I'm scheduled to get an upgrade to the P25+ when it comes out. At that point I can switch the mount if I want and I'm thinking about switching from my Hasselblad V mount to a Contax mount. I love my Hasselblad, but I don't think its working for me like it did when shooting square with film. I'm going to take a look at one of the Contax rental kits at a local dealer, but until it gets back in I wanted to get some feedback from people here that use the camera or decided not to use it.

My main concerns with the camera are the 1/125th flash sync. I'm used to a higher sync speed than that. How much of an issue is this? Also, I thought I've heard it mentioned that the viewfinder is actually quite small... is that true? One of the biggest reasons I like MF is the much larger viewfinder and it would be hard to give that up!

Thanks,
jeff

----------------------------------------------------
jeff singer | photography
http://www.jeffsingerphotography.com

I use the Contax 645 immediately after it was released to the market and since then, I left behind my Hasselbald 205TCC and 503 and Rollei 6008 and hardly use them ever. This is not to say each and every Contax 645 lenses are superior than the rest, but certainly they are at least as good, and with a MAM-1 adapter, all the V lenses (FE, CF, CFi,CFE) all can be used on Contax 645.
The AF speed is very aqcceptable for me, lens build quality is excellent, I have never had any problem of the body or lenses for close to 10 years. The Contax 645 body looks smart, layout is excellent, quick to operate. View finder is very good, mechanism feel is good, I am using it with P45 as my primary tool.
The flash sync is the only thing the Contax is not on top, I sometime found it is not fast enough in outdoor fill flash situation or sometime for certain studio shot I need to freeze the motion - but this can be helped from studio flash. For general photography or landscape, it goes from 1/4000th - B, something leaf-shutter system fell short. There is no perfect system, I would say Contax comes in as among the closest one.
Go for it!

Hi Jeff,

If you read the post below about P25+ vs P30+ you will see that i have just ordered the P30+ and at the same time have changed from Hass 'V' fitting to Contax. Having had the Contax in the past for film and loving the system, as well as changing to a rectangular format P30+ chip from the square P20 it made a lot of sense to go Contax, even though i have shot the Hassy for last 25 years.

With the P20 i was happy shooting square as it felt right in the Blad, however i am not so sure with the P30+. Along with the format and viewfinder issues the Contax is certainly more seemless, and the Contax lenses have a certain look at wider apertures that i am very happy to get back!

I have no reservations about the change, i shoot 99% daylight so flash isn't an issue, the viewfinder is a joy albeit slightly less bright than the Hassy, and the ability to shoot more freely handheld will be a big plus.

Gary.

I just received my Contax. I was quite surprised (disappointed) to see that when compared to the Hasselblad with the 80mm F2.8 attached, the Contax with the 80 F2.0 attached was much darker... I was expecting this to be a positive in the Cotax side since the lens is faster. The smaller magnification i was expecting, but it is quite drastic. And, I was surprised again to see that my 1DSII viewfinder is the same size/magnification... I was expecting it to be at least a bit bigger.

I will say that I like the focusing on the Contax lenses better and it seems like its easier to get the subject to snap into focus. I'm sure that the faster lens helps a bit since the OOF areas are even more OOF with the Contax.

Unfortunately I won't be able to use it with my back until I get my P25+ upgrade in a contax mount.... I guess I'm going to have to shoot some film to try out the camera over the next few weeks.

Jeff

Jeff, When purchasing my first MF about 5 years ago I looked at the Contax and my reaction was as yours, and I opted for a Rollei 6001 which I loved and unfortunately had to give up. Next came a 503cw which I also loved and had to give up. Now I am in a position to go digital and am reconsidering the Contax as well as Rollei or Hassy (maybe HY6,or new Pentax?). It's possible that I just favor the WLF over a prism. WLFs are available for the Contax and I have also read that there are several screens (Beattie,Maxwell) which can help with the brightness issue. I'll be interested in your final verdict.

Jeff, the main concern I have for the Contax 645 is the availability of servicing if something should break. What's your understanding of service support? Are you relying on the store you bought it from to service it? Is there still a U.S. service center? Is there a committment by the previous manufacturer for continued supply of spare parts?

I hear the Contax is very reliable, but anything can break. I'd appreciate any and all thoughts on this matter from you and from others on the forum.

Hans.

