I have to say that Sinar's marketing efforts on the Hy6 are quite bizarre. I've just spent some time on the new Hy6 forum on the SinarCameras site, and it's almost worthless. Almost no information is volunteered. If you don't ask, they don't tell. The camera is due to be generally available in June, and we are still forced to play 20 questions just to get the most rudimentary information.
Where is the published roadmap and dates for introducing all of the associated peripherals and new lenses? For that matter, where is the list of peripherals that will be available for the Hy6? Where are the detailed datasheets? Where are the detailed whitepapers? Where are the sample images? Why isn't all this stuff just put on the website where everyone can find it, rather than being forced to ask question after question, and get only coy superficial marketing-speak answers in return? All I've seen is the most basic 4-page marketing brochure, and that is pathetic considering that the product is going on general sale in only 3 more months.
Thiery, this isn't directed at you. You've done a great job. But the company you work for needs to realize that product release is almost upon us and it's time to stop treating every little tidbit of information as some kind of secret that has to be pried out of some tedious question and answer session on the website.
And to add insult to injury, the Hy6 FAQ website insists that there is an Earlybird program here in the USA for the Hy6, but SinarBron keeps telling me there is no such thing.
There is a lot to like about the new Hy6. But the way Sinar is handling the rollout leaves me feeling very unsure about whether this is the kind of company I want to do business with.
Full Version: Frustration With Sinar
Funny that you mention it. I was thinking the same. I signed up for the forum as well. The questions aren't all answered and the answers indeed are cryptic and truly non-cooperative.
I approached the importer for Sinar over here about the early bird program but they just said they don't know anything and did not give it any further follow-up. This is in Europe.
You are right for a camera that is about to be released you expect better communication.
I approached the importer for Sinar over here about the early bird program but they just said they don't know anything and did not give it any further follow-up. This is in Europe.
You are right for a camera that is about to be released you expect better communication.
Let me make a clarification to my earlier post.
First of all, as I already stated, my frustration is in no way directed at Thiery, who has done a wonderful job representing Sinar on this forum. Every company should be lucky enough to have someone like him volunteering their time in this way. But I should have also stated that my comments were in no way directed at the USA SinarBron staff, in particular Michael Grey, who have been very helpful and forthcoming in my dealings with them. My apologies for failing to make that point earlier.
My frustration is with the parent company, and their seeming reluctance to pony up more information on this potentially wonderful new product. I get the sense, in reading thru the answers on the SinarCameras web site, that information on the Hy6 is treated as some kind of secret that has to be dribbled out to potential customers. I'm sure that's not Sinar's intent, but that's the way they come across on their web site. Sorry, but I just don't understand this approach to product marketing.
In my humble opinion, Sinar should have a published roadmap on their website. They should have a complete list of peripherals that will be available for the Hy6, and when. They should have a writeup on how the new AFD lenses fit into all this, even if the lenses are made by another company. They should have sample photos from their various backs. They should officially indicate what's going on with the new back updates to add live view and improved image quality. They should clearly state how warranty servicing is being handled, and by whom, in each country. They should clearly state what's included in their extended warranty extra cost add-on. I'm sure I've left out some stuff. I consider these things to be mandatory conditions for doing business.
I know I'm just one person, but I can't believe I'm the only person who is frustrated about the paucity of information coming out on the Hy6 from the Sinar parent company, and the way in which they are dribbeling it out. I offer these comments not with the intent of bad mouthing any particular individual, but in the hope that Sinar will take note of them and address some of the issues I've raised.
Sincerely,
Hans.
First of all, as I already stated, my frustration is in no way directed at Thiery, who has done a wonderful job representing Sinar on this forum. Every company should be lucky enough to have someone like him volunteering their time in this way. But I should have also stated that my comments were in no way directed at the USA SinarBron staff, in particular Michael Grey, who have been very helpful and forthcoming in my dealings with them. My apologies for failing to make that point earlier.
My frustration is with the parent company, and their seeming reluctance to pony up more information on this potentially wonderful new product. I get the sense, in reading thru the answers on the SinarCameras web site, that information on the Hy6 is treated as some kind of secret that has to be dribbled out to potential customers. I'm sure that's not Sinar's intent, but that's the way they come across on their web site. Sorry, but I just don't understand this approach to product marketing.
In my humble opinion, Sinar should have a published roadmap on their website. They should have a complete list of peripherals that will be available for the Hy6, and when. They should have a writeup on how the new AFD lenses fit into all this, even if the lenses are made by another company. They should have sample photos from their various backs. They should officially indicate what's going on with the new back updates to add live view and improved image quality. They should clearly state how warranty servicing is being handled, and by whom, in each country. They should clearly state what's included in their extended warranty extra cost add-on. I'm sure I've left out some stuff. I consider these things to be mandatory conditions for doing business.
I know I'm just one person, but I can't believe I'm the only person who is frustrated about the paucity of information coming out on the Hy6 from the Sinar parent company, and the way in which they are dribbeling it out. I offer these comments not with the intent of bad mouthing any particular individual, but in the hope that Sinar will take note of them and address some of the issues I've raised.
Sincerely,
Hans.
Do you remember the old days of cropped 11mp and 16mp chips?
Do you remember the manufacturers putting a big banner on thier websites saying this chip cuts your view in half and makes wide angles useless
No. neither do I.
Do you remember sinar and blad trumpeting computer free non tethered shooting and then you find out you need to use an image bank or tank
Do you remember those handy devices not being included in the the publicity pictures
I do.
Because the less you knew about the product the more attractive it seemed
I guess Sinar have no road map or a very bumpy one mainly becuse of the 66 mirror
Making a wide will be really hard 35 let alone 28 will be really hard with such a big mirror and square coverage
Making a rotating back will be really hard becuse of the space limitations of the 6008 geometry
ANd the thing wont line up with cameras like the P3 without a pile of engineering
So Sinar have three systems
One (hy6) flawed by lack of wide and movement exept through a discontinued camera the Xact
THe (M) flawed by p*ss poor synch speed and stupid cost
The CAB flawed by being movement only - those gigabucks lenses dont go on any MF bodies
How could they mess up like this
Simple they are trying to tinker with analogue design products (square pegs) and jam them into a round digital hole
They just dont seem to comprehend that most people can now only afford one back whereas before they could afford as many sizes of film as they desired and probably cant afford to duplicate on focal lenghts on thier lenses
Blad have most likely done the right thing by chucking all thier history in the bin even though they have dumped on a lot of people (including me) in the process
SMM
Do you remember the manufacturers putting a big banner on thier websites saying this chip cuts your view in half and makes wide angles useless
No. neither do I.
Do you remember sinar and blad trumpeting computer free non tethered shooting and then you find out you need to use an image bank or tank
Do you remember those handy devices not being included in the the publicity pictures
I do.
Because the less you knew about the product the more attractive it seemed
I guess Sinar have no road map or a very bumpy one mainly becuse of the 66 mirror
Making a wide will be really hard 35 let alone 28 will be really hard with such a big mirror and square coverage
Making a rotating back will be really hard becuse of the space limitations of the 6008 geometry
ANd the thing wont line up with cameras like the P3 without a pile of engineering
So Sinar have three systems
One (hy6) flawed by lack of wide and movement exept through a discontinued camera the Xact
THe (M) flawed by p*ss poor synch speed and stupid cost
The CAB flawed by being movement only - those gigabucks lenses dont go on any MF bodies
How could they mess up like this
Simple they are trying to tinker with analogue design products (square pegs) and jam them into a round digital hole
They just dont seem to comprehend that most people can now only afford one back whereas before they could afford as many sizes of film as they desired and probably cant afford to duplicate on focal lenghts on thier lenses
Blad have most likely done the right thing by chucking all thier history in the bin even though they have dumped on a lot of people (including me) in the process
SMM
QUOTE (Morgan_Moore @ Mar 23 2007, 01:46 PM)
One (hy6) flawed by lack of wide and movement 
Well, I don't think that's a valid criticism. The Hy6 isn't meant to be a technical view camera. It's a MF system, and I don't have any issues with that. In fact, that's exactly what I'm looking for.
My frustration isn't with the Hy6. By all indications, it's going to be a very nice addition to the MF scene, and I'm very seriously considering it for purchase this year. As for the lenses and the 6x6 mirror, all I can say is that I'm perfectly happy with 40mm on the wide end.
My frustation is simply with the information flow. My frustration is to some extent due to the fact that I'm used to dealing with companies like Nikon and Canon. Nikon and Canon bombard potential customers with detailed information and sample images. They use a retail sales model, which is a very different model than the MF manufacturers are using. The MF manufacturers are using a value added reseller sales model, and maybe the manufucturers see less of a need to provide all this high level information of the type I'm used to, and instead simply rely on the VARs to "get the word out". But as good as the VARs are, they can't provide their potential customers with information if Sinar itself isn't providing it to them.
Regards,
Hans.
QUOTE (Morgan_Moore @ Mar 23 2007, 01:46 PM)
Because the less you knew about the product the more attractive it seemed
SMM
SMM
Don't you think Sinar is fair because even though we need more they offer exactly what they have and when they have more there will be more, but for now
I suggest in stead of Sinar establishing their Sinar Forum they should better established the FM SINAR RADIO STATION and make it more interesting for multitasking
etc. until their beloved product reaches the stores.
QUOTE (Mort54 @ Mar 23 2007, 07:11 PM)
(lack of wide) Well, I don't think that's a valid criticism. The Hy6 isn't meant to be a technical view camera. It's a MF system, and I don't have any issues with that. In fact, that's exactly what I'm looking for.
