One of the most frequently asked questions L-L Customer Service receives is:
I am interested in collecting the various methods and observations that customers have when they watch our download video on a television so that I can create a more extensive webpage of answers and methods.

My stock answer to the question is that the files will look best if played through a hardware conversion device such as an Apple TV, a Sony Playstation or an XBox.
[I export the download files through QuickTime Pro to Apple TV format (when necessary for AAC sound conversion) and then play the component signal on a HD set - the most recent stuff looks great.]

But not everyone has or wants such a device... although my betting is that such devices represent the main thrust of future web/video development.

So, what success have others had with conversion to DVD? My results are disappointing and I reluctantly tell customers that it is possible to put them on a DVD but the resulting video will look sub-standard. Essentially that process is like opening and saving a JPEG photograph: compression on top of compression looks like crap.

Has anyone had reasonable success with a scan converter? If so, which model?

Are there any other viable methods?

All suggestions welcomed.

Chris Sanderson

Have you experimented with this?

http://www.sharewareguide.net/Audio-Multim...dvd-burner.html


Well never mind...i tried it and even though it says it does .mov files it says file format not supported.

Everyone should get some type of media streamer. It really is the way to go for watching various types of files on the TV.

Chris,
First I must say that I'm far from an expert in TV/Video/DVD stuff but I tried to encode the standard LL-VJ 16 and LR tutorial and put them on DVD. I was never satisfied with the final quality. I now use my MacBook Pro and connect it directly to my TV set using an Apple DVI to Video adapter. Quality is OK and much better than my miserable attempts.

I watch the video on my computer. It's interesting that you ask this question because just last week I bought my first HDTV. On the back of the set is a input for a computer display. Just for yucks I attached my old PC and was blown away at how nice the image looks.

I'm tempted to run my new monitor calibration SW on this puppy. I have to assume that it's only a matter of time before monitors and TVs are the same device.

I export the files to dvd video with VisualHub (http://www.techspansion.com/visualhub/).

I think a divx version of LLVJ and tutorials would be perfect. High quality and high compatibility with many devices, I'm a mac user but quicktime files are very problematic.

I use AoA DVD Creator to make a DVD for viewing on standard resolution TV. It seems to work OK and the quality is OK, I suppose. I use the AoA software very simply (have only done this twice) so perhaps I've missed some setting or other.

I did have a problem in that the audio and video got out of sync towards the end of the show. Very irritating. Oddly enough, I rewound a little bit to review something and on replaying synchronization was restored.

I use a mediaplayer (like MB200/Tivx4200 etc.) and as viewing device a high-end CRT projector with a Crystalio II 3800 videoscaler.

A pretty nice setup, the videos didn't cut it quality wise due to judder, but that has been solved

Frank, I read somewhere that PixelMagic's MB200 does not support H.264 encoded video - which ours now all is. Have you had any problems that might indicate this?

CS

AoA is the only app I have found to do the current files. Everything else lags on the audio.

DVD Flick was my fav before the format changed.

Hi Chris:
I am using NERO and it did a fine job. I can't attest to highest quality as my TV is not HD but it is large screen (48") and the quality is as good as what I see coming from most of the cable channels.
I did notice that by compressing more of segments onto one disk I lost some quality but at highest quality (2 segments to one DVD) setting it seemed fine for me.

Thanks for that Dave,

I was looking for this info.

Now, I can sit back and enjoy this

Henrik

I don't mind watching some shorter segments on the computer, but my preferred platform is still the TV. I'm running Windows and tried a number of different programs (more than I would have liked) - including AoA and Nero - which had audio and skipping problems. Finally found TMPGEnc Dvd Author which provided a clean, good quality conversion and decent menu templates.

that didn't work that well for me, I have to try something else

thanks

Henrik

Sorry for the late reply.
H264 HD is not supported by the Mediabox indeed.
However it does play it sometimes.
For the LL I use the TIVX4100 at the moment, that plays all.

Before that I converted the LL videos back to MPEG2 a 5 minute job most of the time.

I don't care much for the container as long as the quality is good, would love to see HD
you can always convert to something that can be played.

HOWEVER that said.
With all the mediaplayers out there at the moment like the PS3, Xbox360, MB, Tivx I think it would be wise to choose something that is universal playable.
Like H264.

Hi Chris

Sorry to come in on this so late.

I have tried Nero, AoA and various others but found sound synch problems, video stalling etc. etc.

I then saw a comment on one of these fora recommending
"TMPGEnc DVD Author 3 with DivX® Authoring"

I am trying this at the moment and it seems to work fine, decent quality picture and sound in synch, I'm quite impressed

Not as good as the full DVD version of the VJ but quite acceptable.

I also tried it on C2P and find that the 24 fps makes a big difference.

