COPIED OVER FROM THE LEAF FORUM. THIS IS SCARY!

A friend of mine sent me this last night(reprinted with permission)

"There were 10 of my clients there from the ad agency and 3 of their clients.

Four assistants, two producers, four traffic cops, hair and makeup and stylists and their assistants. A driver, a rep for the car, and I´m sure more people who I´ve forgotten Oscars style.

An iMac 24 and laptop in a blackout tent. Four large generators, a dozen or more lights. A RV. A grip truck. Catering.

Oh, and one Aptus 22 on an H2.

I´ve been getting these can´t connect messages with LC10 lately. Sometimes it takes me a few tries to connect, sometimes a good 20 minutes, but when it´s connected it´s bulletproof.

Today, on exactly the third frame with light falling in the backgroud, LC10 craps out. We try to connect several times with a couple restarts with no luck. We move to LC8 on the iMac. No. We move to LC10 on the laptop. No. We move to LC8 on the laptop. No. We had made it through 50 test shots, but now things are screwed. I let the client know. Hey, it happens. I said that´s the price of these excellent files. I think they were buying it.

Finally, I move to cards and the shows back on the road. So this story has an optomistic ending, right?

Let it be said, I have absolutely no faith in my camera, and that´s not a good feeling. "

Hope you are listening Leaf. 6 of my acquantinces have turned there Leaf backs in or sold them. People are leaving in droves. Please print out the last sentence and place it over ever Leaf employees desk. What you don´t get here is that our careers are at stake every time we shoot. The shoot is hard enough, but every day I show up saying under my breath, "I hope it works, I hope it works"

JT, (I assume this would be your nickname as you are not disclosing your real name)...

No offence, but is there a point in posting this other than bad mouthing a product on a public forum?

I have been personally involved with the quoted customer since he has reported this “incident” and we are making sure that the case is analyzed (computers/ software/ cables/ back/ camera) so the customer, his dealer and Leaf are all aware of the situation and doing the necessary to find a remedy. I am currently waiting for his feedback on a specific test that I've asked him to run.

We all have “scary” stories as much we also all have success stories. On a big, stressful production set many things can go wrong and of course nobody wishes for the camera to go down.

The nature of public forums is that you will rarely hear about these successful shoots...if nothing goes wrong then there's normally nothing to "write home about":-)

So unless your motivation and opinion are clear and backed up by the complete set of facts, I would advise you to avoid posting such quotes in the future.

Best regards,

Yair

Yes... there's an old saying, 'When I do something right, nobody notices. When I do something wrong, everybody notices.' Off topic, but my mother once called the head office of an appliance company because the person who had come to fix her stove was on time, polite, courteous, helpful, knowledgeable; in short, everything one could wish for. So my mom called to say, 'Thanks'. There was dead silence on the other end of the phone for about ten seconds. The woman had NEVER received a call like that before.

Mike.

I've had cameras fail due to pretty much every reason known to man, I've witnessed shoots go south cause noone thought of bringing a spare sync cable; I've seen 3 of my assistants scratching their heads when a slave cell didn't work in bright sunlight ( ... ).

I don't mean to brag, but in all these cases, I never failed to come up with a solution in a matter of minutes, or just used a back-up.
Sounds like the photographer in that story should not have been assigned in the first place, or have chosen his team more carefully.
As there is no detailed information, it is impossible to tell what caused the problem, or prevented a solution.

Public interest and sharing of information is a valid argument, but then I would expect posters with problems who experience good customer care and reparations/replacements to post that "all is well" in the end of the day (this is not always the case, but thats another story.)


I agree to some extent. You will find a lot of posts giving praise to products, customer service, company goodwill towards customers, etc. But IMO it seems the balance is towards criticism in many cases. This however does not mean one should not post facts about incidents with products (or customer care/warranty issues) to enlighten interested parties (forum members.) The number of incidents gives the other forum members an indication of product quality. I don't know about Leaf product quality, and this is not a remark on Leaf products.


A complete set of facts/opinions/statements would be provided if the company or dealer joined in on the forum (like you do) and gave the other side of the story. It is however IMO the right of anyone experiencing something, to share this information as they felt the experience, as long as it is truthful. Dealers and companies can never follow up on all information shared in any community (either real or on the web) and its a difficult task to search such information out. Dealers and companies can however avoid as much of this as they can by improving their product, customer relations, warranties, and other actions. This is as it has always been, and the way I think its going to be in the forseeable future.

To write on a forum that someone should not quote an experience, or refer an experience they have been told about (as long as they dont make the egg into a hen... and preferrably directly from a first hand source) is IMO perfectly ok.