Well if that what your looking for then it will be right for you
BUT
it isnt a technical view camera indeed but also without undoing a pile of mincy little screws (do that in front of a client on a windy day) your sinar mount back WONT FIT on a technical view camera (that isnt dicontunued) which is pretty bizzare buecuse sinar was once the market leader for technical view cameras
ANd at 40mm I can see lots of people needing thier back (we can only afford one) going on something that offers the same wideness as thier competitor - blad
---
In terms of marketing what do you need to know ??
Its a camera - some sharp lenses go on the front and some quality backs will go on the back - there is a mirror in it too so you can see and focus - there may even be a lightmeter - but who with a histogram uses those nowadays
---
In terms of the 'roadmap' I thnk they are struggling with future periferals specifically a wide lens - thats why they dont publicise thier map
QUOTE (Mort54 @ Mar, 09:08 PM)
I have to say that Sinar's marketing efforts on the Hy6 are quite bizarre. I've just spent some time on the new Hy6 forum on the SinarCameras site, and it's almost worthless. Almost no information is volunteered. If you don't ask, they don't tell. The camera is due to be generally available in June, and we are still forced to play 20 questions just to get the most rudimentary information.
Where is the published roadmap and dates for introducing all of the associated peripherals and new lenses? For that matter, where is the list of peripherals that will be available for the Hy6? Where are the detailed datasheets? Where are the detailed whitepapers? Where are the sample images? Why isn't all this stuff just put on the website where everyone can find it, rather than being forced to ask question after question, and get only coy superficial marketing-speak answers in return? All I've seen is the most basic 4-page marketing brochure, and that is pathetic considering that the product is going on general sale in only 3 more months.
Thiery, this isn't directed at you. You've done a great job. But the company you work for needs to realize that product release is almost upon us and it's time to stop treating every little tidbit of information as some kind of secret that has to be pried out of some tedious question and answer session on the website.
And to add insult to injury, the Hy6 FAQ website insists that there is an Earlybird program here in the USA for the Hy6, but SinarBron keeps telling me there is no such thing.
There is a lot to like about the new Hy6. But the way Sinar is handling the rollout leaves me feeling very unsure about whether this is the kind of company I want to do business with.
Where is the published roadmap and dates for introducing all of the associated peripherals and new lenses? For that matter, where is the list of peripherals that will be available for the Hy6? Where are the detailed datasheets? Where are the detailed whitepapers? Where are the sample images? Why isn't all this stuff just put on the website where everyone can find it, rather than being forced to ask question after question, and get only coy superficial marketing-speak answers in return? All I've seen is the most basic 4-page marketing brochure, and that is pathetic considering that the product is going on general sale in only 3 more months.
Thiery, this isn't directed at you. You've done a great job. But the company you work for needs to realize that product release is almost upon us and it's time to stop treating every little tidbit of information as some kind of secret that has to be pried out of some tedious question and answer session on the website.
And to add insult to injury, the Hy6 FAQ website insists that there is an Earlybird program here in the USA for the Hy6, but SinarBron keeps telling me there is no such thing.
There is a lot to like about the new Hy6. But the way Sinar is handling the rollout leaves me feeling very unsure about whether this is the kind of company I want to do business with.
just think what this would look like if they would have hired the hass marketing dept.! we would all get flooded with emails, shiny pics and who knows how they would play it up....
sinar, rollei (i know f&h..) have a looooong history of providing excellent product...if you can find out about, actually find it and afford it.....everything else nowadays considered most important in selling anything: marketing, hype, a solid ad campaign....well you won't get that from sinar or rollei (f&h).....the Hy6 has been more written about by the people who want to see it then by the people who should be interested in selling it....
the sinar back rotates on the 6008 just fine, but someone posting here said that becuase of the 6008 design it won't work....so even people who ARE interested don't know facts....the fact that the Hy6 won't allow rotation is another topic....that is simply insane...to actually take a step back....unless the Hy6 has a truly amazing 5zone AF system that actually works...why get the Hy6 over the 6008? but that is a different discussion....
it is very much like sinar/rollei NOT to make a lens that would not cover the entire area...hell why make a 6x6 if you are thinking digital only....it is a lot easier to make a 28 that covers a Dback then a 35mm that covers 6x6....
but from using schneider lenses on the 6008 i know that once a lens makes it into the market...it rocks...so the 35mm will be amazing....and i really think that if someone actually uses superWA (24,28, 35) with a Dback, a "4x5" system with movements is the better solution anyway....
is leaf providing more info? they sell also the same camera....
probably not sinar and not leaf have yet all the info you all are searching, cause the camera is develloped by jenoptik together with franke+heidecke ( rollei ).
just for interest awaked by this tread i logged myself in into the HY6 forum.
i cannot see unanswered questions there, there is a woman called andrea who answered polied all the questions i could see, dont see also any "kryptic" answers..
i really do not understand what is so unclear for so many people. i see more or less clear what features will have the camera and what ( wide ) lenses will be made. they plan a 35mm and not a 28mm lens.
probably not sinar and not leaf have yet all the info you all are searching, cause the camera is develloped by jenoptik together with franke+heidecke ( rollei ).
just for interest awaked by this tread i logged myself in into the HY6 forum.
i cannot see unanswered questions there, there is a woman called andrea who answered polied all the questions i could see, dont see also any "kryptic" answers..
i really do not understand what is so unclear for so many people. i see more or less clear what features will have the camera and what ( wide ) lenses will be made. they plan a 35mm and not a 28mm lens.
QUOTE (rehnniar @ Mar 23 2007, 06:23 PM)
i cannot see unanswered questions there....dont see also any "kryptic" answers..
Someone else made the comment about unanswered questions and kryptic answers. I just said that the answers provided were "coy superficial marketing-speak". OK, so that's a bit too harsh. Maybe way too harsh. But as I was going thru the questions and answers on their site yesterday, the main thought that kept popping into my head was "what a waste of time". Why should we be playing 20 questions with Sinar just to get basic information that they should be eagerly throwing at us. Maybe I'm just getting cranky in my old age, ahem, I meant in my mid-middle-age :-)
Regards,
Hans.
Dear Hans,
Thank you for your comments below: while I can understand your criticism on some of the issues mentioned, one should put some others in perspective.
We (Sinar) have a long history of launching new products and have learned our "lessons" with announcing and spreading information in the market too quickly. This is even more true with the new ways of communication and the Internet tool. Our aim is to give reliable, concise and precise information. In the case of the Sinar Hy6, I have myself informed all and any single question here since months back: most what can be asked has been asked and all of those asked questions have been answered by myself on this forum.
Since the (very same) questions conitnued to "come in", I suggested to give the possibility to ask directly from Sinar, which has been done since nearly 1 month now. While one can certainly put in question the "How" it is done and the sometimes "unpractical" way to access, all questions have been answered by our Andrea as precisely and rightly as possible.
We are currently in the phase to finalize our marketing plan and information to be communicated: this is a long process (too long for some, I have to admit) which has to be done the right way and with the right information. We are working on this intensively to get it out at the right time, about 1 1/2 to 2 months before the availability of the concerned product. It seems to me that this is fully understandable and right to do so. Others (competitors) choose a different way, and it is their right to do so.
Your comments have nevertheless and duly been forwarded to Sinar, to improve what can be.
Thanks and best regards,
Thierry
Thank you for your comments below: while I can understand your criticism on some of the issues mentioned, one should put some others in perspective.
We (Sinar) have a long history of launching new products and have learned our "lessons" with announcing and spreading information in the market too quickly. This is even more true with the new ways of communication and the Internet tool. Our aim is to give reliable, concise and precise information. In the case of the Sinar Hy6, I have myself informed all and any single question here since months back: most what can be asked has been asked and all of those asked questions have been answered by myself on this forum.
Since the (very same) questions conitnued to "come in", I suggested to give the possibility to ask directly from Sinar, which has been done since nearly 1 month now. While one can certainly put in question the "How" it is done and the sometimes "unpractical" way to access, all questions have been answered by our Andrea as precisely and rightly as possible.
We are currently in the phase to finalize our marketing plan and information to be communicated: this is a long process (too long for some, I have to admit) which has to be done the right way and with the right information. We are working on this intensively to get it out at the right time, about 1 1/2 to 2 months before the availability of the concerned product. It seems to me that this is fully understandable and right to do so. Others (competitors) choose a different way, and it is their right to do so.
Your comments have nevertheless and duly been forwarded to Sinar, to improve what can be.
Thanks and best regards,
Thierry
QUOTE (Mort54 @ Mar 23 2007, 12:08 PM)
I have to say that Sinar's marketing efforts on the Hy6 are quite bizarre. I've just spent some time on the new Hy6 forum on the SinarCameras site, and it's almost worthless. Almost no information is volunteered. If you don't ask, they don't tell. The camera is due to be generally available in June, and we are still forced to play 20 questions just to get the most rudimentary information.
Where is the published roadmap and dates for introducing all of the associated peripherals and new lenses? For that matter, where is the list of peripherals that will be available for the Hy6? Where are the detailed datasheets? Where are the detailed whitepapers? Where are the sample images? Why isn't all this stuff just put on the website where everyone can find it, rather than being forced to ask question after question, and get only coy superficial marketing-speak answers in return? All I've seen is the most basic 4-page marketing brochure, and that is pathetic considering that the product is going on general sale in only 3 more months.
Thiery, this isn't directed at you. You've done a great job. But the company you work for needs to realize that product release is almost upon us and it's time to stop treating every little tidbit of information as some kind of secret that has to be pried out of some tedious question and answer session on the website.
And to add insult to injury, the Hy6 FAQ website insists that there is an Earlybird program here in the USA for the Hy6, but SinarBron keeps telling me there is no such thing.
There is a lot to like about the new Hy6. But the way Sinar is handling the rollout leaves me feeling very unsure about whether this is the kind of company I want to do business with.
