6x6 mirror? And if so, how far have they come on the "software side of optics."


You can use V-series lenses on the H-sys. albeit it does turn the electronic wündercam into a cludgy mechanical thing of the past... And yes, they are slower on both speed and sync


They started delivery last week here in Norway, my dealer recieved five, and Im number 6 on the list (got my ImageBank though! Cool to be able to shoot untethered with the Linhof, but I havent got around to testing it thoroughly yet.)


The rumoured shift/tilt lens from blad could be a killer if they get the DAC function in FlexColor to function with it. Two main dealers I have spoken to confirm it as being around the corner, but Hasselblad is as always silent on future releases. This piece of glass could also be an ace up their sleeve, if they get it right that is....

-axel

Sam/Morgan, you want a view camera with movements AND you want to use it handheld? That doesn't make much sense to me.

Anyway, here's an image of the Rollei X-ACT.

If is is a 47 and work with the 1.7 converter it will be cover many bases interior and product

Sounds interesting, but there is already a T/S lens for the Rollei/Hy6

Why not.

I understand tilt is hard to do off a tripod

But I use my 28 pc with my SLRn no worries

People use 24s and 80s on their SLRs all the time

Once you get into using a bit of rise it feels so restrictuve without it - even for portraits

Fixed lense photography is only half of the game IMO

The HY6 could have had a 'killer' 15mm of rise/fall with all existing lenses

I also want mega wide and I dont think the HY6 can progress in that diection

Have to do some work now ...

p.s what is that lens has it been mentioned before is it still made serviced available?

SMM

To all making this tread so interesting,

My godness! This is a lot of work ahead for us, to get everybody satisfied, but what a fantastic task for all of us at Sinar.

Be sure that our R&D team is more than often holding cameras with their own hands and running shootings by their own, to get the "feeling" of a photographer. We use to run even LF Worshops for our new employees joining the company, to give them a sense of this particular field of photography.

Be sure also that all your comments/wishes and even dreams are duly forwarded to the right persons.

The question thereafter is the technical feasibility (often feasible) and the commercial feasibility. For the last point one has to consider many factors: human ressources, other projects running, timeframe, costs and last but not least, returns and possibilities to sell it to cover all the costs at the very least, and the necessary marketing involved to get a chance.

Here and as an example, a project like developping a new camera with movements, based on older models, costs alone a few 1000 hours manpower and some 1 million Euros +++. I do not speak about the costs of a MF camera which should have it all, satisfying any need of everybody.

As said your wishes have been forwarded. In french we are used to say "Qui vivra verra!"

All the best to all,
Thierry

I really love these Rollei lenses. Here's my first test of the 1.4x teleconverter on the 180mm f2.8 lens, at f2.8, taken today in -10'C. By the way, I am using a terrible RAW converter to see my pics quickly without a Mac, so don't judge noise and colour.

quick test shot:


100% crop:


Even hand-held, with the teleconverter, I can see the pattern of the fabric. That's sharp

Your earlier post said that the new 35mm and 120 macro lenses would be available in September(2007, I assumed). Is there no actual promised delivery date?

hi,

sorry if I have explained myself the wrong way: 2.8/80; 2.8/50; 4/150; 2.8/180 & 4.6/60-140 AFD's are planed for September '07, the 35mm to follow, and then the 120 Macro. I have no other or more precise timing for the time being.

Best regards,
Thierry

Very Interesting 100% crop Graham, I have a few questions for you:

Tell me what are all these small white spots ?

Are highlights are blown in the white sweater ?

In the top right side of the image I see a strange pattern in the blacks ?

Is this color moiré on the bottom right ?

I hope this is your RAW converter and not the Sinar eMotion back

Thierry,

As we all know Sinar and Rollei have formed an alliance. Can we hope that we will be able to use Rollei MF lenses on a P3 ? I am hearing that X-Act 2 was discontinued and an adaptation of Rollei lens adapter and a (new) lens control may be logical. I understand that CMV lenses are better then my 6008 glass, just wanted to utilize my lens collection and save some money .
Thanks,
Yevgeny