-axel

Your "friend" is either a risk-taker or inexperienced. There is no replacement for redundancy! I assume with a production that large he had a duplicate backup standing by of his primary equipment. I use an Aptus 22. It has been all over the world and used in all situations. It has never failed me once. Are there occasional hardware, software, cable, voltage, humidity,or any other misc. gremlins that plague us? Sure! That is the nature of mechanical/electronic gear. Expect it to break! I am quite sure that someday all of my gear will fail. Will it stop me from getting the shot? No way! Running Imac's on generators is risky. Photo and computer gear don't mix well with small genrator power. I've seen plenty of gear fried by bad power. I would never shoot teatherd in that situation anyway. Firewire is too quirky. It could be a bad cable or bad connectors that shut you down. I have been working over 20 years in the industry as both an assistant and a photographer. The only thing I know for sure is that your flight will be cancelled, the Towncar will not show up in time, the rental house will short you on some of your gear, the Celeb will only give you 30 minutes instead of 2 hours, the maid will steal your credit cards,the location doesn't look anything like the pictures you were shown, the model will have a fight with her boyfriend just before she arrives on your set, and it's now raining. Your job is to get the shot. Period! Don't blame your gear. Expect it to break becase it will. The Leaf aptus is a great dependable back. Anybody wanting to offload an Aptus cheap should send me an email. I love bargains. troy@troyword.com

Does that mean the photographer went on this big shoot with equipment that he knew to be playing up?

I may be wrong but in that case you're always asking for trouble..wether its a top mfdb or a holga you're using.

YAYA!

First off it is a free country to post what I WANT TO POST! If your company wasn't screwing up so badly, there would be no need to post this stuff. You have TW here who like his Aptus. One out of who know how many

I am a Valeo 17 shooter, had an Aptus 75 which I returned on three occasions! I have rented P25, P30 and P45 backs and have not had one problem. From England, France, South America, All over America, Canada, Tokyo and Hong Kong. NEVER HAD ONE ISSUE with a PhaseOne back or C1Pro EVER in the two and half years I have been digital. No tethering issues, no glitches, zilch, zero, nothing, nada.

LEAF on the other hand, has been nothing but a pain.

I may want to go Hasselblad as I have rented it twice now and have had no problems and quite like the software. My other concern is that I am a Contax, Blad V and RZ shooter and want something I can use between them all.

Are you slagging the guy who pasted this story the Venerable Troy House on the Leaf Forum! Ia mposting this here because Leaf will not make an Open Forum.

Are you going to delete my user profile at the Leaf forum now?

Leaf has done nothing but fail at everything it has promised.

You have had four prominent shooters on this forum dump their Leaf gear and openly switch to Phase and Hasselblad. Three to Phase and one to Blad. You can now count on a fifth openly leave LEAF for most likely Hasselblad. iw ill most likely also dump my Valeo as a back up and go PhaseOne.

Don't be such a ninny and say

"No offence, but is there a point in posting this other than bad mouthing a product on a public forum?"

"So unless your motivation and opinion are clear and backed up by the complete set of facts, I would advise you to avoid posting such quotes in the future."

If you prodcut worked you would not hear so many negative issues.

Best of luck with your product! I was a loyal Leaf customer and left well over a year ago and have been renting. You know what every rental house in the world has? PHASEONE!

JTFoto, I don't know you. Now you've vented, at least a little bit, cool down a little.

There are certain points to your post:

1. Maybe Leaf backs are faulty as hell, but the story you tell, tells just one thing, 5 people, who should solve the problem somehow, didn't do their job well and I don#t blame the photographer.

2. You didn't post the whole thing was under investigation by Leaf, where is the follow up...what happened?

3. You're right, this is internet. You can say and post whatever you want. Yaya might be wrong.

4. Your friend went without back up. I understand digital backs are expensive, even to rent... but

5. Whatever, you are free to choose the product you like best, gives you the best file, is stable as hell,... If you believe what companies tell you, you will get the more expensive Shell super duper 98 high voltage gasoline at the gas station, just because they tell you Michael Schumacher drove to immortality on Formula 1 with them as sponsor. So what.

I honor you wish to inform, but in the end your post only confirms one thing: pe prepared.


To your info: I don't own a MDFB, I'm just renting. Anything available that will do the job. From any company. But I'm in the marked to buy a used back. So, how much is your Aptus going for...?

If you are not a Leaf customer anymore, why even bother bashing them?