Where is the published roadmap and dates for introducing all of the associated peripherals and new lenses? For that matter, where is the list of peripherals that will be available for the Hy6? Where are the detailed datasheets? Where are the detailed whitepapers? Where are the sample images? Why isn't all this stuff just put on the website where everyone can find it, rather than being forced to ask question after question, and get only coy superficial marketing-speak answers in return? All I've seen is the most basic 4-page marketing brochure, and that is pathetic considering that the product is going on general sale in only 3 more months.
Thiery, this isn't directed at you. You've done a great job. But the company you work for needs to realize that product release is almost upon us and it's time to stop treating every little tidbit of information as some kind of secret that has to be pried out of some tedious question and answer session on the website.
And to add insult to injury, the Hy6 FAQ website insists that there is an Earlybird program here in the USA for the Hy6, but SinarBron keeps telling me there is no such thing.
There is a lot to like about the new Hy6. But the way Sinar is handling the rollout leaves me feeling very unsure about whether this is the kind of company I want to do business with.
QUOTE (thsinar @ Mar 23 2007, 10:34 PM)
Dear Hans,
.....while I can understand your criticism on some of the issues mentioned, one should put some others in perspective.
Thanks and best regards,
Thierry
.....while I can understand your criticism on some of the issues mentioned, one should put some others in perspective.
Thanks and best regards,
Thierry
Thanks for replying Thierry. I will try to be a little more patient.
QUOTE (Mort54 @ Mar 23 2007, 01:13 PM)
Let me make a clarification to my earlier post.
First of all, as I already stated, my frustration is in no way directed at Thiery, who has done a wonderful job representing Sinar on this forum. Every company should be lucky enough to have someone like him volunteering their time in this way. But I should have also stated that my comments were in no way directed at the USA SinarBron staff, in particular Michael Grey, who have been very helpful and forthcoming in my dealings with them. My apologies for failing to make that point earlier.
My frustration is with the parent company, and their seeming reluctance to pony up more information on this potentially wonderful new product. I get the sense, in reading thru the answers on the SinarCameras web site, that information on the Hy6 is treated as some kind of secret that has to be dribbled out to potential customers. I'm sure that's not Sinar's intent, but that's the way they come across on their web site. Sorry, but I just don't understand this approach to product marketing.
In my humble opinion, Sinar should have a published roadmap on their website. They should have a complete list of peripherals that will be available for the Hy6, and when. They should have a writeup on how the new AFD lenses fit into all this, even if the lenses are made by another company. They should have sample photos from their various backs. They should officially indicate what's going on with the new back updates to add live view and improved image quality. They should clearly state how warranty servicing is being handled, and by whom, in each country. They should clearly state what's included in their extended warranty extra cost add-on. I'm sure I've left out some stuff. I consider these things to be mandatory conditions for doing business.
I know I'm just one person, but I can't believe I'm the only person who is frustrated about the paucity of information coming out on the Hy6 from the Sinar parent company, and the way in which they are dribbeling it out. I offer these comments not with the intent of bad mouthing any particular individual, but in the hope that Sinar will take note of them and address some of the issues I've raised.
Sincerely,
Hans.
First of all, as I already stated, my frustration is in no way directed at Thiery, who has done a wonderful job representing Sinar on this forum. Every company should be lucky enough to have someone like him volunteering their time in this way. But I should have also stated that my comments were in no way directed at the USA SinarBron staff, in particular Michael Grey, who have been very helpful and forthcoming in my dealings with them. My apologies for failing to make that point earlier.
My frustration is with the parent company, and their seeming reluctance to pony up more information on this potentially wonderful new product. I get the sense, in reading thru the answers on the SinarCameras web site, that information on the Hy6 is treated as some kind of secret that has to be dribbled out to potential customers. I'm sure that's not Sinar's intent, but that's the way they come across on their web site. Sorry, but I just don't understand this approach to product marketing.
In my humble opinion, Sinar should have a published roadmap on their website. They should have a complete list of peripherals that will be available for the Hy6, and when. They should have a writeup on how the new AFD lenses fit into all this, even if the lenses are made by another company. They should have sample photos from their various backs. They should officially indicate what's going on with the new back updates to add live view and improved image quality. They should clearly state how warranty servicing is being handled, and by whom, in each country. They should clearly state what's included in their extended warranty extra cost add-on. I'm sure I've left out some stuff. I consider these things to be mandatory conditions for doing business.
I know I'm just one person, but I can't believe I'm the only person who is frustrated about the paucity of information coming out on the Hy6 from the Sinar parent company, and the way in which they are dribbeling it out. I offer these comments not with the intent of bad mouthing any particular individual, but in the hope that Sinar will take note of them and address some of the issues I've raised.
Sincerely,
Hans.
You are not alone in this. I have experienced the same frustration since last year when Hy6 was
announced at Photokina which was followed by the "Early Bird Special" offer. It was early in February this year when I found out that such an offer was never meant for us in USA. More recently according to Hy6 Forum an "Early Bird Special" is available in USA, but neither Sinar Bron Imaging nor any Sinar dealers know anything about it. "We'll look into it" is the usual respose.
In stark contrast to Thiery's friendly and personable replies, Sinar's Hy6 Forum resposes are polite, but cold and aloof. Apart from these personal matters, I am concerned about the quality of tech support based on such restrained release of information about a product that is about to be
launched.
As a long time fan of Sinar and Schneider products I hope this project goes well, but in this case I will follow the lead of experienced pros and wait for a year or two until there is a proven track record.
QUOTE (pss @ Mar 23 2007, 09:40 PM)
the sinar back rotates on the 6008 just fine, but someone posting here said that becuase of the 6008 design it won't work
it is very much like sinar/rollei NOT to make a lens that would not cover the entire area...hell why make a 6x6 if you are thinking digital only....
it is very much like sinar/rollei NOT to make a lens that would not cover the entire area...hell why make a 6x6 if you are thinking digital only....
-I meant rotation without removal from the body and exposing the sensor to the elements
The 6008 design defined the position of the lenses and 'film' plane leaving not enough room for a spinning back mechanism
Or can you clarify that the back does not need to come off the 6008
-All the lenses will need to cover 66 (nearlty) because they have to work in either orientation
And the size of the 66 mirror still needs to be cleared which means the lenses need to be another 15mm more retrofocal than on a 645 design (unless they did some mirror up only lenses like the nikkor fisheye) - there are 'no plans' for a 28 lens
-the AF is center point even if it uses 5 sensors to do its calulations
All of this is, to my understanding, clarified on the HY6 forum
SMM
QUOTE (Mort54 @ Mar 24 2007, 01:54 AM)
Someone else made the comment about unanswered questions and kryptic answers. I just said that the answers provided were "coy superficial marketing-speak". OK, so that's a bit too harsh. Maybe way too harsh. But as I was going thru the questions and answers on their site yesterday, the main thought that kept popping into my head was "what a waste of time". Why should we be playing 20 questions with Sinar just to get basic information that they should be eagerly throwing at us. Maybe I'm just getting cranky in my old age, ahem, I meant in my mid-middle-age :-)
Regards,
Hans.
Regards,
Hans.
I said that. Maybe kryptic isn't the right word. Answers are mostly in the form of one-liners (or otherwise really short) where the underlying thought of the question is very clear and a somewhat longer more helpful answer would be more appropriate. This might also have to do with the way the forum has been setup, design wise nice but not very handy to get a good overview of what is going on and not a lot of room for giving longer answers.
As I said not all questions are answered (at least a couple of days ago they weren't)
Hans described it better probably. The way information is fed is like playing 20 questions. If you don't ask we will not tell you.
The concept of relying on VAR's to spread the word might work for very specialised equipment and when all Var's everywhere are reliable and willing to do so. It is however a very weak link and I for one would not want to base the communication of my new product on Var's.
I am not making any judgement on the Hy6 at this moment (there is n't much to judge upon) but the way it is being brought doesn't seem to follow the 6 P's of communication.
Rollei products are really good however but almost nobody uses them in contrast to for instance Hass. When Sinar & Leaf are not careful this might happen to them as well which I would really piss me of. I think everybody is better of when both the Hy6 as well as the Afi will be a great succes from the start.
i really do not want to defend the hy6 marketing,- but my personal interest in the hy6/avi is not too high, cause i am more than content with my contax 645 system ..... maybe here is also part of the reason why i do not understand where the problem is with the hy6 infos.
..... so many discussion have appeared in LL about that camera, that even i ( who is not very interested in this subject ) know now so much about the hy ... more than about any mf camera which i have not owned.
also in the sinar forum i cannot see any question which has not been asked here before ( and answered by thierry or yaya ) several times.
..... so many discussion have appeared in LL about that camera, that even i ( who is not very interested in this subject ) know now so much about the hy ... more than about any mf camera which i have not owned.
also in the sinar forum i cannot see any question which has not been asked here before ( and answered by thierry or yaya ) several times.
Yes, It's been a lot of discussion about all this Hy6 thing the last months. I was very interestedin the new Hy6, but I ended up selling all my rollei stuff for a month ago. I sincerely think the whole sinar/leaf/rollei project is a disaster that's only confusing photographers.
We need to thing about what we need for our job and try to get away from this crazy marketed world.
Personally I've decided to go back to my beautiful 503CW and a fantastic new purchased Contax 645. The Hy6 is dead for me now. If it happens one day, well then we'll see...
Samuel
We need to thing about what we need for our job and try to get away from this crazy marketed world.
Personally I've decided to go back to my beautiful 503CW and a fantastic new purchased Contax 645. The Hy6 is dead for me now. If it happens one day, well then we'll see...
Samuel
i will start thinking about it if i see one and hold it in my hands...
My goodness people, I think we're being a little harsh here.
I was grateful that Thierry suggested the forum to Sinar HQ, and they went ahead and set it up. I know of no other company that has extended such a hand to its customer base, particularly on an unannounced product.