Cheers

Bob

I tried Nero 8 Ultra over the weekend to convert the Lightroom tutorial. The video converted pretty well but there is no sound. I'm going to try again and see if there was an option mis configured or if it was just a bad burn.

Chris, I currently have the video feeding to my TV (Sony 20") from my computer via s-cable and running at 800x600. The sound is through the computer systems speakers. I hate this type of setup, but it's the only way I can watch the video segments on TV until I can get them to properly burn.

I use Nero 6 and usually burn one zip file's worth of videos onto a 4Gb disc. I don't compress, if it won't fit on one disk I'll put it on the next. The video quality is as good as viewing in QT Pro and I get to sit back in front of the Sony 32" HD CRT monitor instead of hunching over a 19" LCD.

As I recall, a couple of the Develop videos in the LR tutorial burned with no sound no matter what I tried. A later download fixed the problem.

C2P #17 also won't play well with Nero, it refuses to load at all. All the others burned just fine. VJ 15 & 16 burned fine, all chapters. Cris, maybe you can fix the C2P 17 file?

I run a mid-level Intel C2D/Windoze system, XP Pro 32-bit. Nothing special, about a year behind bleeding-edge, plenty of RAM, a couple of Raptors for OS/programs and a couple of Seagates for data. Two calibrated 19" Viewsonics driven off an ATI X1950 Pro card. Pretty vanilla by today's standards. But it works for me and didn't break the bank to build.

Nero 6 seems to handle the files just fine with the exceptions I noted. I don't have any experience with AppleTV, the PS2 is stacked in a corner somewhere and I never bought an X-Box. I play the DVD's on a regular Sony player using component output.

Bill

I watch it on my livingroom mac-mini connected to a 32'' flat tv by vga using front row. The quality on full screen is good. Chrissand: I think you have chosen the right compression method.

The best way to covert is to rip to AVI then encode to MPEG


Please remember that that the video's are copyright of Luminous Landscape and this would require permission

Robert

Hmmm - the topic was Download video being outputted to a TV; perhaps you are referring to ripping the physical DVDs to a computer viewable file format? - for backup purposes only of course

actually for Mac users, HandBrake encodes to H264 mp4 files are the way to go...IMO

Chrissand

any transfer of video encoding will result in loss of quality I was only advising the way with the least loss.
I would would not use a TV instead of a Calibrated Monitor the distortion and tone shift would devalue the content of any tutorial/Video journal in my opinion.

Robert

Or use a calibrated TV/projector

I tried a couple of things, one works one does not.

First I tried streaming from my computer to my xbox 360 using TVersity. TVersity is a free download... Works great, as long as the source is NOT a .mov file. TVersity attempts to transcode .mov on the fly and convert it to a source which is playable on the Xbox. Although I have read that this is compatible if you use 3rd party plug ins, I could never get it to work after many hours of trying. It did display my file one time, but the second attempt to get that same file to work failed. I could never get it to work again.

I just purchased TMPGEnc DVD Author 3 with DIVX Authoring. This allows you to burn to DVD's. This solution works great. Nice letter box output (or other formats) and sync'ed audio with no issues at all. It will let you create very nice menu systems, and a whole bunch of other stuff I will never use.

I really wanted to be able to stream .mov files like I do with mpeg video, my music files and photos. But it turned out to be a big waste of time.

So if you don't mind spending 90 bucks on software, TMPGEnc works fine.

Regards,

Ned

Yeah, for our recent stuff, I have tried to stay away from .mov files and have posted most everything as H264 encoded .mp4 files. I take it from your post that these files have worked on the TVersity?
CS

I'm running my old pc and J. River Media Center connected to my TV via a nice HDMI cable. As the TV is basically a big computer monitor this works fine.

This is proving to be a nice setup. I can put a new set of files on this thing and do an initial preview of all my images on a really big screen. Way cool.

I posted earlier my experience with Tversity. I couldn't get it to work with a .mov file. Just the other day I down loaded the latest version. We'll the stars must have been aligned because now it works. :-)

I am able to stream the videos, even the LR2 Hi-dev videos over my wireless network and output them to my xbox 360 for display. Cool. Only "problem" I have is if I set the resolution to anything above 800x600 in the Tversity software the video will pause while the buffer catches up. Not sure of the cause, it could be that my wireless network is not fast enough to keep up. But even at 600x400 output to my Sharp LCD TV it is very usable.

This is exactly what I have been looking for. I store all of my LL videos on my PC, and I simply use the xbox remote to navigate to the video, sit back sip some scotch and enjoy!

Highly Recommended

I view LL videos on a 46" Sony LCD Full-HD TV. I connect my computer to the TV with a standard monitor cable and use it as a second monitor. I use Nero ShowTime as my viewing software. I am very happy with the results! Production is top notch. Keep up the good work Chris!