I'd agree that taking up such a huge assignment without a back up is very un-professional. That guy should blame it on his poor logistics.

Now, there may be problems with Leaf backs in some occasions, but the whole speech you put up focusses on the impact of that on a photographer's carreer and reputation, right? The only thing there is to that is the photographer's inability to plan well. Period.

Cheers,
Bernard

An people ask me why I only shoot landscape and nature

Of course it is one's right to post anything in public and I respect Troy House's choice to quote his friend on our forum. Troy is well aware of my opinion FYI.

You are saying that 4 people have switched over and this may well be the case. I can say that I have a few more than 4 people switching over to Leaf from other brands, 2 off which from a nearly new shiny 31MP back, but that's not the point!

If you're telling your story and share it with people, then you'll be taken seriously but if you are quoting a quote from a closed forum, not knowing whehter the actual photographer was looking for that kind of "publicity" or not, then I would say this is a bit irresponsible.

No one is going to touch your account as long as you use the product and you contribute to the discussions (complaining or not).

Leaf currently is selling more backs than ever with a wide range of products and a growing customer base, showing growth and profitability that other brands may or may not show.

We're investing in new sensor, software and camera technologies, constantly improving the reliability of our products and the level of our service and support. We have just recently moved to a brand new building with improved facilities for design & manufacturing.

For a company of 50 people we have a lot to be proud of, of course there is always room for improvement. I believe this is similiar in other companies.

Your choice of back is yours and is well respected...this however doesn't mean that other brands are inferior and that they should be regarded as such.

respectfuly

Yair (real name)

For the record, I asked permission from the photographer in using his quote. JTPhoto(whoever that is) did not ask for my permission. I agree that this was posted in a private forum and it should not have been posted here without asking.


later....
Oh, just realized, you're the person in January who refuses to state who they really are and threw in the "I assisted Annie" and the Canon mkIII bomb who was selling his p25(now you are a valeo 17 owner, so you traded your p25 for a valeo 17?, curious as to why?) and was totally getting out of mf to only shoot Canon. This suddenly all makes sense.
Canon Bomb

Just thought I'd chime in on the matter of Leaf reliability. I think the first Leaf I had a chance to use was the 6mpx C-most, so you could say I've had a fair amount experience with the stuff. I would say from my experience over several years that Leaf by far is the least reliable of the 3 majors. I know one photographer that went through 5 valeos and aptus backs over 2 years before he finally gave up on Leaf. One of the bigger dealers in town said he had seen 3 DOA backs from leaf with his own eyes. Not a very good track record. I've seen two Aptus backs refuse to work with G5 quads (phase worked fine). I actually bought two extra Quads from the Apple store to make sure it wasn't my machines setup (it wasn't) No matter how many boosters or reapters or cables I tried neither back worked on any of the three machines. The response I got from leaf about this matter was tepid, but they did tell me that the Quad would process files much slower (great a fast computer processes files slower!). I admit Phase isn't perfect, but most issues are minor (restart software or such). I have seen many many many shoots with the phase with nary a hiccup. I will say the people at Leaf America are really great people and as helpful as they can be, but unfortunately they are left to deal with problems of a poorly designed back. I find it disheartening that a leaf rep would try to quite such talk, and that is why I felt compelled to chime in at all. It is a better place for all photographs when our experiences are shared. -Jeff

My own opinion on this topic:

it is obviously the right of each and anybody to post and inform about any subject/product, PROVIDED that it is done in a fair and open way, and with NO other intention or agenda but to inform honestly AND fully.

By this I mean that the concerned manufacturer should be given the chance to have ALL facts laid down.

And one of the first condition (for me) to be taken seriously and to give the manufacturer a fair chance, is to post under ones own name. If this is not the case, it is too easy to post all and anything with the only intention to harm (a brand or a person) like it happened on other occasions here in this forum.

And of course, quotes should be posted WITH the permission of the concerned author.

We all know that all digital backs of any brand, included Sinarbacks AS WELL AS the one mentioned as being bullet-proof can have in some situations a problem (being it the back itself or the environment/configuration this back is used in/with). Pretending or claiming the contrary is not to be honest. The question and the point is then to be prepared for this and to have the necessary support to deal with it efficiently.

Thierry

Jeffvo,
Congrats on just joining tonight and posting right away. Sure you've heard this before but from a distance you look remarkable similar to JTFOTO. Coincidence I'm sure....

Great entertainment JT!

Of course, in the end of the original story the problems were solved by shooting untethered with CF cards. Nice you choose to exclude this part of the story.