Thierry said that all questions would be answered within a business day, and this is basically what I have observed. I don't know if the folks who are claiming not all the questions were answered have checked back the following day, but on those occasions where I have seen an unanswered question, I checked back the next day and found that Andrea had answered every question.
Then complaints surfaced about the answers being "coy superficial marketing speak", "cryptic" and "cold and aloof". I encourage folks to log on and see for themselves. In my opinion, the answers are short, clear, and professional. Perhaps most importantly, I have confidence that they are *accurate*, coming directly from Sinar from what appears to be a knowledgeable Sinar employee. (Let us also not assume that everyone's first language is English...)
I have no relationship with Sinar. I just read this thread and felt that we hadn't been very fair, or even accurate in the criticism that was leveled (somewhat the opposite, in fact).
Would I like to see a more conventional and complete release of information on a system that I too am considering purchasing? Yes, of course. The "Early Bird Special" program appears to be a bit of a fiasco at least for US-based customers, if reports in this thread are accurate-- of course people should voice their opinions about this.
But I also hope we can also give credit where it is due, rather than inaccurately (IMHO) criticizing the efforts Sinar is making. Some of their folks at least, seem to be going out of their way to keep us informed and connected with what must be a difficult and complex process. I'd like to say 'thank you' to them for that.
Just my 2 cents,
Brad
I was grateful that Thierry suggested the forum to Sinar HQ, and they went ahead and set it up. I know of no other company that has extended such a hand to its customer base, particularly on an unannounced product.
Thierry said that all questions would be answered within a business day, and this is basically what I have observed. I don't know if the folks who are claiming not all the questions were answered have checked back the following day, but on those occasions where I have seen an unanswered question, I checked back the next day and found that Andrea had answered every question.
Then complaints surfaced about the answers being "coy superficial marketing speak", "cryptic" and "cold and aloof". I encourage folks to log on and see for themselves. In my opinion, the answers are short, clear, and professional. Perhaps most importantly, I have confidence that they are *accurate*, coming directly from Sinar from what appears to be a knowledgeable Sinar employee. (Let us also not assume that everyone's first language is English...)
I have no relationship with Sinar. I just read this thread and felt that we hadn't been very fair, or even accurate in the criticism that was leveled (somewhat the opposite, in fact).
Would I like to see a more conventional and complete release of information on a system that I too am considering purchasing? Yes, of course. The "Early Bird Special" program appears to be a bit of a fiasco at least for US-based customers, if reports in this thread are accurate-- of course people should voice their opinions about this.
But I also hope we can also give credit where it is due, rather than inaccurately (IMHO) criticizing the efforts Sinar is making. Some of their folks at least, seem to be going out of their way to keep us informed and connected with what must be a difficult and complex process. I'd like to say 'thank you' to them for that.
Just my 2 cents,
Brad
QUOTE (Morgan_Moore @ Mar, 08:56 PM)
-I meant rotation without removal from the body and exposing the sensor to the elements
The 6008 design defined the position of the lenses and 'film' plane leaving not enough room for a spinning back mechanism
Or can you clarify that the back does not need to come off the 6008
-All the lenses will need to cover 66 (nearlty) because they have to work in either orientation
And the size of the 66 mirror still needs to be cleared which means the lenses need to be another 15mm more retrofocal than on a 645 design (unless they did some mirror up only lenses like the nikkor fisheye) - there are 'no plans' for a 28 lens
-the AF is center point even if it uses 5 sensors to do its calulations
All of this is, to my understanding, clarified on the HY6 forum
SMM
The 6008 design defined the position of the lenses and 'film' plane leaving not enough room for a spinning back mechanism
Or can you clarify that the back does not need to come off the 6008
-All the lenses will need to cover 66 (nearlty) because they have to work in either orientation
And the size of the 66 mirror still needs to be cleared which means the lenses need to be another 15mm more retrofocal than on a 645 design (unless they did some mirror up only lenses like the nikkor fisheye) - there are 'no plans' for a 28 lens
-the AF is center point even if it uses 5 sensors to do its calulations
All of this is, to my understanding, clarified on the HY6 forum
SMM
the 6008 supports rotation without taking the back off...
this is (was) actually clearly shown on the rollei website and in the pdf....
the circle of illumination is just that..a circle...so it does not matter which way the back is rotated....for a DMF back....but of course covering 6x6 is whole different story....
from what i have heard and have seen the Hy6 will have 5 zone af....but i also thought that the back would rotate..so what do i know....
QUOTE (samuel_js @ Mar, 05:31 AM)
Yes, It's been a lot of discussion about all this Hy6 thing the last months. I was very interestedin the new Hy6, but I ended up selling all my rollei stuff for a month ago. I sincerely think the whole sinar/leaf/rollei project is a disaster that's only confusing photographers.
We need to thing about what we need for our job and try to get away from this crazy marketed world.
Personally I've decided to go back to my beautiful 503CW and a fantastic new purchased Contax 645. The Hy6 is dead for me now. If it happens one day, well then we'll see...
Samuel
We need to thing about what we need for our job and try to get away from this crazy marketed world.
Personally I've decided to go back to my beautiful 503CW and a fantastic new purchased Contax 645. The Hy6 is dead for me now. If it happens one day, well then we'll see...
Samuel
until a camera is in the market and proven it is just a fun thing to have a discussion about....i sold my rollei stuff a couple of months ago....i need something to shoot with..now..that works....i still haven't given up on the Hy6...yet...but as an actual tool it won't be interesting for me until it has shipped in quantities and has proven to be stable....until then it is a toy....
QUOTE (pss @ Mar 24 2007, 04:29 PM)
until a camera is in the market and proven it is just a fun thing to have a discussion about....i sold my rollei stuff a couple of months ago....i need something to shoot with..now..that works....i still haven't given up on the Hy6...yet...but as an actual tool it won't be interesting for me until it has shipped in quantities and has proven to be stable....until then it is a toy....
Truer words have never been spoken.
All this transition to digital has been very complicated. We all know that. When I discuss these issues, my allegiance is always to the photographers' perspective, and what serves him the best. While it's probably human nature to be excited about something coming down the pike, it's also a good reminder that there's money on the table here, and no one wants a surprise in the middle of a job.
I have learned the hard way -- it's best to stay at least one, if not two, steps off of the bleeding edge. As advanced as this stuff is, in the big picture, it's still in its infancy. It's best, in my opinion, to only buy gear that's had at least a year of solid shipping, in quantity, so the bugs and kinks can be made known. No one wants to be a beta tester (any more).
I cannot understand how these companies announce a product, and then, months later, decide to get around to a marketing program. Medium format seems to be especially keen to this behavior; it's almost like the only thing that matters to them is designing the product, and not selling it, supporting it, or communicating to customers about the details. Thus, as a result, a track record of distrust is developed, and forums like this pop up, where truth and actual performance of a product can be discussed. Sad that it's that way, but it is. While these company reps come on here, and while they're nice people, still, it does not justify the backassward mentality of many of the companies they represent. Again, to everyone, buyer beware. If you think there's frustration now, just wait until the camera ships. If you've got jobs to be shot NOW, the best approach is to look backward, to what's actually being used today, and what has a solid track record.
Just one opinion.
QUOTE (bradleygibson @ Mar 24 2007, 10:41 AM)
My goodness people, I think we're being a little harsh here.
Perhaps most importantly, I have confidence that they are *accurate*, coming directly from Sinar from what appears to be a knowledgeable Sinar employee.
Brad
Perhaps most importantly, I have confidence that they are *accurate*, coming directly from Sinar from what appears to be a knowledgeable Sinar employee.
Brad
Since I opened this can of worms, and am now feeling a little guilty for doing so, I should probably keep my big mouth shut :-) But I'll chance a few more comments.
The only answer that struck me as incorrect is the one about the Early Bird special being available in the US. I've been told twice now by SinarBron that this isn't the case. So as far as I know, that answer is incorrect. I pointed this out on their forum, but I haven't checked back today to see if they responded. The whole early bird thing may be moot now anyway, since general availability is supposedly scheduled for June, only three months away, so surely I can hold off any purchase decision for another three months. If I had needed a system last year, it would have been a much more important consideration for me.
Sinar should be applauded for providing their Hy6 faq (despite my earlier comments), since there is a huge amount of interest in the product. However, I still feel the implementation of this faq, and the general roll-out of information, leaves a lot to be desired. But I've already belabored that point, and Thierry has responded and indicated that more comprehensive information is coming as soon as possible. Fair enough. I would suggest that Andrea consolidate the main questions and answers so far into a single downloadable .pdf, since the current faq format is a little tedious and there are a good bit of duplicate questions and answers.
QUOTE (Mort54 @ Mar 24 2007, 06:18 PM)
The only answer that struck me as incorrect is the one about the Early Bird special being available in the US. I've been told twice now by SinarBron that this isn't the case. So as far as I know, that answer is incorrect. I pointed this out on their forum, but I haven't checked back today to see if they responded. The whole early bird thing may be moot now anyway, since general availability is supposedly scheduled for June, only three months away, so surely I can hold off any purchase decision for another three months. If I had needed a system last year, it would have been a much more important consideration for me.
There is definitely no early bird special at the moment. We did not participate in the early bird program that was promoted elsewhere in the 4th quarter of 2006. We decided to not participate for a number of reasons. The biggest reason is that since Hy6 pricing had not been established yet, Sinar Bron did not feel comfortable setting a price for an upgrade. The company felt we would have to set the price artificially high and would do a disservice to our customers.
Sinar had only become the distributor of Rollei in October. There were a number of factors that delayed our pricing on Rollei. Quickly changing currencies, the previous importer dumping stock at artificially low prices, and trying to figure out how we would establish a dealer network vs existing dealers.
Sinar Bron has rarely followed the promos elsewhere in the world on either Sinar or Broncolor. Typically we negotiate our own promotions based on the needs of the US market. We are lucky enough to be larger than most distributors and can do so.
