I will repeat my question since it originally fell on deaf ears:
Now that we have the prices for AFi posted when can we expect a list of upgrade paths for current owners of Leaf products. If LEAF wants me and others to switch to AFi and abandon the H mount they better come with something very logical here. It has been only two months since we upgraded to 75s. Leaf needs to put their new cameras in hands of real shutters and existing clients to post positive reviews before others will jump into the system with their $50,000 investments. To me it is only logical step in current economical situation but then again logic and MFD do not often go hand and hand.

http://AndreNapier.com

i ask the question this morning at the photoplusexpo show here in ny and was told it is currently under discussion....and hopefully we will be given an answer soon.

I'm sure most Sinar users would be interested to know this too.

With Sinar it is less of an issue since it is only the change of an interface plate.

I am pretty sure one of the promo's in the near future quarters for Sinar or Sinar Bron (sometimes the promos are different) will be an H camera trade in of some sort. It only makes sense ....

my dealer in Singapore said that they'll be offering a trade-in promotion...didn't mention if there'll be a fee involved.
so maybe it'll be the same in US

One would think that there was plenty of time ( between starting the camera concept and the posting of prices for new units ) to think of strategies for upgrades.
andre

I agree with you: unfortunately more and more of what happens these days is "MIUAWG"
(make it up as we go!)

I hope this isn't true because Hasselblad would look like angels.....

Hey Andre, Probably why nobody heard your question was being caught between 'Don't buy Hy6/AFi' and the Russel/Tucker 'Abandon LL for a week' post mortum. Since the Leaf 's' upgrade promotion was $3,000US and the regular price is $6,000US, my guess is Leaf will happily take your A75s and give you an AFi7 for $15kUS on this go-around. They may or may not throw in a prism finder but the lens would be an additional cost to you. I would be sucking eggs, of course, because I'm still shooting with an irrelevant A75. I also have the dilema of dumping a discontinued/outdated H1 and the mediocre (H) fuji glass. I may as well hang on until Leaf comes out with the AFi8 so I can really get screwed. God, I hate myself! I'll let you know what the Leaf 'promotion' is from my local dealer on the 29th. David

There is no need to upgrade for exisiting Sinarback users wishing to use the Sinar Hy6 camera: all one has to do is to change the adapter plate, with the exception of the SB 54H for which an evaluation is in process.

However, there is currently a trade-in promotion running since June '07 and until October 31st (lickely prolounged): for those who wish to buy a "Sinar Hy6 - e75" system, Sinar will take back their current MF camera (incl. one lens and viewfinder). For details consult your local distributor.

Best regards,
Thierry

Samuel, did you not read this post of mine?
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....ndpost&p=146794
You could go with a Sinar branded Hy6 and put the Leaf on it.

That is the current policy in the U.S. as any Leaf dealer can confirm.

The Leaf AFi back is only listed in the U.S. as a back and camera body bundle. There is also a different battery for the Leaf AFi than the Rollei/Sinar Hy6.

The Hasselblad designed and Fuji produced "H" lenses are extremely fine lenses. The MTF charts are readily available for all of the lenses and are the standard for qaulity that all of the "H" lenses must meet.

Leaf has been offering free AFi mount changes to purchasers of Leaf Aptus backs purchased after March, 2007.

At this point, my best guess would be that an existing Aptus user who purchased before that date could do a mount switch to Leaf AFi (when they become available) for $2,099 (their normal fee) from whatever mount they currently have (as these mounts become available).

I'm at PhotoExpo this week and will confirm this as much as I can tomorrow (Friday).

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php

I would never pay $2000 to switch mounts for that kind of money, just to buy a Leaf camera. If they want to sell camera's and make the system work they better think about offering free mounts changes with camera purchase.

Just compare this "outdated" camera to whatever you want and you'll find it's not that outdated.
About the "mediocre" fuji glass I just can say the same; Compare it to whatever you want. The only Fuji H I don't like is the zooms bokeh. The rest is top quality.

Tell the magazine publisher that this shot was captured by a mediocre Fuji glass.


Click to view attachment

Is there a new design for battery on AFi7 or is it the same as on A75s?

They're the same.

Not to worry. I like my H1 and the 35,50,50-110,80,100,300,1.7x glass. Just having fun with some of the H bashers on the forum (not including Andre). I'm as interested in the Hy7/AFi as anyone. It does seem like Sinar has a more seamless migration path to the upgrade. And when will either Sinar or Leaf have a single battery solution?

David

Nice shot, Paul, but I still don't like the H glass.

Edmund

What exactly that you don't like?

Some guys know how to make it work, but in all the test shots I have taken I got very harsh skin texture.

Edmund

Deleted.

I deleted my post as I realize it has nothing to do with the topic on hand. Sorry for being impulsive.
Andre

If you feel the lens is too sharp, it's fairly easy to make images softer.

