i was just checking out michael's "what's new " page and came across this:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/whatsnew/

It has also been mentioned in another thread. I am not sure where that leaves me at the moment.

I use a CF39 and H2. I was thinking about upgrading towards multishot but will be holding of that decision until I can get some confirmation that I am not on a dead track.

I specifically went for the CF because of the adapterplate system. Now, I just wonder when Hasselblad will be leaving the CF route

I might be tempted to upgrade the whole thing towards the H3DII39MS if I can get a decent upgrade price but I have heard figures of upgrading an H3D39 to a H3D39II of over 15K USD which I find ridiculous!

I was thinking of the same thing but decided to upgrade anyway to H3DII39MS only the price tag I got quoted today for the Complete Kit is US$40,680 less the 80mm lens I already own, Delivery January 2008. If I upgrade, there is more room for comfortable price difference.

I have to say after looking at the H3DII39 model I was immpressed,
esspecialy now with MS you are basically looking at complete camera to fit any occasion.

The H3DII39/H3DII39MS back will work on Mamiya RZ67, View Cameras... perhaps locked, but compatible enough!!!

Excuse me!!!????? 40K USD as an ugrade from the H2CF39 to the H3D39IIMS????

I know it works on quite a few bodies but the one I really like, it will not. I will have to get another back as well.

I got the CF for the plates and possibility to upgrade to multishot. Who in his right mind is upgrading towards a dead end and upgrading to the H3blablaMS is absurd for 40K!

It is starting to feel really painful somewhere in the back.

Any thoughts on how this will impact the sale of used H1/H2's?

This makes me very angry. Every few months or so Hasselblad changes their strategy on equipment that costs more than many automobiles. This is absurd. I remember less than a year ago, the Hasselblad CEO stated they were going to continue the H2 line as they developed their closed H3D systems. However, this might drive the prices of the used H2s up since there are still a lot of folks who like the non-hassy digital backs.

I mean, US$40,680 is not the upgrade but the Complete Kit. However, I already own the lens, perhaps they can replace it with HC150mm N with no additional cost.

I always negotiate the price as if I'm buying Complete Kit, after I negotiate the upgrade to see if there are any benifits to returning customers.

There's already a thread about this here:

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=20194



/Samuel

Well I must say this comes as no surprise, it's been on the cards for a while hasn't it ? What does surprise me is the anger of those photographers who knew it was coming and still bought the H2.

Just wait until they're the last man standing, and see how much their upgrade prices are then ! Quite frankly the new Canon 1Ds 111 is looking more appealing every day.

Pete

It is not so just the H2, it is also the fact that Hasselblad is closing out everybody that has a Hasselblad/Imacon back that is not a H3 back.

I own a Hasselblad back but find myself soon unable to mount it on a current Hasselblad body. There are a lot of people that are in the same situation. I was just starting to enjoy using the H. I guess for my next upgrade I will be seriously considering a Sinar Hy6 multishot (unless they want to drop the adapterplate system as well).

It feels like Hasselblad is screwing over everybody including their current customer base, everybody but new owners.

I can understand people to be upset.

I do not agree with this vision.
First: hasselblad is now creating the best possible DSLR in Mf. In film days you could not mount a mamiya back on a bronica and others.
The HY6 platform also is a " closed " platform just in the way the H2F seems to be.
Phase is surely re-vitalising a well know medium format system that vanished some time ago, or they are building a new one themselves ( with carl zeiss i think as CZ has no possibillities anymore to sell their lenses but has the legal rights for the contax 645 stuff.)
mamiya will soon when their ZDII wil appear also close their system: that is the only way t survive.
Second: When you do an upgrade to a new back, the body-upgrade is almost always included. So i think it is not that bad thing as many like to think.
It is a very small and competative marked in wich we have to much players at the moment and some will have to go.....

We will see, when Hasselblad is on the level they should provide really appealing upgrade deals.

As I said. I might be tempted to swap my CF for a H3MS but it better be a good deal since that also means giving up a system that I rapidly grew in love with (the adapter plates.).

Otherwise I wished Hasselblad would make the CF fit the H3, now that would make me really happy.

But you could put any film of choice in your back. And everytime a new film emulsion came out you could upgrade at the cost of the new film only.

In the film days you could put any film you liked in your back, why would you put another camera back on your body ? That comparison can't be made here.