Hope that cleared up some of the confusion on the Rollei Earlybird Promo in the US.
Thanks,
Matt LaPointe
Sinar Bron Imaging
National Sales Support Specialist
(219) 670-9905
mlapointe@sinarbron.com
QUOTE (mattlap2 @ Mar, 02:00 PM)
There is definitely no early bird special at the moment. We did not participate in the early bird program that was promoted elsewhere in the 4th quarter of 2006. We decided to not participate for a number of reasons. The biggest reason is that since Hy6 pricing had not been established yet, Sinar Bron did not feel comfortable setting a price for an upgrade. The company felt we would have to set the price artificially high and would do a disservice to our customers.
Sinar had only become the distributor of Rollei in October. There were a number of factors that delayed our pricing on Rollei. Quickly changing currencies, the previous importer dumping stock at artificially low prices, and trying to figure out how we would establish a dealer network vs existing dealers.
Sinar Bron has rarely followed the promos elsewhere in the world on either Sinar or Broncolor. Typically we negotiate our own promotions based on the needs of the US market. We are lucky enough to be larger than most distributors and can do so.
Hope that cleared up some of the confusion on the Rollei Earlybird Promo in the US.
Thanks,
Matt LaPointe
Sinar Bron Imaging
National Sales Support Specialist
mlapointe@sinarbron.com
Sinar had only become the distributor of Rollei in October. There were a number of factors that delayed our pricing on Rollei. Quickly changing currencies, the previous importer dumping stock at artificially low prices, and trying to figure out how we would establish a dealer network vs existing dealers.
Sinar Bron has rarely followed the promos elsewhere in the world on either Sinar or Broncolor. Typically we negotiate our own promotions based on the needs of the US market. We are lucky enough to be larger than most distributors and can do so.
Hope that cleared up some of the confusion on the Rollei Earlybird Promo in the US.
Thanks,
Matt LaPointe
Sinar Bron Imaging
National Sales Support Specialist
mlapointe@sinarbron.com
so what would the price of a 6008/emotion75 and 6008/emotion22 be right now? all of these items are available and should make it very easy for someone interested in the HY6 to step up (or over) once the new body ships...
QUOTE (Mark_Tucker @ Mar 24 2007, 05:14 PM)
Truer words have never been spoken.
I cannot understand how these companies announce a product, and then, months later, decide to get around to a marketing program. Medium format seems to be especially keen to this behavior; it's almost like the only thing that matters to them is designing the product, and not selling it, supporting it, or communicating to customers about the details. Thus, as a result, a track record of distrust is developed, and forums like this pop up, where truth and actual performance of a product can be discussed. Sad that it's that way, but it is. While these company reps come on here, and while they're nice people, still, it does not justify the backassward mentality of many of the companies they represent. Again, to everyone, buyer beware. If you think there's frustration now, just wait until the camera ships. If you've got jobs to be shot NOW, the best approach is to look backward, to what's actually being used today, and what has a solid track record.
Just one opinion.
I cannot understand how these companies announce a product, and then, months later, decide to get around to a marketing program. Medium format seems to be especially keen to this behavior; it's almost like the only thing that matters to them is designing the product, and not selling it, supporting it, or communicating to customers about the details. Thus, as a result, a track record of distrust is developed, and forums like this pop up, where truth and actual performance of a product can be discussed. Sad that it's that way, but it is. While these company reps come on here, and while they're nice people, still, it does not justify the backassward mentality of many of the companies they represent. Again, to everyone, buyer beware. If you think there's frustration now, just wait until the camera ships. If you've got jobs to be shot NOW, the best approach is to look backward, to what's actually being used today, and what has a solid track record.
Just one opinion.
Mark,
You do slug quite hard, I must say !
What's happening here is that the companies are "preannouncing". A company hears Kodak will produce an 80MP chip, maybe they've never seen one, there are no samples, but they still announce digital back built around this paper product. As release date draws near, their customers will then be enticed by the marketing campaign to accept whatever *really* comes down the engineering chute. Maybe the 80 MP chip is so expensive that only 100 can ever be made at a bearable loss ? Then an alternative 60MP chip will be trotted out for the *real profitable* sales that bring in the money.
Which explains why the (condensed) tech specs come first, and then the marketing plan: The marketing plan is built around the real product which can be shipped and will make money. Also, haven't you noticed that sample images are always delivered at the last minute ? If chips were sampling, preliminary imagery would come much sooner
Pre-announcing is a predatory practice which got IBM in bad trouble many years ago and had them signing a consent decree in the end. In this sense, the digital back guys are following in the footsteps of a master.
Edmund
PS - this "preannouncement" rant DOES NOT APPLY TO SINAR because they showed engineering samples, detailed specs etc of *exactly* what they will sell.
Edmund
Dear Samuel,
I honestly would like to know from you in what and why the whole Hy6 project is a disaster for you?
Sinar has presented this new camera 6x6 system during the last Photokina: it was presented as a project in its final stages and promised to be available during the 2nd half of 2007.
I am truely asking myself what can possibly make one react like you and criticize a camera or companies involved in the developement of this project.
Nothing has been said which was not true, no false market introduction has been given nor has any wrong promise(s) been made, any single question asked on this forum has been and still is answered.
Don't you think that the "crazy marketed world" you are mentioning is created by the very same trumpeting and speaking loud about non-available products? And that those informing honestly and at a pace in accordance with the project's evolution should be given some credit for not misleading anybody?
Thanks for looking at it from another perspective.
Best regards,
Thierry
I honestly would like to know from you in what and why the whole Hy6 project is a disaster for you?
Sinar has presented this new camera 6x6 system during the last Photokina: it was presented as a project in its final stages and promised to be available during the 2nd half of 2007.
I am truely asking myself what can possibly make one react like you and criticize a camera or companies involved in the developement of this project.
Nothing has been said which was not true, no false market introduction has been given nor has any wrong promise(s) been made, any single question asked on this forum has been and still is answered.
Don't you think that the "crazy marketed world" you are mentioning is created by the very same trumpeting and speaking loud about non-available products? And that those informing honestly and at a pace in accordance with the project's evolution should be given some credit for not misleading anybody?
Thanks for looking at it from another perspective.
Best regards,
Thierry
QUOTE (samuel_js @ Mar 24 2007, 08:31 PM)
Yes, It's been a lot of discussion about all this Hy6 thing the last months. I was very interestedin the new Hy6, but I ended up selling all my rollei stuff for a month ago. I sincerely think the whole sinar/leaf/rollei project is a disaster that's only confusing photographers.
We need to thing about what we need for our job and try to get away from this crazy marketed world.
Personally I've decided to go back to my beautiful 503CW and a fantastic new purchased Contax 645. The Hy6 is dead for me now. If it happens one day, well then we'll see...
Samuel
We need to thing about what we need for our job and try to get away from this crazy marketed world.
Personally I've decided to go back to my beautiful 503CW and a fantastic new purchased Contax 645. The Hy6 is dead for me now. If it happens one day, well then we'll see...
Samuel
Dear Brad,
Thank you on behalf of those all making a lot of efforts at Sinar!
We truely and honestly do our best, trying as a first aim not to mislead. I know the person behind the answers given in the tread on Sinar's homepage for working with him since 15 years: I can assure you that the information provided is absolutely accurate and true.
I am personnaly checking on a daily basis and while one can certainly not say that Sinar is giving an overwhelming amount of information, all questions are answered in a precise, accurate and true way.
Thanks again for your support.
Thierry
Thank you on behalf of those all making a lot of efforts at Sinar!
We truely and honestly do our best, trying as a first aim not to mislead. I know the person behind the answers given in the tread on Sinar's homepage for working with him since 15 years: I can assure you that the information provided is absolutely accurate and true.
I am personnaly checking on a daily basis and while one can certainly not say that Sinar is giving an overwhelming amount of information, all questions are answered in a precise, accurate and true way.
Thanks again for your support.
Thierry
QUOTE (bradleygibson @ Mar 24 2007, 10:41 PM)
My goodness people, I think we're being a little harsh here.
I was grateful that Thierry suggested the forum to Sinar HQ, and they went ahead and set it up. I know of no other company that has extended such a hand to its customer base, particularly on an unannounced product.
Thierry said that all questions would be answered within a business day, and this is basically what I have observed. I don't know if the folks who are claiming not all the questions were answered have checked back the following day, but on those occasions where I have seen an unanswered question, I checked back the next day and found that Andrea had answered every question.
Then complaints surfaced about the answers being "coy superficial marketing speak", "cryptic" and "cold and aloof". I encourage folks to log on and see for themselves. In my opinion, the answers are short, clear, and professional. Perhaps most importantly, I have confidence that they are *accurate*, coming directly from Sinar from what appears to be a knowledgeable Sinar employee. (Let us also not assume that everyone's first language is English...)
I have no relationship with Sinar. I just read this thread and felt that we hadn't been very fair, or even accurate in the criticism that was leveled (somewhat the opposite, in fact).
Would I like to see a more conventional and complete release of information on a system that I too am considering purchasing? Yes, of course. The "Early Bird Special" program appears to be a bit of a fiasco at least for US-based customers, if reports in this thread are accurate-- of course people should voice their opinions about this.
But I also hope we can also give credit where it is due, rather than inaccurately (IMHO) criticizing the efforts Sinar is making. Some of their folks at least, seem to be going out of their way to keep us informed and connected with what must be a difficult and complex process. I'd like to say 'thank you' to them for that.
Just my 2 cents,
Brad
I was grateful that Thierry suggested the forum to Sinar HQ, and they went ahead and set it up. I know of no other company that has extended such a hand to its customer base, particularly on an unannounced product.