Ok, back to the topic at hand. When I get to the AFi debut in Northern California on the afternoon of the 29th I'll sign you up as a seminar attendee and put the grab on any coupons for the special event pricing for you. How many of these things do you want ?

David

Ok, so it's not a sign-in event and there are no coupons, not even an AFi bundled door prize. The "Event Offering " should last about 3 months. Evidently the west coast Leaf Rep should be getting his demo unit this week. Looks like the New York show had no news but a look-see. I'll let you know what the offering is on the 29th, if we haven't all heard it long before then.

David

Well I am currently pondering an upgrade path myself. I currently own an aptus 22 (6 months old) and a 555 eld with four lenses.

I keep getting editorial assignments where I require auto-focus plus on-camera-flash. I was considering getting a second camera (5d). But have decided to re-invest and a get a camera system that can manage all of my assignments.

My leaf dealer wants to charge me A$10,000.00 to upgrade my near new aptus 22 to an afi 54s. And then to purchase a leaf afi with a 50 and 80 lens, I am looking at an additional of A$20,000 to upgrade my system (A$30,000. total). This is also two lenses short of my current arsenal of lenses (40mm, 50mm, 80mm, 150mm).

On the other-hand instead of paying $10,000 to upgrade my near new digital back, I could receive A10,000.00 from Hasselblad on a trade in, and buy a camera with competitively priced lenses.

I am very happy with the files I get, but saving $15,000 by jumping ship is sounding attractive. I really wish leaf had more attractive upgrade paths, or I wouldn't have to even consider.

Hasselblad also offers A$20,000 trade-in for Hasselblad backs. Where Leaf charges users to upgrade their existing backs making future upgrades sounding much less painful.

Hi Tom
The one thing to consider with both systems is speed. The new 54s (http://www.leaf-photography.com/ShowDoc.asp?MenuID=325&ParentMenuID=316) will shoot at .87 f/s. The H3DII 22mp will shoot at 1.4 f/s. I currently rent the Aptus 22 and besides file quality both of us (M&C) need that extra speed for people. For some photographers this is not an issue. For example I was using an Aptus 65 a few weeks while the Aptus 22 was being shipped in. I found it too slow & was affecting my shoot & its frame rate (Aptus 65 ) is 1.5 f/s. When I shot with the Aptus 22 we were back to normal @ 1.2 f/s. For speed this is where Leaf/Sinar have it over Hasselblad/Phase. The reason being the Dalsa chip vrs the Kodax chip.

Denis

The Aptus 22 recycles at about the same speed that my 555eld's motor drive advances. I have been shooting valeo and aptus for the last 3.5 years and am used to the 1.2 second delay. I am wondering if I would even notice a .2 second time difference between the H3D and Aptus. Although only a demo will tell and as you mention I might hate that. I wouldn't be in this dilemma if Leaf offered an upgrade path that was relative to it's competitors. Very disappointing, a $15,000 difference in pricing may be just too much to stomach for an upgrade. One manufacturer wants to give me 10 grand to upgrade to their system, and the company who I have purchased two backs from in 3.5 years wants me to pay them 10 grand to upgrade.


Hi Tom
The one thing to consider with both systems is speed. The new 54s (http://www.leaf-photography.com/ShowDoc.asp?MenuID=325&ParentMenuID=316) will shoot at .87 f/s. The H3DII 22mp will shoot at 1.4 f/s. I currently rent the Aptus 22 and besides file quality both of us (M&C) need that extra speed for people. For some photographers this is not an issue. For example I was using an Aptus 65 a few weeks while the Aptus 22 was being shipped in. I found it too slow & was affecting my shoot & its frame rate (Aptus 65 ) is 1.5 f/s. When I shot with the Aptus 22 we were back to normal @ 1.2 f/s. For speed this is where Leaf/Sinar have it over Hasselblad/Phase. The reason being the Dalsa chip vrs the Kodax chip.

Denis


Well I am currently pondering an upgrade path myself. I currently own an aptus 22 (6 months old) a 555 eld with four lenses.

I keep getting editorial assignments where I require auto-focus plus on-camera-flash. I was considering getting a second camera (5d). But have decided to re-invest and a get a camera system that can manage all of my assignments.

My leaf dealer wants to charge me A$10,000.00 to upgrade my near new aptus 22 to an afi 54s. And then to purchase a leaf afi with a 50 and 80 lens, I am looking at an additional of A$20,000 to upgrade my system (A$30,000. total). This is also two lenses short of my current arsenal of lenses (40mm, 50mm, 80mm, 150mm).

On the other-hand instead of paying $10,000 to upgrade my near new digital back, I could receive A10,000.00 from Hasselblad on a trade in, and buy a camera with competitively priced lenses.