Actually, I gave up trying to watch the L-L downloads - haven't even watched the last one completely. As much as I enjoyed the L-L videos (I have all of them), it became too much of a hassle. The download plays OK with Quicktime but Quicktime takes over my business computer and really messes up the default file associations. Supposedly the Quicktime file associations can be configured but that feature doesn't seem to work for me. So to watch L-L I have to install Quicktime, then uninstall and re-configure my computer.

Previously I was able to use AoA DVD converter to make my own DVD for TV playback but that software no longer seems to work on the L-L downloads.

Instead of a pleasant evening watching L-L DVD on the TV, the download and processing became an exercise in frustration. There's a good chance that I'm not the only one feeling this way as I'm otherwise considered fairly adept at these computer thingies.

The strangest aspect of this frustration from my point of view is that I fully supported the change from mailing to download. In fact, changing to download is exactly what I would have done under the circumstances. I just can't get a usable product out of it.

Gordon,

Sorry to hear that it isn't working for you.

Since many thousands of people have been downloading and watching the videos successfully over the years I can only assume that the problems that you're having have something to do with your particular computer and set up.

Have you tried using VLC or some other player besides Quicktime?

Michael

I'm sure that the problem lies in my setup and my own skills but can't find a workaround. I gave up in frustration but will be trying again.

Would it be possible to offer an Apple TV friendly download? It would seem to me to be more efficient to do one conversion rather than having 100s/1000s(?) of people doing it at home.

Steve

another vote for TMPGEnc Dvd Author, it does a good job. BUT it could not cope with the recent LR2 HD video, I had to get the SD version to get it to a DVD for TV use.

Bob

Cris,

I just got finished burning the LR2 Guide to DVD using Nerovision 5.3.9 and the results are excellent. I just brought the files into Nero until I filled up a disc, did some combining and chapter splits to clean up the menu and burned. It took 3 dual-layers and one single-layer.

Viewed through a Sony player, component output into a Sony HD monitor, the video is comparable to what I see on the computer screen. No lags in audio, video breakups or any other problems.

Same results with the C2P video and the first LR guide, although with a previous Nero version.

I wish you guys would make these available on DVD but I understand the drawbacks from your POV. It would just save me some time.

Thanx for a great job,

Bill

P.S. Gordon, try QTlite http://www.codecguide.com/qt_lite.htm It allows you to play QT videos in your browser but doesn't muck with your file associations or eat up system resources. My default player for .mov files is Nero but I can also play them through WMP so maybe it installs a codec for the Apple files. FWIW, I also have iTunes installed but it isn't the default player for anything. HTH....

Thanks for the tip about VLC -- it works just fine. I disassociated all file types before installing just to be sure.

I'm glad this thread resumed. I'll probably be trying some of the other programs that have been mentioned to get a TV version.

My wife really enjoys the less technical parts of the LLVJ but she's not going to sit in front of a computer to watch it.

I used QT Pro on my MacPro 8-core to convert the LR 2.0 Tutorial to Apple TV compatible files. Michael and Jeff are almost life size (well maybe not Jeff) on my 55" plasma TV.

I did the same for the HD versions of LLVJ - awesome!

Bud James
North Wales, PA.

I would like to convert the Journal and tutorial downloads to DVD format for more comfortable viewing. I've read through this thread and besides being confused by the jargon, I have the impression that there isn't a good way, results wise, to do this. If it's not doable at this time, I'll continue along on the computer/tv setup that I have. If there is a way that it can be done simply, with good results, I'd appreciate a recommendation as to what software to use. I'm using Windows XP, on a PC and although computer literate, am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination. Thanks for your assistance.

I watch them on a 120" projector screen, outputting from PC via dual DVI outputs, directly from iTunes. I'd prefer to have the files in .wmv or .avi format, as then I'd be able to stream from my PC to PS3 using TVersity Media Server without having to set up the computer screen.

I agree with some of the comments: having a single file to download would make my life much easier. Having to download a bunch of zip files, open them up, import them to iTunes, and watch them one-by-one (haven't found a way to continuously play video files in iTunes) is quite annoying. Having a good selection of video formats preferably in one (zip or not) file would go a long way towards easing that.

A huge advantage is the lack of DRM, which I extend my sincerest thanks to you, Michael, and whoever else is involved. I wouldn't touch a DRMd file at all due to the additional hassle involved, treating customers as potential criminals, and the possibility of losing access to the files when/if something goes wrong.

And to ease bandwidth pressures, going to an optional torrent download might help. You could set up a passworded torrent tracker and offload much of the bandwidth to elsewhere. This would be especially useful during the first few days of releasing a new video. Pure Pwnage (a Canadian computer gaming series) has been using bittorrent for years very successfully.

I use my TiVo to watch the LLVJ downloads on a 42" HDTV. Quality is great and it's very simple. Basically, you tell the TiVo Desktop software where to look for video files on your computer, then it automatically transfers the videos to the TiVo. Then, just go to the TV and watch. Works great.