Hasselblad might be " creating the best possible DSLR in MF " but that's a matter of personal opinion. What they are undoubtedly doing is creating the most expensive. As their unit sales drop the prices are going to have to rise. They can't keep screwing around with their current users, the market is not that big. They are playing a dangerous game. The way all the MF makers are behaving at the moment is bad for the MF market in general. Prospective MFDB buyers are just going to buy the latest high megapixel SLR from Nikon or Canon at a fraction of the price and still be able to use their old lenses at the same time. Irrespective of the fact they will not be getting the MF look.

Not everyone is fooled by slick marketing bull.... all the time.

Pete

You still can perfectly use all your lenses and even more when time goes by. So why all the fuss. You upgrade every 3 to 5 years so there is no reason for panic. The upgrade possibilities are perfect and backs always get better. Perhaps you can upgrade to the new Phase camera....

Its becoming pointless to keep comparing film to digital.

It's very interesting, in light of the other threads where I have expressed my dislike of such a closed system, to read other responses on this thread.

At the end of the day, Hasselblad are going to lock everybody who wants to shoot Hasselblad into 1 or 2 camera bodies, 1 small range of backs, 1 set of lenses, and then dictate when you upgrade and what you upgrade to, helping you in that choice by discontinuing your current system, and therefore sending resale prices though the floor, unless, of course, you spend huge amounts of money upgrading through their 'official upgrade path'.

This would be more acceptable if they were producing a camera system which was much better than any other camera at everything... but lets face it, it's the real world, and while the product will be very good, it won't be that good.

I got the impression some people thought I was being a little cynical about Hassleblad's developments, in light of apparent marketing strategies. I wonder do they think that now?

Anyway, it's only money...but not mine!

How much did the (film)back maker get every time you bought some Kodak or Fuji stock? And could you "upgrade" your film back when a new technology arrived (to one that held the film flatter, maybe with that cool new vacuum technology everybody was raving about?)

On another note, I don't support the "new" strategy from Hasselblad at all. There will always be full support for open standards from my camp. It just seems I will not have that luxury (sadly.)

-axel

I believe that Phase One is simply too strong competition and such a power player in this camera war. Now that H1 and H2 has become the vehicle for Phase Ones recent success Hasselblad is cutting Phase One off.

Hasselblad knows that H2 is currently the best platform for Phase One backs. Just forcing people to use a sync cable is a dirty enough trick to handicap H2 as a Phase One platform of choice. Phase One probably sells more H-series systems than Hasselblad currently their DSLRs and this must be a big embarassement and scare for Hasselblad. Since Phase One is still the strongest and owned by some very rich people and companies, Hasselblad can't even buy them from distorting the market. Time will tell. These are ofcourse my guesses only.

But as a H1 user I feel totally betrayed, but who cares. Just some months ago avid Hassie defenders flagged here how Phase users can still buy H2 and so on but now we see that even this is no longer an option...

Can you use the new 28mm with your H1/2 ? Also why do I have to upgrade every 3/5 years ? I didn't have to with my Hassleblad V system !

Pete

here is a system for everybody:
available with ALL Dbacks

2 different bodies, one smaller, handheld, one more for studio use, neither need any cable to communicate with (most of) the backs...all can still use film

unparalelled range of lenses for both bodies, older style lenses still work with sometimes limited functionality, new lenses coming out

vast system including T/S, macro,...

dirt cheap compared to other systems

full integration with existing 4x5 systems

makes and sells its own Dback at much cheaper cost then all others

anything i am missing?

The 28mm can't be used with the H1/H2, but it also wasn't available when most people purchased their H1/H2's and when it did become available it was made very clear that it wouldn't. Basically the functionality of your h1/H2 has not changed in a negative way ever. There have been many refinements to the firmware for the H system that updates all h1's, H2's and the H3D's, so to say that H1 users have been left behind is nonsense.

You do not HAVE to upgrade, what you buy today or bought 3/5 years ago works just as it always has, just because a manufacturer comes out with soethign new doesn't mean your old stuff doesn't work anymore, and unlike the 35mm DSLR's at least you do have a path that isn't paying full price.

Despite your reasoned arguments once again Hasselblad have upset more of their customers - me not included.

My contention is that Medium Format Digital needs as many customers as it can get and Hasselblad is going the right way to putting people off. Thank heavens for Mamiya is all I can say. A new DSLR is still cheaper than an upgrade to a new digital back !

Pete

This is no 100% true. If my H2 body breaks there's no replacement from my dealer. Yes, an used one but do you know how much do they cost on Ebay? 4000 Euro or something? Just insane. You can buy a mamiya body for 500 € or a contax for about 800 on Ebay, but a Hasselblad H? Just no way...