I am very happy with the files I get, but saving $15,000 by jumping ship is sounding attractive. I really wish leaf had more attractive upgrade paths, or I wouldn't have to even consider.

Hasselblad also offers A$20,000 trade-in for Hasselblad backs. Where Leaf charges users to upgrade their existing backs making future upgrades sounding much less painful.

So that is $10000 for a mount change and staying at 22mp

I take it you are happy with your A22


While I cant divulge sinar pricing my last upgrade E22 to 54LV was less than half of that

With phase a mount change would be free

Leaf are not with the program or you need to pressure your dealer

Mount chage to go with the new body should be FREE - to get you into thier platform and heap of lenses

disgraceful

S

The problem is, is that you cannot put an Aptus 22 on to an AFI, you have to upgrade your back to the AFI equivalent of the 54S (Aptus 22 with fw 800)

Well, have I missed something???
It is a middle of January 2008 and I still have not heard anything about upgrades. Is 75S the end of the road for Aptus users? I STRONGLY BELIEVE IT IS TIME FOR LEAF TO SAY SOMETHING EITHER WAY. WE HAVE BEEN VERY UNDERSTANDING FOR A LONG TIME.
http://Andrenapier.com

To my knowledge there would be no sanctioned Leaf upgrade path to the AFi for current Aptus back users. That would probably not preclude local dealers from taking an Aptus back in-trade, but some dealers may be offering their own Hassey and Leaf inventory before taking on "new", used backs. My understanding is that the Leaf AFi promotion includes one (1) additional year warranty, bringing the total AFi warranty period to two (2) years. The price of the AFi kit from your dealer does include the 80mm glass. Though it is better to buy a Leaf back locally, if you are looking for fair pricing on an AFi, I would recommend Keeble & Shuchat Photography in northern California. No sales tax on units shipped from California. You would contact Don or Mary at (650) 327-8511. Forgive me, I like to plug my dealer.

Best,
David

Andre,

I just received a current trade in promo sheet from Leaf towards the AFi7.

You would receive the following dollar values for you back towards the purchase of an AFi7.

Aptus 75s $14,430
Aptus 65s $6430
Aptus 54s $10,430
Aptus 75 $13,000
Aptus 65 $6000
Aptus 22 / Valeo 22 $8270

Matt LaPointe
Dodd Camera - Chicago
(219) 670-9905
mlapointe@doddcamera.com

Matt,
If the above numbers are correct ( and after selling the basic h1/h2 kit for $3,300 ) it will translate to paying about $17,000 for switching from basic H1 to basic AFI or about $11,000 for switching the mount on practically the same back. I can already see the waiting list forming on this deal.
I hope it is not called camera promotion nor trying to get Hasselblad share of the market.
As a loyal Leaf user I have to say that I am shocked and very concerned. I would say I PASS and reconsider my options.
Http://AndreNapier.com

Well then, what is the M$RP for an AFi7?

Up my numbers by $3000. I did not notice originally that the package does not include lens.

Thank you, Andre.

$35,995 +
$ 3,098=
$39,093

-
$14,430 =
$ 24,663
This seems as the deal

Andre,

Don't kill the messenger! You asked the question and I am just presenting the information given to me by Leaf. Obviously I do not have any control of their promotions or business choices.

Matt LaPointe
Dodd Camera Chicago
(219) 670-995

I got a quote from the Russian dealer:

Sinar Hy6-e75 - 29 500 EUR
Sinar Hy6-e54 - 25 000EUR
Sinar Hy6-m54 - 12 000 EUR
Sinar Hy6 body - 4300 EUR
Leaf AFi 75s - 35 695 EUR
Leaf AFi 54s - 27 495 EUR
Leaf AFi 65s - 25 995 EUR

Huge difference!
Yevgeny

Andre,

Leaf is on your side.
Your numbers are incorrect: Try this deal:

$35,995 AFi7 includes WLF and 80mm lens
-3,599 10% Dealer Discount
-14,430 Turn in your A75s
-3,300 Sell your H1 on eBay
$14,666 Your price for an Afi7 with WLF and 80mm Lens.

Heck, you can pay for this on one good shooting day, You're in there!

The MAP (Manufacturers Authorized Price) for the AFi is $35,995, as TechTalk stated some months ago. This price includes the 80mm Lens. No dealer can advertise below MAP. However, any dealer can sell below MAP to an end-user. Whatever happened to TechTalk, anyway? I was afraid he may have morphed into Ray.

David

I thought MAP translated into "Minimum Advertised Price", no?

The problem is the yellow cast on the Sinar file. I'd rather have the red cast on the Leaf file and LC11. Thank you!

I plead no contest.

David

????

hi David,

Same as Rainer: ???

Bets regards,
Thierry