How is your Canon system working out? Shooting tethered with it is such a vast improvement over tethering with MFDB's from what I hear

Maybe it' time to go back under the bridge

http://tinyurl.com/28o42

I have seen the opening post on the Leaf forum as well. As much as it is a horror story I would put the majority of the fault with the photographer in question. Who in his right mind would setup such a major shoot without a backup?

In the end they could shoot to CF. In my experience this indicates not a problem with the back but more likely with cables or computer.

I have worked with several Leaf backs starting with the C-Most. I have yet to encounter a real problem (knock on wood).

Sure, my Aptus is of to green but that is manageable. Sure it sometimes (rarely) freezes. Other than that I have not had any problem with any back (C-Most, Valeo and Aptus). The hardware I find remarkably stable.

Now, if we would have been talking software that is something totally different. If I would be complaining about something Leaf that would be it (and as many others I am and I have) maybe with the fact they lack an adapter system.

Oh I'm not some troll. I'm the real deal with plenty of experience. And, although the original post seems to be from a troll the story of his seems to be grounded in truth. First the Leaf Rep calls out the original poster ,and now you try to say I'm to be discredited knowing nothing of me because you think my post SEEMS similar to his? Thats pretty weak Troy. Do you know what a UPD file does? Have you spoken many times to Rick and Pat at leaf America? Do you know an Aptus back needs more Firewire Voltage than the Valeo? I speak the truth I have seen as to inform others as I have been informed by this forum.

For the adapter system.....go hasselblad.

... Or Sinar!

love my LEAF APTUS 65 and wouldn't want to change to Phase one...even if they paid me!! And I am not saying Phase one isn't good...the images quality is great!!...but the system isn't for me!

I don't like the leaf software...but didn't like the Nikon software or the Canon software....I only use Photoshop...and the new CS3 bridge is great!!!....and shooting tethered....who the hell want the client open his YAP and bitch about each images that shows on the monitor.....it is much better for them to see a couple of images so they can give me actual feedback by telling me that they like this from this image and that from that image....so I can work with it and get them what they want!
But that is just me.

Both systems suck!!! They are too expensive and the preview LCD is world war 1 quality!! The systems are slow and the output is okay....but just okay!

The only reason I went for Leaf is that I finally had my film look back in my images....and the sales rep. really helped me out saving me 6 weeks of rentals before my own back was available.

Hopefully the S is coming out soon.....so I can finally shoot at the same speed as with my beloved ds1mkII.

Stop hating.....

Do you know an Aptus back needs more Firewire Voltage than the Valeo? I speak the truth I have seen as to inform others as I have been informed by this forum.

[/quote]

This is interesting I just did a shoot using a repeater for the Aptus 22 on a Mamiya 645 AFDII & had no problems. I was also shooting as fast as I could. I was shooting tethered into a G5 Quad on 8.3.4. With the repeater it was the best experience I have ever had with the Aptus 22!
Last year I had a challenge with LC10 may 06. I was having too many crashes. We went to 8.3.4 and it would not work. What I found out is that you can't go backwards. I had my ZD as backup however the studio kindly let me use there Aptus 22 on a H2 which worked well. The shoot was a success & it gave me the opportunity to compare the Hasselblad & Mamiya 150 mm lens. Anyhow you have to have BACK UP.
Denis

[quote=mcfoto,Apr 18 2007, 09:23 AM]
Do you know an Aptus back needs more Firewire Voltage than the Valeo? I speak the truth I have seen as to inform others as I have been informed by this forum.

[/quote]


Last year I had a challenge with LC10 may 06. I was having too many crashes. We went to 8.3.4 and it would not work. What I found out is that you can't go backwards.
Denis

[/quote]

Hi Denis.
Can you please confirm something... are you saying that you can't alternate being tethered between LC10 and LC8?
I have done it a couple of times and had no problems, but I was wondering if this is considered a bad practise? Is this the official recommendation from Leaf.
Thanks for you input.
Andrew

Yaya

With all due respect, your responses skirt the issue:

Are Leaf backs generally reliable enough, so that a photographer who has access to only a single back can take it on an assignment without too much anxiety about the back failing catastrophically?

If the answer is yes, then you should explain why this user's experience is unique and should not generally reflect on Leaf products. Since the user has not publicly identified himself, that gives you the opportunity to rebut his statements on technical grounds without disclosing private information.

It may be the case that no manufacturer can make that claim about the reliability of their products. Then say so, or give us some statistics about failure rates that rebut this user's claims. But make your arguments on substantive grounds.