Jeff,

You may want to look into these focusing screens. I had them made for an RZ with the P25 guide lines and they are amazing! Three times as bright. Great to deal with and quick turn around.

http://www.mattclara.com/maxwell/index.html

Best of luck

R

It is said the Contax pro line will be serviced for 10 years from the time Kyocera announced to stop the line. May be officially there are still some years left. The problem is that my experience with Contax repair service was not very good, I have my RTSIII sent for repair and never got it fixed, but that was years ago in Thailand and Hong Kong. Anyway, the Contax 645 seemed to be among the best peice of camera Kyocera produced, I was scared when Kyocera put out the bad news so I bought extra 2 bodies, and till today I am still using the very first Contax 645 I bought shortly after it came out the market, never failed. I have run my Contax heavily, sometime going on 400-500 shots a day with digital back, and it just kept going on.

The 80mm f2 lens that came with my kit slips. It seems to slip between the 1m-1.7m distance on the len's scale. It doesn't always slip... just on occasion (enough to be annoying) and it seems like it slips most easily when the camera is tilted down.

This doesn't seem normal to me, but its the only Contax lens I have. I'm getting a 45mm today and will see what happens with that one. But, I'm going to go out on a limb and say its not normal. When it slips, it feels the same as when you get to the end of the focus (near or infinity) and keep rotating the focus knob... you get resistance and it sounds like you are forcing the AF motor (???).

I have the camera set to manual focus.

The kit was a used kit, but it is in perfect condition and wasn't used much.

Jeff

Well I just received a 45mm lens to test and this one doesn't do what I described above. Also, I took the 80mm off the body and turned the focus knob and it does the same thing off the camera as when it is on. Also, I noticed, it only slips when focusing to the right (min to infinity).

Errrrrr, bad lens I guess.

Jeff

I like my Contax in every way except the WLF. The problem is it doesn't work for portrait mode. I wish HB V had a rotational digital back. Don't know why it's not possible.

Now HY6 seems an ideal choice. Unoftunately, it shows up too late. After investigating so much on Hasselblad V and Contax 645, I'm reluctant to spend money on a new system.

I've written letters to Hasselblad, asking for a digital back that can be rotate on V and also can take Xpan's lenses, though knowing it's not possible.

The Contax 645 certainly interests me, but I have three big questions:

1. Where do you send your Contax 645 when it needs servicing? I'm in the U.S., so I'm mostly interested in U.S. service solutions. I don't have much confidence in store-based servicing.

2. Can you still find a new Contax 645 anywhere? Is there anyone out there with any new ones sitting on the shelf?

3. While the bodies have been discontinued, I heard some time ago that the lenses were still in production. But I haven't been able to confirm that recently. Does anyone know?

Thanks,
Hans.

i like very much the contax i bought some months before: the handling, functionality and the lenses are excellent. i have 5 lenses now and each one is good. also i have a zoerk adapter for my hassy lenses.
the mirrorslap is soft, esp. after i damped the mirror a little bit more ( which is easy to do ).
it allows now with the 80mm lense handheld shots with 1/60 and with much concentration even 1/30 sec.
it works without any cable with the emotion backs,- i am really very happy with the system.
i bought it cause several people here in LL talked so much about that camera, before i did never pay any attention to contax. the price for the body with prisma, wl-finder, batterygrip, 35/45/80/140/210 mm lenses and the zoerk adapter for hassy lenses was all together around 6500$.

no exact idea about prices from hassy, hy6/avi or 6008 for a similar quantity of gear, but i suppose there would not be a way to get the same even paying three times more.
so the contax was a way for me to save money without any compromise, it does everything i expect from a mf camera and it does it very good.

if it would break? i think i would go for a second body, there are many for reasonable prices around, but i am not afraid about that, i listened so much from people as khun_k who used his contax for years without any problems.

How did you accomplish the mirror damping?

Simple, set on 2 sec timer!

I am really surprised at comments about Contax being dark. Now, I do have the Bill Maxwell brightened finder glass, but I found the original quite good.

I have not owned, but borrowed and held the hasselblad and it was clumsy and vignetted etc.
The WLF of the Contax is far better
The prism finder is really bright and big - I have never heard your reatcion, but I will take at face value.

Many are using Contax and I don't think we are all crazy. The brightening of the finder will get you two stops. Try it/ Costs under hundred dollars
As for the lens, I use the 80mm f2 as my walk around and it is an incredible combination with the P25 (that I had before 45.) With 45 I see no lens limits

For my hassy lenses (30, 40 IF, 50's 180, 500) I have focus comfim.
I have two bodies, film backs, holders most lenses and have not had a single fail in 4 years.