Thierry said that all questions would be answered within a business day, and this is basically what I have observed. I don't know if the folks who are claiming not all the questions were answered have checked back the following day, but on those occasions where I have seen an unanswered question, I checked back the next day and found that Andrea had answered every question.
Then complaints surfaced about the answers being "coy superficial marketing speak", "cryptic" and "cold and aloof". I encourage folks to log on and see for themselves. In my opinion, the answers are short, clear, and professional. Perhaps most importantly, I have confidence that they are *accurate*, coming directly from Sinar from what appears to be a knowledgeable Sinar employee. (Let us also not assume that everyone's first language is English...)
I have no relationship with Sinar. I just read this thread and felt that we hadn't been very fair, or even accurate in the criticism that was leveled (somewhat the opposite, in fact).
Would I like to see a more conventional and complete release of information on a system that I too am considering purchasing? Yes, of course. The "Early Bird Special" program appears to be a bit of a fiasco at least for US-based customers, if reports in this thread are accurate-- of course people should voice their opinions about this.
But I also hope we can also give credit where it is due, rather than inaccurately (IMHO) criticizing the efforts Sinar is making. Some of their folks at least, seem to be going out of their way to keep us informed and connected with what must be a difficult and complex process. I'd like to say 'thank you' to them for that.
Just my 2 cents,
Brad
Dear Hans,
The FAQ is scheduled for a whole month, ending March 31st. Thereafter it is planed to have a selection of the most important questions/answers to be summarized and published officially by Sinar.
I shall myself make sure that this will be published as well here on this forum.
Best regards,
Thierry
The FAQ is scheduled for a whole month, ending March 31st. Thereafter it is planed to have a selection of the most important questions/answers to be summarized and published officially by Sinar.
I shall myself make sure that this will be published as well here on this forum.
Best regards,
Thierry
QUOTE (Mort54 @ Mar 25 2007, 01:18 AM)
I would suggest that Andrea consolidate the main questions and answers so far into a single downloadable .pdf, since the current faq format is a little tedious and there are a good bit of duplicate questions and answers.
QUOTE (pss @ Mar 24 2007, 10:17 PM)
so what would the price of a 6008/emotion75 and 6008/emotion22 be right now? all of these items are available and should make it very easy for someone interested in the HY6 to step up (or over) once the new body ships...
Currently we have priced the Rollei 6008 Kit extremely low. There is no upgrade path at these prices. I am sure there will be a bundle price for a back with a Hy6 when the Hy6 finally ships.
Currently the Price for a
6008 AF kit w/ 80mm lens and WL finder is $3587.00
An Emotion 75 is $32,000 and the Rollei 6008 Interface kit is $2397.00
An Emotion 22 is $21,000 and the Rollei 6008 Interface kit is $2397.00
Matt LaPointe
Sinar Bron Imaging
National Sales Support Specialist
(219) 670-9905
mlapointe@sinarbron.com
Well, I said very clear to Sinar that my intentions were to go Hy6. I wanted to know prices and digital/film options. They said they would call me. Never heard from them... I choose to go Hasselblad instead. Everything they do is clear and transparent and they're here in Sweden.
I think it's very sad that the beautifull 6008 will be difussed into three different cameras now.
I wish it was a Rollei Hy6 with open optinos for the digital back. It was a short beautiful dream and now I woke up and feel very dissapointed... That's all.
Best Regards
Samuel
I think it's very sad that the beautifull 6008 will be difussed into three different cameras now.
I wish it was a Rollei Hy6 with open optinos for the digital back. It was a short beautiful dream and now I woke up and feel very dissapointed... That's all.
Best Regards
Samuel
QUOTE (thsinar @ Mar 25 2007, 02:36 AM)
Dear Samuel,
I honestly would like to know from you in what and why the whole Hy6 project is a disaster for you?
Sinar has presented this new camera 6x6 system during the last Photokina: it was presented as a project in its final stages and promised to be available during the 2nd half of 2007.
I am truely asking myself what can possibly make one react like you and criticize a camera or companies involved in the developement of this project.
Nothing has been said which was not true, no false market introduction has been given nor has any wrong promise(s) been made, any single question asked on this forum has been and still is answered.
Don't you think that the "crazy marketed world" you are mentioning is created by the very same trumpeting and speaking loud about non-available products? And that those informing honestly and at a pace in accordance with the project's evolution should be given some credit for not misleading anybody?
Thanks for looking at it from another perspective.
Best regards,
Thierry
I honestly would like to know from you in what and why the whole Hy6 project is a disaster for you?
Sinar has presented this new camera 6x6 system during the last Photokina: it was presented as a project in its final stages and promised to be available during the 2nd half of 2007.
I am truely asking myself what can possibly make one react like you and criticize a camera or companies involved in the developement of this project.
Nothing has been said which was not true, no false market introduction has been given nor has any wrong promise(s) been made, any single question asked on this forum has been and still is answered.
Don't you think that the "crazy marketed world" you are mentioning is created by the very same trumpeting and speaking loud about non-available products? And that those informing honestly and at a pace in accordance with the project's evolution should be given some credit for not misleading anybody?
Thanks for looking at it from another perspective.
Best regards,
Thierry
QUOTE (mattlap2 @ Mar 24 2007, 05:00 PM)
There is definitely no early bird special at the moment.....Hope that cleared up some of the confusion on the Rollei Earlybird Promo in the US.
Thanks,
Matt LaPointe
Sinar Bron Imaging
National Sales Support Specialist
(219) 670-9905
mlapointe@sinarbron.com
Thanks,
Matt LaPointe
Sinar Bron Imaging
National Sales Support Specialist
(219) 670-9905
mlapointe@sinarbron.com
Hi Matt. Thanks for clarifying the issue, and sorry I caused such a ruckus with this thread. Michael Gray and I have been in touch several times, and he also passed the Early Bird information on to me. I expect to have my request for quote to Jack Strobel by COB tomorrow (or at least before the end of the day). I'll include any remaining questions I have to him at that time as well (mostly having to do with maintenance, repair, and warranty issues). I'll CC Michael as well, since I have a proposal to make as an alternative to the Early Bird program.
Thanks again,
Hans.
Dear Samuel,
I don't get you clearly and there seems to be a confusion:
- The Rollei 6008 will remain the 6008 and not be split in 3 cameras or brands! And the 6008 is as open a system for digital backs as is Hasselblad with its 503 or Contax or any other brand.
- The Hy6 is a new camera system: it is a new platform "open" for 2 MFDB's, while the H3D is not open. And last but not at all least, it can accept almost ALL accessories and lenses (AF or not) from the 6008: so far I could understand, the H3D has not at all this possbility.
- Sinar distributor in Sweden: Molander in Stokholm are a serious company. If they did not contact you (which I shall check directly with them), it is because they do not yet have any prices for a camera which is not yet available. I understand your urge and need to buy urgently and in this situation you certainly made the best choice by purchasing what was available then.
All I wish is that one does not put blame on people who do their work in a professional way or that one misleads by "accusing" a camera which has not even been launched officially to be a "disaster": that's simply not fair and not true. Let the camera being launched and marketed as we planed and informed, with all information available for all, including prices, then I could understand and take any critic about it, negative as well as positive.
I hope you understand my point.
Thanks and best regards,
Thierry
I don't get you clearly and there seems to be a confusion:
- The Rollei 6008 will remain the 6008 and not be split in 3 cameras or brands! And the 6008 is as open a system for digital backs as is Hasselblad with its 503 or Contax or any other brand.
- The Hy6 is a new camera system: it is a new platform "open" for 2 MFDB's, while the H3D is not open. And last but not at all least, it can accept almost ALL accessories and lenses (AF or not) from the 6008: so far I could understand, the H3D has not at all this possbility.
- Sinar distributor in Sweden: Molander in Stokholm are a serious company. If they did not contact you (which I shall check directly with them), it is because they do not yet have any prices for a camera which is not yet available. I understand your urge and need to buy urgently and in this situation you certainly made the best choice by purchasing what was available then.
All I wish is that one does not put blame on people who do their work in a professional way or that one misleads by "accusing" a camera which has not even been launched officially to be a "disaster": that's simply not fair and not true. Let the camera being launched and marketed as we planed and informed, with all information available for all, including prices, then I could understand and take any critic about it, negative as well as positive.
I hope you understand my point.
Thanks and best regards,
Thierry
QUOTE (samuel_js @ Mar 26 2007, 02:48 AM)
Well, I said very clear to Sinar that my intentions were to go Hy6. I wanted to know prices and digital/film options. They said they would call me. Never heard from them... I choose to go Hasselblad instead. Everything they do is clear and transparent and they're here in Sweden.
I think it's very sad that the beautifull 6008 will be difussed into three different cameras now.
I wish it was a Rollei Hy6 with open optinos for the digital back. It was a short beautiful dream and now I woke up and feel very dissapointed... That's all.
Best Regards
Samuel
I think it's very sad that the beautifull 6008 will be difussed into three different cameras now.
I wish it was a Rollei Hy6 with open optinos for the digital back. It was a short beautiful dream and now I woke up and feel very dissapointed... That's all.
Best Regards
Samuel
QUOTE (Mort54 @ Mar 24 2007, 11:18 AM)
Sinar should be applauded for providing their Hy6 faq (despite my earlier comments), since there is a huge amount of interest in the product. However, I still feel the implementation of this faq, and the general roll-out of information, leaves a lot to be desired.
Hi, Mort,
I can understand your frustration with the Early Bird program, getting ping-ponged back and forth from Sinar HQ and SinarBronUSA. I think your above comment is completely fair--sorry if I contributed to any of those feelings of guilt!
QUOTE (thsinar @ Mar 24 2007, 06:49 PM)
Thank you on behalf of those all making a lot of efforts at Sinar!
We truely and honestly do our best, trying as a first aim not to mislead.
We truely and honestly do our best, trying as a first aim not to mislead.