Instead, you responses appear defensive and try to discredit your customer on personal grounds. This is unnecessary, and makes Leaf appear to be grasping at straws.

Besides, beating up your customer in public is never a good idea from a marketing perpective.

[quote=AndrewDyer,Apr 18 2007, 03:40 AM]
Last year I had a challenge with LC10 may 06. I was having too many crashes. We went to 8.3.4 and it would not work. What I found out is that you can't go backwards.
Denis

[/quote]

Hi Denis.
Can you please confirm something... are you saying that you can't alternate being tethered between LC10 and LC8?
I have done it a couple of times and had no problems, but I was wondering if this is considered a bad practise? Is this the official recommendation from Leaf.
Thanks for you input.
Andrew

[/quote]

Hi
We went from LC10 to 8.3.4 & it would not boot up. Then we went back to LC10 & it would not boot up ( because we went backwards?). After that experience I stayed with 8.3.4 which is very stable tethered. The digtital operator liked LC10 so we gave it a go which was not a wise decision at the time. LC10 is now up to version 4. Iridient Raw Developer is currently working on a tethered program to support Leaf & maby Canon. Other systems could follow in the future. Maby Yair could help us out here with this technical question.
Denis

I've been finding the recent release of v10.0.4 update 3 to be stable, and have started integrating it into my smaller shoots. On big high profile jobs, I still go for v8.4.6 and find it very stable, aside from something retarded happening such as when an assistant puts a 20+lb. sandbag on the fw cable.

On any high profile shoot, testing the connection is one of my first and top priorities. If there is any issue, replacing the fw cable and/or trashing the prefs usually solves the problem. Rarely, do I have to reinstall the software. In any event this is done long before the client is on set.

Ideally, a capture station should be just that: capture only. I have had problems on systems where apps are crashing right and left (C1 Pro too...), and you discover that permissions haven't been repaired, or the hd is almost full etc. Blaming the software for poor system maintenance is a weak excuse, and on a big shoot this is simply unacceptable.

I have alternated between v8 and v10 with no problems more than a few times. I would be curious as to the official stance as well.

Best,

Eric Zepeda

Same here, I have switched between 8 and 10 numerously without any problems. Currently I only use 10. It has been a major improvement stability wise.

I know about the adapter systems

When I go for another system it will be the lack of an adapterplate system with Leaf and not so much any other issue. Maybe the software as well but sofar I can manage to workaround it if necessary. It would be nice when that is up to the standard you might expect.

I love my Leaf back but I think the Leaf software is a joke. I and others in the group have said as much in the past. I've switched over to Lightroom for post and have not looked back. I still don't have a solution for tethering which will force me to look in Phase's direction when I'm ready to upgrade unless Leaf get's their act together. I'm not holding my breath.

Congrats on being the "real deal", hard title to get these days, still waiting for my certificate.

Do you know what a UPD file does?
YES
Have you spoken many times to Rick and Pat at leaf America?
YES
Do you know an Aptus back needs more Firewire Voltage than the Valeo?
YES

And the reason the original poster was called out was he took something from a private forum and reposted it here without permission from the site or the author. To make matters worse, he edited the quote to make his point sound worse than it was. Pretty much as unethical as you can get.

Eric,

Before you start slagging, read the post properly, the part of the CF card is there! I copied the WHOLE STORY you schmuck!

I am a valeo user! So I have no reason to rag on LEAF, but I did have an Aptus and had to return THREE times! So now I rent and no longer need to assist. Believe what you want about Canon. I was there. What they release may be different.

I COPY AND POSTED THIS SIMPLY SO PEOPLE COULD KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON.

My initials are JT and anyone who know the NYC market knows who I am. It is quite simple actually.

I personally agree that somene should not have copied and pasted from a private to public forum without permission and it is logicial to asusme there are agendas at play which is all too familiar when it comes to digital capture.

Agenda or not, the sword cuts both ways. The dealer and manufacturer reps go on these forums to sell product so they also open themsevles and their product up to critique.

Still, this doesn't erase or change the fact that the person mentioned and others have these issues when working tethered with Leaf and attacking the messenger doesn't make the problem go away.

What I don't understand is why Leaf doesn't repsond quickly to the posts on their own forum and I won't give any information away, but as a Leaf and Phase customer, I know I would like a post of a problem attended to rather than passed over or ignored.

If a tech rep from Leaf had responded immediatley with the steps they are taking to research the problems and the fixes and give workarounds they suggest to not have these issues repeat again this type of post would have been diffused immediatly and it would have been a non story.