Stick with it. You will like it!

Regards
Victor

i put some layers of black textil tape to the upper zone where the mirror hits the mirrorbox to damp the mirror impact more than the factory cellular material already does. i gain one stop with it and the mirror is significant more silent as he already is. easy little tuning job .....

Interesting. Thanks!

Ranier,


You and rethmeier need to change you log ins because you guys are confusing me.

You can be SinarMan and that way rethmeier can keep his, or something like that.


JR

James,
I'm happy to be called Willem!

I'm not sure how to change my login name?

N.B I enjoy your comments and post!

Where do you get the time?

Cheers,
Willem.

jemas,
who is ranier?

Used to live Monaco

That's funny


JR

no, that was Rainier!

another one whom with to be confused now!

Yes, maybe was Reiner

funny guy!

As far as I know, all the digital backs can be rotated on a Hasselblad V (can't confirm Phase, but will assume they do). Hasselblad, Leaf and Sinar - yes. Unless you mean without taking the back off the body, then no back does that. I believe the finders get in the way.

At any rate, the Hy6 will not allow for a non-release rotation either.

Steve Hendrix
PPR Digital

Steve,


"non-release rotation".


Nice term.

JR

Yep. This I find very disappointing. The rotating back has been brought like it was something revolutionary while in fact it actually is a copy of a very old system.

From the way it has been 'hyped' I kind of expected a 'non-release rotation'

My question and answer from Sinar:

"Rotating eMotion back on Hy6"

"Will you be able to rotate the e-75 when
attached to the Hy6?
Or do you have to remove,rotate and re-attach ?"


Dear Mr. Rethmeier

Thank you very much for your inquiry and for your interest in SINAR products.

Currently, the Sinar Hy6 adapters to any applicable digital camera back is made to be removed and re-attached in order to rotate the back from landscape to portrait and vice-versa. However, studies in a revolving adapter are being made.

Best regards
Andrea

I don't understand what's so difficult about making an actual rotating back. The Sinar eMotion mounted to a Rollei 6008 rotates, from what I've been told. So they obviously understand the concept. Shouldn't it just require two sets of electronic contacts between the back and camera, one in the vertical and one in the horizontal position?

I dont know if the 6008 rotates I think you should check this

In terms of why is it hard to do that is simple engineering or phisics surely

Basically there is not enough space to make the device and still get infinity focus

Everything is competing against everything else

THe shorter the camera the less retrofocal the lenses (and therefore better) and the easier it is to construct wides

Extra bits will imply a longer camera and difficulties at the lens end

Two ideas..

1) a rotational back could be made that would not get infinity with wides but the big makret for upright is all day fashion shoots

2) the digiback could have a protective front in the same way as 645 rollfilm backs have a protective slide to stop fogging (there must be room for one of those - think about it)

The HY6 is both blessed and cursed by being probably on basically the same chasis and lens positionings as the rollei

blessing..

lens compatability

development cost

curses

no rotation

difficult to make a wide that clears a 66 mirror

A thirrd idea a rotating prism 90 degrees

this would give both a regular view and a look in the top view for uprights

SMM

Would this ba a NRRDB or a NRRB?

I think considering that Mamiya managed to make a perectly reliable non-release rotating body in the RZ years ago, surely it isn't beyond today's technology. I think the manufacturers just aren't aware that it is really worthwhile. I also think it could be one of the distinctions between a MF system and a 35mm system which could help win a few sales from 35mm.

The RZ is 67 no ??

So the thing is much bigger sayt twice the size and therefore the tolerances four times less ??

And what is the widest lens ??

A three mm adition to thickness (that is two 1.5mm plates in effect) wont push the lens designers that much on a 67

To have the same effect on a 645 you would have to have a device that was maybe 1mm thick

I dont see it being a problem to do if one were designing from scratch but a huge problem given that the geometry of the HY6 was defined by the 6008 and its lenses

The distance from the mount face on the camera to the 'film/imaging' plane on my cameras mam and h1 is about 1mm

Try building a rotaing back that is 1mm thick and still rigid - no chance

If you look a Kapture group's rotating devices you will see that they move the film plane back and compensate by lifting the ground glass to keep viewfinder focus

this loses infinity on wide lenses as they admit

Just take the back of any MF camera an look at the distance from the back of the camera to the film plane and try to imagine the thiness required

Regardless of the reasons, having to remove the back and put it back on to change the orientation is for me a big issue.