Hi, Thierry,
You're welcome. I think you have a very exciting product on your hands, and everyone would love to know more. Let's hope it is every bit as good as the promises suggest, but we'll have to be patient to know for sure.
Thanks as well for the notification that the Sinar FAQ will only be open through March 31. I've posted a few more questions there, just before the deadline.
Best regards to you both,
Brad
Hi,
The Hy6 is a 6x6 camera right? Why a 6x4,5 magazine before a 6x6? The 6x6 magazine will be launched later they say... For me, the 6x6 magazine is very important. This is one thing I don't understand. Why should I buy a 6x6 camera without 6x6 mag? A waist level finder doesn't have the same effect on 645, well that's my opinion...
Hasselblad is not a closed system. The H3D is. (You still have H2 and V system wide open). My digital choice is Phase One because the quality is fantastic an of course Capture One. The Hy6 will be more closed for sure. And we are talking about the same price range than Hasselblad? As I said before, I think the battle is already lost and there's no camera yet... And then we have Mamiya. No comment...
What I ment about the 6008 is the Hy6 being the evolution of the 6008. And I, as many, wanted this evolution to become a Rollei Hy6 "Open system".
Thierry, I think you do a fantastic job in this forum, far better than the dealers do (no comments about Molanders). And I will be looking at the Hy6 whe it comes out, but for now I'm done, really.
Best Regards
Samuel
The Hy6 is a 6x6 camera right? Why a 6x4,5 magazine before a 6x6? The 6x6 magazine will be launched later they say... For me, the 6x6 magazine is very important. This is one thing I don't understand. Why should I buy a 6x6 camera without 6x6 mag? A waist level finder doesn't have the same effect on 645, well that's my opinion...
Hasselblad is not a closed system. The H3D is. (You still have H2 and V system wide open). My digital choice is Phase One because the quality is fantastic an of course Capture One. The Hy6 will be more closed for sure. And we are talking about the same price range than Hasselblad? As I said before, I think the battle is already lost and there's no camera yet... And then we have Mamiya. No comment...
What I ment about the 6008 is the Hy6 being the evolution of the 6008. And I, as many, wanted this evolution to become a Rollei Hy6 "Open system".
Thierry, I think you do a fantastic job in this forum, far better than the dealers do (no comments about Molanders). And I will be looking at the Hy6 whe it comes out, but for now I'm done, really.
Best Regards
Samuel
QUOTE (thsinar @ Mar 26 2007, 06:46 AM)
Dear Samuel,
I don't get you clearly and there seems to be a confusion:
- The Rollei 6008 will remain the 6008 and not be split in 3 cameras or brands! And the 6008 is as open a system for digital backs as is Hasselblad with its 503 or Contax or any other brand.
- The Hy6 is a new camera system: it is a new platform "open" for 2 MFDB's, while the H3D is not open. And last but not at all least, it can accept almost ALL accessories and lenses (AF or not) from the 6008: so far I could understand, the H3D has not at all this possbility.
- Sinar distributor in Sweden: Molander in Stokholm are a serious company. If they did not contact you (which I shall check directly with them), it is because they do not yet have any prices for a camera which is not yet available. I understand your urge and need to buy urgently and in this situation you certainly made the best choice by purchasing what was available then.
All I wish is that one does not put blame on people who do their work in a professional way or that one misleads by "accusing" a camera which has not even been launched officially to be a "disaster": that's simply not fair and not true. Let the camera being launched and marketed as we planed and informed, with all information available for all, including prices, then I could understand and take any critic about it, negative as well as positive.
I hope you understand my point.
Thanks and best regards,
Thierry
I don't get you clearly and there seems to be a confusion:
- The Rollei 6008 will remain the 6008 and not be split in 3 cameras or brands! And the 6008 is as open a system for digital backs as is Hasselblad with its 503 or Contax or any other brand.
- The Hy6 is a new camera system: it is a new platform "open" for 2 MFDB's, while the H3D is not open. And last but not at all least, it can accept almost ALL accessories and lenses (AF or not) from the 6008: so far I could understand, the H3D has not at all this possbility.
- Sinar distributor in Sweden: Molander in Stokholm are a serious company. If they did not contact you (which I shall check directly with them), it is because they do not yet have any prices for a camera which is not yet available. I understand your urge and need to buy urgently and in this situation you certainly made the best choice by purchasing what was available then.
All I wish is that one does not put blame on people who do their work in a professional way or that one misleads by "accusing" a camera which has not even been launched officially to be a "disaster": that's simply not fair and not true. Let the camera being launched and marketed as we planed and informed, with all information available for all, including prices, then I could understand and take any critic about it, negative as well as positive.
I hope you understand my point.
Thanks and best regards,
Thierry
samuel, if you want a film camera in 6x6 I think you should have gone with the 6008, but remember this is a medium format DIGITAL back forum here, and I could care less if the hy6
ever came with a film back, I bought a 6008 a few years back and it has never seen film in it.
You think the sinar distributor in sweden is lame.. well check out the uk one if you want a laugh,
I was spoiled by sinarbron in the states, bill andrews, while vp of sales, ran a professional ship and knew the professional market, but here,.. ..I would be very surprised if anyone buys sinar in the uk.
I commend sinar for their vision and execution, but like me, find it difficult in the marketplace. I wish I had thierry as a sales rep.,I bet sinar wishes they could clone him. Regardless of the release date on the hy6, if it has the sinar badge on it when it is delivered you know you will be
able to depend on it. I am conifident that sinar will be part of my future as it has been in the past.
paul moore
ever came with a film back, I bought a 6008 a few years back and it has never seen film in it.
You think the sinar distributor in sweden is lame.. well check out the uk one if you want a laugh,
I was spoiled by sinarbron in the states, bill andrews, while vp of sales, ran a professional ship and knew the professional market, but here,.. ..I would be very surprised if anyone buys sinar in the uk.
I commend sinar for their vision and execution, but like me, find it difficult in the marketplace. I wish I had thierry as a sales rep.,I bet sinar wishes they could clone him. Regardless of the release date on the hy6, if it has the sinar badge on it when it is delivered you know you will be
able to depend on it. I am conifident that sinar will be part of my future as it has been in the past.
paul moore
QUOTE (thsinar @ Mar, 09:46 PM)
Dear Samuel,
I don't get you clearly and there seems to be a confusion:
- The Rollei 6008 will remain the 6008 and not be split in 3 cameras or brands! And the 6008 is as open a system for digital backs as is Hasselblad with its 503 or Contax or any other brand.
- The Hy6 is a new camera system: it is a new platform "open" for 2 MFDB's, while the H3D is not open. And last but not at all least, it can accept almost ALL accessories and lenses (AF or not) from the 6008: so far I could understand, the H3D has not at all this possbility.
- Sinar distributor in Sweden: Molander in Stokholm are a serious company. If they did not contact you (which I shall check directly with them), it is because they do not yet have any prices for a camera which is not yet available. I understand your urge and need to buy urgently and in this situation you certainly made the best choice by purchasing what was available then.
All I wish is that one does not put blame on people who do their work in a professional way or that one misleads by "accusing" a camera which has not even been launched officially to be a "disaster": that's simply not fair and not true. Let the camera being launched and marketed as we planed and informed, with all information available for all, including prices, then I could understand and take any critic about it, negative as well as positive.
I hope you understand my point.
Thanks and best regards,
Thierry
I don't get you clearly and there seems to be a confusion:
- The Rollei 6008 will remain the 6008 and not be split in 3 cameras or brands! And the 6008 is as open a system for digital backs as is Hasselblad with its 503 or Contax or any other brand.
- The Hy6 is a new camera system: it is a new platform "open" for 2 MFDB's, while the H3D is not open. And last but not at all least, it can accept almost ALL accessories and lenses (AF or not) from the 6008: so far I could understand, the H3D has not at all this possbility.
- Sinar distributor in Sweden: Molander in Stokholm are a serious company. If they did not contact you (which I shall check directly with them), it is because they do not yet have any prices for a camera which is not yet available. I understand your urge and need to buy urgently and in this situation you certainly made the best choice by purchasing what was available then.
All I wish is that one does not put blame on people who do their work in a professional way or that one misleads by "accusing" a camera which has not even been launched officially to be a "disaster": that's simply not fair and not true. Let the camera being launched and marketed as we planed and informed, with all information available for all, including prices, then I could understand and take any critic about it, negative as well as positive.
I hope you understand my point.
Thanks and best regards,
Thierry
hasselblad might still have an open system with the H1/2 but right after the H3D announcement came the (now taken back?) announcement that they would stop building H1/2s and of course no new lenses for H1/2.....and there aren't too many to begin with for that system....
that is besides the point that the battery problems of the H1/2 haven't even been fixed yet, but the camera is already being discontinued?
if you want the phase back (which i understand completely) i would consider the H system an uncertain choice.....especially since the manufacturer forces people to either go hasselblad or ....
if you have to have hasselblad, why not go with the HD31? all the advantages (on paper) and at least some certainty....
QUOTE (pss @ Mar 27 2007, 04:35 PM)
hasselblad might still have an open system with the H1/2 but right after the H3D announcement came the (now taken back?) announcement that they would stop building H1/2s and of course no new lenses for H1/2.....and there aren't too many to begin with for that system....
that is besides the point that the battery problems of the H1/2 haven't even been fixed yet, but the camera is already being discontinued?
if you want the phase back (which i understand completely) i would consider the H system an uncertain choice.....especially since the manufacturer forces people to either go hasselblad or ....
if you have to have hasselblad, why not go with the HD31? all the advantages (on paper) and at least some certainty....
that is besides the point that the battery problems of the H1/2 haven't even been fixed yet, but the camera is already being discontinued?
if you want the phase back (which i understand completely) i would consider the H system an uncertain choice.....especially since the manufacturer forces people to either go hasselblad or ....
if you have to have hasselblad, why not go with the HD31? all the advantages (on paper) and at least some certainty....