Maybe all of the issues posted on the Leaf Forum are attended to in a private rather than semi-public matter, but the casual observer will never know thisl

I think Dave Gallagher at Capture integration is onto something with his blogs.

IMO Leaf could/should have easily followed suit and made a blog showing how to connect an I-mac to an Aptus/ H-1, what if any powered firewire bus is needed and how to go from v10 to v8 in case of a software corruption or problem.

On Dave's blog's there is a section on how to upgrade Capture One from 3.6 to 3.7 to avoid issues with the plus backs.

This type of proactivity is a much more positive way to get ahead of the issues, rather than attacking the messenger.

It's no secret that for a lot of phtoographer's that shoot in volume Leaf Capture 10 has been problematic. It's also not a secret that many Leaf users have gone to third party software to work around some of these issues.

Rather than ignore, or worse just cut snippets out of posts to try to prove a point, a real informational blog or pdf explaining how to get in front of these issues and integrate Leaf Backs with third party solutions would be benificial.

It seems to me that in some parts of the mfdb world there is a your with us or against us attitude and that makes no sense at all to me.


IMO

JR

Bog,

Thasnk for stiking by what I was trying to do. Simply to inform!

Troy,

I copied to entire quote nothing was out of context or unethical! Do I need to do a Screen SHOT or did you already delete the post. That story was probably your problem and you masked it as another shooter to save face with LEAF.

Eric Z,

100% agree that your capture station should be just that. The machine should have only capture software and PS. A second internal disk as a scratch disk and you should perform a Disk Warrior weekly or monthly at the latest.

I have never had one problem with my valeo other than I have to shoot tethered with a bulky brick underneath my camera.

Troy,

If you are offended that i copied the story, well then I am sorry. But don't post anything to the internet you do not want made public. WWW does stand for the WORLD WIDE WEB.

I DID NOT EDIT THE POST ON THE LEAF FORUM.

IF LEAF OPENED IT UP THEN THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO SEE THAT.

ANOTHER WAY TO BASH THE MESSENGER. WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU ABOUT THE COMPANY!?

Seems to me that the photographer should have had a back up, thats fair to say, but it's also fair to say that they had big problems with a 30 grand piece of kit. I'm glad posts like this come up to keep us, the photographers informed about problems we may encounter with pieces of kit that cost us so much. Isn't that what this forumn is for? Who are we protecting by not posting about these issues? Leaf maybe a small company with only 50 people working for it but I can gaurantee that its a hell off a bigger company than any of us. I keep hearing about companys "looking into" issues and going to be updating software in the "near future" to eliminate problems but to me thats just not good enough. It's funny that they don't tell you about the known issues before you buy. I can't seem to find anywhere on the leaf website where they advertise green screens on the A65.

Sorry, I've been in NY 15 years and have yet to have the honor of finding out who the mysterious JT is. Seldom do photographer/assistants become so notorious.
In your first post you stated you have a p25, now its a valeo 17. Love to know why the switch aand are you happier with the valeo than the p25?

Love the Sarcasm!

My very first back was a Valeo 17 and still keep it s a back up. AS YOU or excuse me YOUR FRIEND should have done. I then bought a P25. I then sold it to get into the Aptus. BIG MISTAKE. During the three months of ownership and three backs. Got my money back and now reallly battling with what to get.

If you don't know JT don't worry. I am not offended, it's OK Troy.

Very nice work on the Plaza stuff by the way. Very nice gig. All shot with your trusty Aptus and H1 gear.

See compliments can go around as well.

It's really hard to compliment an anonymous photographer who refuses to share who he is.

Wow it is getting uppity in here.


I am happy people are letting us know what problems they are having. As someone said, isn't that part of what these forums are about.


He should have asked permission. But it is not like he leaked some new Canon secret


I am Happy PhaseOne owner on my H1. Although I would like to use my RZ. Oh well, for now. I did get the waist level finder for the H1 and it has helped on horizontal shots.


Can't we just all get along?

I think we need to keep the fault in perspective. The back did not fail, it did the job. There was a connection issue which could have been the fault of many links in the chain, the mac, the cable, the connector in the back ( maybe the connector is well used and has wear/abuse), or the software. If maintaining the view of the shoot for the crowd is so important then everything in that chain needs back up. An assistant (or client) could have tripped over the firewire cable and wrecked the fw connector in the back. This was a frustration which I am familiar with and I understand how annoying it is, although it has not happened to me in such scale. Nothing is going to be perfect all the time, but I do find that most problems happen if I stress and don't treat the gear with enough respect.
The main thing is getting the shoot done, and the gear on offer now has options. I like the fact that my eMotion 22 can shoot tethered, to internal storage or to CF.