In studio, on a semi calm day, maybe not that big of a problem, but on location having to go verticle to horizontal continually, it's just not a safe way to change.

I could never do this job by having to remove the back every time I changed the orientation.

http://www.russellrutherford.com/recent_miami/

And digital capture has opened up a whole new level of client expectations of the style and volume of images they expect, even high end campaigns that we use to shoot 2 or 3 set ups a day now have gone to double, triple the set ups.

Now I've only seen drawings of the camera and maybe it has more functionality than I know, but I don't see a right angle grip or button, so even using the prism won't allow for easy verticle shooting without removing the back.

I somewhat don't understand this, as my Contax, Canons and Nikons all make this very easily.

Shooting fast on location is the market db's are trying to address, just like Canon is trying (actually has) moved into the medium format segment.

What good is a 2fps camera if you have to stop and shield the back from the elements, take the back off, put the back on and then resume working?

JR

Yes I don't imagine its something you'd want to incorporate as an afterthought, but at the moment, having a separate body to DB I'd imagine its do-able in the MF concept, or will it be the 1DSmk4 that has an internally rotating chip? Was it the Leaf Volare that had a lever to rotate the chip? More than 1 way to skin a cat. (apologies to felineists)

David

Agreed - but I dont think it will happen on the Hy6

Again being fair it is still a useful feature - lets face it the for one my H1 is horrid upright on a tripod and many jobs I know I will be 90% upright if it is people so it is a start to be able to take a punt at the begining of the day

Doesnt help with a look in the top viewer though

I agree that these companies do seem to have little idea about using cameras outside of lab conditions

My summary is that the HY6 is just a rehashed rollie and therefore bound to be full of compormises unless a 66 chip occurs and even beyond then

Blad have done a bold thing in a way by fixing on the smaller imaging size becuase it buys them space to pull off either a rotating back or wider lenses in the long term - not that I care because my back is locked out from future developments

no one has actually made a camera yet with the current chipsize range in mind


SMM

Now reading that you have to remove the DB to rotate it makes the Hy6 a no go for me. I had such hopes for the Hy6.

I used the Hassy V series for a bit and the removing of the back was not happening for me. I used it in studio on a calm day. There is no way this would work for me on location. I shoot mostly celebrity stuff and it just won't work for me. The P25 is already slow in the capture rate, so removing the back to rotate is not something I look forward to.

I sold all my Contax and Pentax and got the H series and have been happy. I have had to adjust some stuff but nothing major. I still have my RZ stuff hoping for a solution to use my RZ with H1 mounted backs.

I use an H1/2 with a P25/45 now and I am happy with it.

instead of waiting for the next best thing, it is best to use what so many here have used and tested to their limits. It simple to read here. P45's in barely human conditions with sub zero weather, P30's in 100% humidity with sand whipping around, P25's in underwater housings shooting Great Whites, the list goes on.

Best of luck with all your choices. The best thing is to go out and shoot.

I have read so often about H1/H2 even H3 freezing or locking up and needing to be reset. Your post seems to imply you have none of those issues. Would that be correct? Thanks for any info.

Henry

My Blad locks about twice (two frames) a month

I have never upgraded the firmware - dont use a blad back - and half of my lenses have silver screws mening thier firmware is way out of date too

Seems like an acceptable rate to me

Low batteries (about once a month on the body) dont help

SMM

Hello Henry,

I guess I am one of the lucky ones. I think Michael can chime in as well.

The only problems I have are when I run the battery to the limit and that is when it starts to act up on me.

Other than that I have done the needed software updates by driving over to Hassy in NJ.

I wish a real Hassy rep would jump on the forum and talk about the particluar software updates. I went to NJ because I though I had to take everything with me to do lens updates an so forth and didn't want to risk shipping two bodies and five lenses.

All they did was update my bodies. They said the lens/screw thing was a Hoax/Myth/Urban Legend.

For someone investing into Hassy I would look into local support or how far Hassy is located for service. As with anything digital, I would try and find yourself a second body. My first body has never gone down on me and my second body only has 1500 shots on it as testament to my second body with over 30,000 shots on it in 18 months.

The Phases have been bullet proof and I know a lot of people like the Contax, but I for one had a lot of problems in the film days with my Contax bodies.

Best of luck with your selection.

RA