Yes, the H3D is a choice. I sold my H1 as well. Right now I do everything with a 503CW and a Contax 645. But still on film. I think maybe the best choice is to wait and see. How will PhaseOne respond to the Hy6?
/Samuel
FWIW, .02 from another perspective. Its been interesting watching Leica deal with some of these issues of marketing. communication and open development with the DMR and the M8.Watching them change from a discrete and proud small quality manufacturer of lenses and cameras into a new type of company, with a nimble open organization dealing with a lot of electronic issues has been just fascinating. Along the way there are:
- the consumer expectations that they ought to be just as good as Canon and Nikon in their delivery of prduct, pricing, information, etc. That's a bit tough for a small company.
- also expectations that the product should be flawless - a reasonable one, but one which truthfully should be noted doesn't happen too often these days, and even less with smaller production companies making sophisticated product. We tend to forget soem of the Canon/Nikon mistakes of the past.
Finally, there is the joy of their consumer base, with very little tolerance for mistakes, and (in part, due to the 'net) is pretty hard edged about any mistakes. There something about email... that just can slide to the negative pretty quickly.
One example - Leica relaeased by mistake a firmware upgrade for the M8 for about 10 minutes on their site, and quickly withdrew it. Within 24 hours, it was widely distributed, compared, critiqued and discussed broadly. They were of course shocked at the speed with which this happened.
The long andshort of it is that almost anything Leica (read Rolle here too...) does as they adjust to this new world can get them a lot of grief if they make the slightest hickup.
So imagine - a world with fast communication, high expectations, low tolerance for mistakes, and complex product. Its no surprise then that Sinar decides to communicate with a very measured tone in their message. If I were they, and watching what happens out here in the consumer frontier, I'd tread very cautiously as well.
Sure, we'd like more information - but lets remember - this is a camera body, and a revamping of an existing product line. This isn't a totally new system from scratch. The lenses exist, new ones are probably a pretty sure bet (same manuf, same quality levels). The backs exist.
So from this point of view, I'm willing to cut them some slack and be a bit patient. I have every expectation they will deliver. I only hope they can do well enough within the US to get some real distribution and street presence.
Geoff
- the consumer expectations that they ought to be just as good as Canon and Nikon in their delivery of prduct, pricing, information, etc. That's a bit tough for a small company.
- also expectations that the product should be flawless - a reasonable one, but one which truthfully should be noted doesn't happen too often these days, and even less with smaller production companies making sophisticated product. We tend to forget soem of the Canon/Nikon mistakes of the past.
Finally, there is the joy of their consumer base, with very little tolerance for mistakes, and (in part, due to the 'net) is pretty hard edged about any mistakes. There something about email... that just can slide to the negative pretty quickly.
One example - Leica relaeased by mistake a firmware upgrade for the M8 for about 10 minutes on their site, and quickly withdrew it. Within 24 hours, it was widely distributed, compared, critiqued and discussed broadly. They were of course shocked at the speed with which this happened.
The long andshort of it is that almost anything Leica (read Rolle here too...) does as they adjust to this new world can get them a lot of grief if they make the slightest hickup.
So imagine - a world with fast communication, high expectations, low tolerance for mistakes, and complex product. Its no surprise then that Sinar decides to communicate with a very measured tone in their message. If I were they, and watching what happens out here in the consumer frontier, I'd tread very cautiously as well.
Sure, we'd like more information - but lets remember - this is a camera body, and a revamping of an existing product line. This isn't a totally new system from scratch. The lenses exist, new ones are probably a pretty sure bet (same manuf, same quality levels). The backs exist.
So from this point of view, I'm willing to cut them some slack and be a bit patient. I have every expectation they will deliver. I only hope they can do well enough within the US to get some real distribution and street presence.
Geoff
Geoffrey,
thank you for your understanding of a situation which is pretty much like you describe it: giving information out to an eager market, this information then spreading at light speed (literally, when speaking about internet), one has to be very cautious about the veracity of this information.
Therefore ONLY facts can be given, and that only after verifications with different sources. Even then, with all these checks, it still can happen that one or the other thing look a bit different in the real world.
Be however sure that Sinar is willing to inform fully about this new product in a short while, beside all the information already given here on LLF and in different treads.
Thanks and best regards,
Thierry
thank you for your understanding of a situation which is pretty much like you describe it: giving information out to an eager market, this information then spreading at light speed (literally, when speaking about internet), one has to be very cautious about the veracity of this information.
Therefore ONLY facts can be given, and that only after verifications with different sources. Even then, with all these checks, it still can happen that one or the other thing look a bit different in the real world.
Be however sure that Sinar is willing to inform fully about this new product in a short while, beside all the information already given here on LLF and in different treads.
Thanks and best regards,
Thierry
QUOTE (Geoffrey @ Apr 4 2007, 05:24 PM)
FWIW, .02 from another perspective. Its been interesting watching Leica deal with some of these issues of marketing. communication and open development with the DMR and the M8.Watching them change from a discrete and proud small quality manufacturer of lenses and cameras into a new type of company, with a nimble open organization dealing with a lot of electronic issues has been just fascinating. Along the way there are:
- the consumer expectations that they ought to be just as good as Canon and Nikon in their delivery of prduct, pricing, information, etc. That's a bit tough for a small company.
- also expectations that the product should be flawless - a reasonable one, but one which truthfully should be noted doesn't happen too often these days, and even less with smaller production companies making sophisticated product. We tend to forget soem of the Canon/Nikon mistakes of the past.
Finally, there is the joy of their consumer base, with very little tolerance for mistakes, and (in part, due to the 'net) is pretty hard edged about any mistakes. There something about email... that just can slide to the negative pretty quickly.
One example - Leica relaeased by mistake a firmware upgrade for the M8 for about 10 minutes on their site, and quickly withdrew it. Within 24 hours, it was widely distributed, compared, critiqued and discussed broadly. They were of course shocked at the speed with which this happened.
The long andshort of it is that almost anything Leica (read Rolle here too...) does as they adjust to this new world can get them a lot of grief if they make the slightest hickup.
So imagine - a world with fast communication, high expectations, low tolerance for mistakes, and complex product. Its no surprise then that Sinar decides to communicate with a very measured tone in their message. If I were they, and watching what happens out here in the consumer frontier, I'd tread very cautiously as well.
Sure, we'd like more information - but lets remember - this is a camera body, and a revamping of an existing product line. This isn't a totally new system from scratch. The lenses exist, new ones are probably a pretty sure bet (same manuf, same quality levels). The backs exist.
So from this point of view, I'm willing to cut them some slack and be a bit patient. I have every expectation they will deliver. I only hope they can do well enough within the US to get some real distribution and street presence.
Geoff
- the consumer expectations that they ought to be just as good as Canon and Nikon in their delivery of prduct, pricing, information, etc. That's a bit tough for a small company.
- also expectations that the product should be flawless - a reasonable one, but one which truthfully should be noted doesn't happen too often these days, and even less with smaller production companies making sophisticated product. We tend to forget soem of the Canon/Nikon mistakes of the past.
Finally, there is the joy of their consumer base, with very little tolerance for mistakes, and (in part, due to the 'net) is pretty hard edged about any mistakes. There something about email... that just can slide to the negative pretty quickly.
One example - Leica relaeased by mistake a firmware upgrade for the M8 for about 10 minutes on their site, and quickly withdrew it. Within 24 hours, it was widely distributed, compared, critiqued and discussed broadly. They were of course shocked at the speed with which this happened.
The long andshort of it is that almost anything Leica (read Rolle here too...) does as they adjust to this new world can get them a lot of grief if they make the slightest hickup.
So imagine - a world with fast communication, high expectations, low tolerance for mistakes, and complex product. Its no surprise then that Sinar decides to communicate with a very measured tone in their message. If I were they, and watching what happens out here in the consumer frontier, I'd tread very cautiously as well.
Sure, we'd like more information - but lets remember - this is a camera body, and a revamping of an existing product line. This isn't a totally new system from scratch. The lenses exist, new ones are probably a pretty sure bet (same manuf, same quality levels). The backs exist.
So from this point of view, I'm willing to cut them some slack and be a bit patient. I have every expectation they will deliver. I only hope they can do well enough within the US to get some real distribution and street presence.
Geoff
Well said, Geoffrey.
QUOTE (Mort54 @ Mar 23 2007, 05:08 AM)
There is a lot to like about the new Hy6. But the way Sinar is handling the rollout leaves me feeling very unsure about whether this is the kind of company I want to do business with.
Tiny, engineering-oriented company. No marketing skills, solid engineering ability. May or may not be able to deliver the tech stuff, but are certainly not capable of grinding out endless useless marketing pulp.
Let's watch what happens when the camera comes out, and see whether it meets expectations.
Edmund
QUOTE (eronald @ Apr 4 2007, 12:15 PM)
.....certainly not capable of grinding out endless useless marketing pulp.
Let's watch what happens when the camera comes out, and see whether it meets expectations.
Let's watch what happens when the camera comes out, and see whether it meets expectations.
Hi Edmund. This thread is of course old news by now. I raised what I considered valid concerns, and Thierry addressed them to my satisfaction. It's all contained in the various posts to this thread.
I certainly don't want anyone to grind out "endless useless marketing pulp", and that's not what I criticized Sinar for. What I did was express dismay that at this late stage (only a couple of months from shipping), potential buyers (myself included) were still having to ferret out information by playing "20 questions" on the internet. That just seems wrong.
But as I said elsewhere in this thread, that's all water under the bridge as far as I'm concerned. I have my request for quote in, along with a list of questions specific to the US market. And Thierry says more comprehensive information on the product is coming soon. All is good
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