David Morcombe

JT whoever you are, this is an open forum where people value other peoples opinions based on some kind of trust, which usually starts with a real name or website....

why are you quoting a story that hasn't happened to you? i get bashed for telling my personal hasselblad stories, you are just recounting someone else's experience and you won't even put your name under it? how do you expect to be taken seriously?

on the other hand the story sounds (as everybody who has ever owned a leaf back knows from thier own experience) sadly too true.....yes they should have had back-up, of course.....but it probably would not have helped them anyway if it was a software/connection issue.....you could have 10 leaf backs there, if the software won't connect oyu are out of luck.....

so besides the questionable quote and messenger, the core is still why can't leaf produce a really stable software solution for tethered shooting? or why is a 3?4?5? year old V8 still the only real option to shoot tethered? with camera raw, aperture, LR out there to deal with the files, it cannot be THAT hard to come up with a way to connect the f...ing back to the f....ng computer!!!! phase does it, canon does it, nikon does it, sigma does it, hasselblad, sinar...everybody can do it but leaf!

there is nothing wrong with the backs or the imagequality at all, but in a commercial work environment today, shooting tetherd is a must.....like it or not...that is what people expect....to see the files pop up....

i guess i just don't see the problem if phase can provide a solution which is truly plug and play....i don't even think twice about pulling the FW cable during a shoot if i want to get in closer/whatever....shoot to card, plug the FW back in, shot to HD..all without the slightest worry that a file might go missing or i get some connection error......it even works for me now that i really only shoot "through" C1 into LR...simply no problems....

no matter how good the next greatest leaf backs are....the damage the software problems are doing is starting to look bad.....a photographer friend of mine is starting to look into DMF backs and asked me....i told him to look at everything including the aptus...he said that he has heard too many stories in his agency with bad experiences...same situation...experienced shooters, rented backs, big productions, problems...there is enough that can and will go wrong...this really shouldn't be so frequent.....one of the photographers even said that an AD made sure that he would not rent a leaf back, because he had come from a shoot with problems.....maybe these guys don't know much about equipment, but they take notice of what makes problems on set......

i dont like anonymous posters usually, althoug i have met also some real "names" here which preferred not to use their name.... so no rule without exception.
but i really like to see with whom i chat or better, see some examples of his work.

sorry me to be a little of-topic, but the treat changed in several directions and responsability of the companies was one of these....

me, i am happy for the brumbaer tools, resulting from the (huge) amount of testing and developing we did in that last year ( around 40 ! version till the one which you can download now ).....
no crashes, fast, stable and hi quality. it catapulted my back in a workflow which is incomparable to the "standard".
how its possible that a product, developed by 1,5 persons, can deliver better results than this big companies are creating, and 20 - 50 people are many, compared to a little crew of one photographer and one programmer, isn't it? i dont understand this completely,-
but its at least very interesting to see.
maybe it has something to do that we have been in direct and daily contact, meanwhile i was shooting stephan was programming and resolving the mistakes we found.... and of-course he is a great programmer,- but professional work should be the fundament of us all, isn't it?

for me its hard to understand that all these companies are not able to create stable and fast softwares, further most of them have not been able to pull out what their own back can produce in the highlight areas. here are huge differences from sw to sw ( about 2 stops-!! ),- just a pity that you only realize that in direct comparision, but than it can be more than astonishing.

why ? maybe because the companies struggle to develop their next generation sensors and there is no manpower to resolve the products which are actually in the market,- and people go crazy with future announcements......

even the big players as canon or nikon deliver software work-flows to run away.... , dont they have some competent photographers which help to design an intelligant workflow, or whats going on here? i understand it just in fragments. crazy digital age....


backwards:
what helps a backup back if the software dont work? you mean... you need a complete backup set. computer, cables, backs, cameras,- dont forget the backup tripoid.
great idea to travel with that and to shoot jobs as architecture or landscape.

I agree that everyone should have a back up. But what does the back up cost to have on set? $750 to $2,000.00 for the day. With the cost consultants already eating at budgets, how do you say add an extra G for back up. Yeah they won't laugh at that?!

For the lower budget editorials you show up on set with your own gear and have minimal rental budgets and try to pinch a penny where ever you can.

If you have back ups, I think it should be the responsibility of the rental house. If they tell me, OK you can go on set with either a Phase One or an Aptus with no back up. I am going with Phase,
hands down!

Yes the back worked with CF cards, but as PSS said, clients want pop ups on the screen in real time.