All I can say is that my H2 arrived for one month ago. I've had H1, Contax 645, Mamiya AFDII and at least I decided to go with the H series again. WRONG DECISION!!
Ohh yes, Hasselblad is putting me off...

Hasselblad has said they will continue to repair H series for at least 7 years. You can still get an old V series repaired as well, seems they stand behind their products pretty well. Too bad you bought the Contax, how do you get a new replacement for that now??

of course the functionality has changed with this announcement...your H1 and 2 you bought 2 months ago is obsolete for any other future back other then hasselblad...actually for those as well...do you really think that phase leaf or sinar will make their next back in a H mount?

defending hasselblads desicion from a financial and market position standpoint i up for debate and future will tell it it was the right one for them..... but saying that after todays announcement that H1 and 2 owners aren't left out in the rain is just crazy...sorry...

the writing was on the wall....anyone who bought a H camera to use with a non hasselblad back in the last year had their blinders on....

Maybe this will teach prospective hasselblad users and current owners that their trusted company only cares about the financial bottom line, not the customer- IMO.
I was considering Hasselblad until they released the H3D with lenses that only worked with the H3D and Hasselblad backs.
I ended up going with Phase one and a Mamiya system, hoping to upgrade to the Rollei HY6 when it becomes available.

Anybody would think you worked for Hasselblad ! I wonder.......

Pete

My guess is that you were only considering the Hasselblad H series as a platform for a Phase back; a Hasselblad back was never on the radar screen. And, that's exactly why Hasselblad did what it did. They apparently made a strategic business decision that they could not prosper in the future as a camera maker selling cameras and lenses for use with Phase and Leaf backs, while trying to compete with Canon. Becoming Contax or Mamiya was not acceptable. Who knows if the decision will pay off for Hasselblad. For end users, we may all wish that things were different in an ideal world. You could have an H platform that worked with all H lenses and all digital backs. Others could have a completely integrated Hasselblad product of camera, lenses and back that worked seamlessly with the Hasselblad software. However, assume that ideal world is off the table and the choice is between a market in which we have an H3D that works as a seamless package with new lenses, accesories and software or, alternatively, a market in which Hasselblad goes under and becomes a new version of Contax. Which alternative do you prefer? Is it so clear to you that the latter alternative is preferable for us as end users?

No actually I was greatly considering a Hasselblad back only. but when I saw that they screwed over their H2D users I took this as a hint that maybe one day they might do it again.

Did they screw over the H2D users? I though they were given a very favorable upgrade path to an H3D. (In contrast to the H3D owners who have to pay $15K to upgrade to an H3DII.)

Yes, In my opinion.

What's the implications for Phase One?

And if a photographer wants a detachable back to use on a technical camera as well as on a medium format camera can the detachable back from the H3D be used witha technical camera?

The back on an H3D can be removed and used on anything that will accept an H mount.

Just to drive the point home, can we now not assume that the H4D will be Uni-Body Construction, like the Canon? Isn't it headed that way?

I'm sorry but what a load of rubbish.. H2D owners were offered upgrades to the H3D for 1000 euros or in many cases at no charge.

I do wish people would get their facts straight THEN start bashing Hasselblad.

Nick-T

Yeah apparently the Hy6 is completely open.. you can put any back on it (Phase, megavision, Bigshot etc) and their unique mounting system means you will be able to put ANY lens on the Camera. Also you will be able to take a Leaf Afi back and put it on a Sinar badged Hy6..

Nick-T
PLEASE NOTE THE ABOVE POST MAY CONTAIN TRACES OF SARCASM

a camera can only let backs get mounted on it...and most backs in circulation today have camera specific mounts, so the idea that the Hy6 will all of a sudden magically morph to accept all backs is ridiculous.....i think you should get your arguments straight before bashing people here....who by the way seem to have made the correct choice for their needs...even if they did not know why at the time....

This actually might prove to be correct... So watch out where to direct your sarcasm at.

I never liked the H2 camera anyways.....used it on 3 jobs and had problems on 2 of them...lens didn't connect, and other stupid issues.