It's the way it is.

I luckily have not had an AD say no LEAF. But that is brilliant! AD's that know nothing of gear and now know that LEAF's can be a problem on set.

Got love it

JT, the only conclusion that I can draw from your original account is that your "friend" only has himself to blame for the situation that he found himself in.
IMO, he should be having a long, hard examination of his professional head if he thinks that going to a shoot of this size with so many clients and infrastructure present, with no back up for the capture of the actual image, is a sane way to go about one's business.

Firewalls should be a basic professional discipline: Shit happens - be prepared for it.

Personally, I still have a small emergency back up bag in my car containing my RZ film & polaroid backs, about 20 rolls of film & a couple of packs of polaroid.
Fortunately it gathers dust, but at least I have the option to blow it off.

the shoot as you described had trucks, police,.....i really don't think an extra couple of 100$ would have made a difference.....


think about it this way.....the amount of money spent on a national ad campaign has 2 components: the production and the execution (printing, buying ad space,.....) no matter how big the production number is, it is nothing compared to the second number....so having 2 backs on site is no luxury in my book....of course budgets are getting tighter....i would rather have a second back then a digital tech...

PSS

I agree.

It wasn't my friend. It was TH's friend or TH himself. I always have two digital backs and my 1DsII body with me anywhere I go shoot. Unless it is a low budget editorial and then I have Canon and my Valeo (which has not failed) other than the connector cord to the battery/Hard drive rig.

rehnniar

I agree about your brumbaer product. i don't use it but everyone here and the sinar guys rave about it. How can 1.5 guys make a product that 50 guys can't? And Sinar and Leaf are using the same chip!

Can you get together with RawDeveloper guy and make a killer ap that works for $199.99. I am sure every LEAF guy will buy it.

That tells you something about 50 guys sitting in Isreal looking at each other wondering what to do next. Concerned that they were bought by Kodak who makes the competitions chip.

Is there any conflict there? I wonder, enquiring minds want to know?

HMMMM,, there is something to think about.

Go Kodak, Go Kodak, Go Go Go Kodak, if you can't do it nobody can! insert jumping cheerleaders.

When reading this threads complaining about Leaf, I do got the feeling that I most be the most lucky photographer on the planet, since I manage to get beautiful files out of my Aptus 75 day after day……...

Since I’m an architectural photographer I do not shoot 2000 files per day, but when shooting to my MacBook Pro 17” I connect/disconnect 30-50 times per day too version 10.1 beta 070218 with none/no/zero issues what so ever!!

Same experience with the version before.

The earlier versions where not that stable.

There is the known problem with the 17” MacBook Pro, that it need to be connected to the power supply most of the time due to low voltage on the firewire bus, if the battery goes under 85% in power it’s a must, but the setup as it is now is 100% stable in my case.

I do not use V10 for development but prefer Lightroom instead - but that’s an other story.

Again, maybe I’m just lucky

Very best,
Adam

You are not alone and actually I do photograph 2000 files per day with no issues.
I love my back ( A75 ) and have no problems with it.

Gustavo

Up to this post I was thinking...JT..just shut the f... up....but you`re true with this. If Brumbaer can do it, why the others not?!

Still, cool down.

And about back up. A roll of 120 is about 20 $ with processing and contacts. May be not instant, but still a viable option for the worst case. F... deadlines anyway.

Here is what I posted earlier today on the Leaf forum. At this point I think that any furhter grinding of that case is meaningless:

All,

thank you for posting and sharing your experiences and concerns, I would like to inform that we have contacted the photographer who had this crisis on the day he´s reported it. We are following up and analyzing the source and possible cause of the described issues.
Of course if the back has developed a FW problem it will be repaired under warranty.

This morning the photographer has informed us that after replacing the FW cable, the system seems to be running OK during a quick test. He is on a busy schedule and advised that as soon as he finds time to go through additional tests (computer/ system/ software and back) he will get in touch with the local support team.

I shall report again as soon as we have a conclusion for this case.

Best regards,

Yair"

As far as "general reliability" is concerned, statistically, the TBF (Time Between Failures) of Leaf backs is over 1,500 days. This is considered to be a very good figure at any standard in any industry.

I don't know the figures of other MFDB manufacturers and I assume they have their own statistics.

As many stated before, information on forums can be very useful with the risk of being misleading.

Count the number of REAL posters on this forum and do the math yourself...I'm affraid it does not necessarily reflect the reality of our industry. The majority of cases are solvable over a phone call to a trained dealer or to the local rep.

Yair