So I am glad I decided for the Mamiya 645AFDII..works like a charm and never has any other problems than empty batteries (and AA's are available everywhere!) and as an added benifit I can use the same back on my other Mamiya 67 as well....if I need to shoot over 125

Well, I feel the perfect fool. I just got a new H2 and P45+ a few months ago. So now I have an orphaned camera. Thank goodness some of the view camera adapters can take an H mount. But the whole point of the Phase/Blad combo was that they were integrated and talked to one another electronically. So I guess it is a good thing that I am very happy with what this system does today, but hoping for any future firmware improvements to the camera is not terribly realistic.

Standing back from this a little bit, I'll bet that the people at Phase One are going to have some serious discussions over the next few days. This announcement leaves them with very few full MF system camera options at the moment.

Anyone know how easy it is to get phase to change the mount on a P45 to another system like the Mamiya?

The quote I received a year ago was $2500 and it was about 4 weeks wait.
However I believe that with Phase you have an option to change the mount in the first year. I am just relying on my memory. Do not hold me to the last part.
Andre

Hi!

I don't think so. Mamiya is going to sell a lot of cameras and lenses to photographers having third party digital backs. It may not be a high profit business, tough.

I think that the ZD backs and cameras are a low cost alternative to high end backs. If Mamiya would build a closed system it would need to compete head on with Hasselblad and compete on price. Keeping the system open makes them an alternative to Hasselblad.

Erik

Dear Nick,

I noticed those "traces of sarcasm". Sorry to use this tread, but I have to correct.

The Hy6 is as open as it has been annouced, not more but also not less. There is no reason to mention "Bigshot", "Megavison", or whatsover. Why doing this? This is simply BS, sorry.

NO, you will not be able to put any lens, like on ANY MF camera BUT, you will be able to mount at least all exisiting Schneider 6008 AF or non-AF and 6008 Zeiss lenses, as well as the new Schneider AFD lenses, totally at least 21 lenses.

And there is no trace of sarcasm in my post.

Best regards,
Thierry

All this is unofficial until Hasselblad announces it anyway isn't it? Is there any official source the confirm these news?

Thierry:
Instead of focusing on the tone of Nick's message, why not answer, without double-speak, how the Hy6 is more or less "open" than the new Hasselblad H2F that allows third party backs to be mounted on the camera and connected through a cable, with no ability for the back to directly interface with the camera's firmware? Perhaps I missed it, but I do not recall you ever saying that Phase backs cannot directly interface with the firmware of the Hy6 and a cable connection would be necessary IF Phase ever made a back with a mount to fit the Hy6.

Dear hcubell,

I'm just trying to put things the right way, since they were not excatly. And am not hiding about adaptations on the Hy6. However, you really missed it, since it has been said and explained by myself at least 10 times on LL, and by some others involved.

But I have no problem to repeat it: Phase One IS NOT part of the Hy6 project, by no means, neither technical, nor financial or elses. Sinar, as a back manufacturer, will not make any adaptation for third-party backs, only for its owns digital back models. As I said it many times, for the rest, it is up to Phase to communicate, not Sinar. I think I cannot be clearer as that, and that is the information I have.

Thanks and best regards,
Thierry

However don't forget about the Rollei Hy6, which phase will have a back for.

Anyone that thinks that this is a crap discussion please call

Hasselblad USA Inc. -Digital & Scanner service center
15209 NE 95th Street
Redmond, WA 98052
USA
Phone number +1-800-367-6434.

Talk to the Tech department and ask them about it. I spoke to a tech last night and he had no knowledge of this, he kind of chuckled actually........He then called me back 3 minutes later apologizing stating that the cameras will be repaired for 7 years and they the new bodies will take a 3rd party back via a cable. I told him that cables break and stink to shoot with handheld, oh and I need 3 of them when I go on location. I bet they are $200 each, hahahahahah. Not funny.

Call them for yourself if you have a doubt.

Great!...........going to get a second H2 body....................

Ken

May be I am just dumb old guy. If you substitute "Hasselblad" for "Sinar" in Thierry's statement, than that would/IS Hasselblad's current rumoured statement. I retired early from my very successful creative busines & pursued the Photographic field, but this business model IS what every successful business strives to achieve. If guys/customers got napping than it is their fault, don't blame Phase or Hasselblad. Writing was on the wall, when Phase did not pursue earlier this year to come up with their brand name, along with Leaf, Sinar, mamiya.. Obviously Phase knows something that we are not privy to why they are not pursuing to hook up with a camera manufacture? Usually very vocal @ Hasselblad's mistep & virtues of Phase, may be "Super M" should step out behind the curtain & tell us what Phase One's plans are, as he is so closely associated with them. This certainly would help all of us to "stop flying around like bunch of monkeys".