Hi all,

I'm very much new to this forum. I wish to purchase an Epson 9880 printer and need to know whether I should go for the ColorBurst Edition, with Rip, or not.

I have been looking at printers for a time now and recently attended the Graphics Canada trade show in Toronto to talk to my dealer, and Epson Rep. I was left unclear as to the best choice to make.

I'm an artist/gallery owner, with a background in print production, looking to reproduce my works on canvas & fine art papers, as well as doing some graphic work via Illustrator, Indesign etc. Do I need a third party rip to print vector based art and quality text with this printer? I don't want to buy the printer only to find out I also need to purchase the Rip. If I buy both I'm looking at an extra $800-$1000, much more post purchase.

I'm currently working on a Windows based platform, XP Pro.

I was told by the Epson rep that if I convert .ai files to pdf I would not need the Rip, but I'm uncertain as to whether this would produce crisp graphics and text, or if I would be limited by size? (I may need to produce some large banners for the gallery.)

Much has been learned from your forum as a "guest" visitor and I look forward to new posts on the site.

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

You will NOT need a rip for fine art printing...as to whether or not the rip will be useful for purposes of graphic at output and CMYK proofing, a lot of that would be determined by how often you expect to have to do this. You can take either Illustrator or InDesign files and rip them into Photoshop as either RGB or CMYK very well. But it's extra work and extra steps. If you are going to be doing this a lot then you may well be better off using a rip for that part of your graphics workflow. Also, the ColorBurst rip (the Epson branded that only uses Epson paper for proofing) is a very accurate color for CMYK proof printing. It's certainly possible to do this in Photoshop as well by ripping into Photoshop and using good CMYK profiles, but the ColorBurst rip is well designed for doing this.

So, the short answer is if you are only doing this on an occasional basis, you could get away with eliminating the rip. but if you are going to do this a lot, the rip would be a good workflow investment.

Adobe applications essentially have a built in RIP which means you can print to any non-postscript printer with full postscript and color management support. Printing directly from InDesign and Illustrator is fantastic. Defiantly no RIP required unless you need some RIP specific features like nesting, tiling, long page support or advanced proofing control.
Your Epson rep was misinformed. There is no longer any need to take AI files and RIP them elsewhere.
Long page support is one possible reason to use a RIP. While RIP length restrictions tend to be higher than drivers' they are not unlimited and so the exact specs are worth looking into prior to purchasing. FWIW, there is a way to get around the Epson's driver's 90.5 per page length limitation - I outlined it in an ancient newsletter that can still be found at: http://www.on-sight.com/newsletter/8.html I hope you find this useful.

Hey all,

Thanks for the replys! Much better info then I have been able to get to date. I will watch for further posts and see what else comes up.

As for the Epson rep and printing from Adobe products...I did mention that I thought it was possible to print directly form these products but he seemed to imply that only if a Rip was installed. Also, to further the matter, the vendor I'm dealing with put the question to their tech support and the answer was this..."printing from Photoshop without rip, yes. To print vector and text from Illustrator, or InDesign or any other product..only possible with a postscript Rip."

That is why I'm looking for any opinions I can get...especially from some current owners of these printers who use the Adobe products I have mentioned. If they can confirm printing from these products with clear concise text etc. then I'm set to go without the Rip and can use the extra thou or so for media!

In terms of occasion of use..banners. I know I will manly be using it for art prints with some "titling" text, and occasionally larger posters with graphics and text but am hoping to generate some commercial business with graphics, trade booth designs etc. this I will not know until I start running the printer.

I will check out the archive on the "work around" for page length. All this has been very useful...hopefully someday I can return the favour..

Thanks again,

Shawn

They are incorrect.
I can confirm that it works great on an Epson 4800, 9800, 4000 and all of the smaller Epson's and other printer brands that I have tried it with (too many to list). Pantone spot color matching is excellent with the driver and the right profile too.

Thanks again! The info is extremely beneficial....I expect that if it works fine on the printers you mentioned, then the 9880 should do so as well. Quite often its the people who use these devices that have the knowledge, not the company teckies!

A friend of mine currently has a 7800 and a 9800 so I'm sure he can confirm as well. I did ask him previously but he did not have, nor use, either Illustrator or InDesign, just Photoshop.

I must admit, I did take a dvd image of one of my pieces to the trade show and Epson gladly ran a print for me...20 x 30 " of a commissioned painting I had completed and the colour gamut blew me away. I have 40 or so pieces in limited edition print, (four colour offset) and the Epson print sample was so far ahead it was impressive.

If you have any other advice I would be glad to listen.

Shawn

Shawn,

Why don't you give me a call on Monday and I'd be happy to help you out, as you may know we are an Epson dealer and sell both the Colorburst rip and also Imageprint, which may be an interesting product for you.

Ron Steinberg
Digital Capture Group, Vistek
416-644-8081

Hi all,

Just thought I would bring you up to date on my quest. I did discuss the information I received via this forum with my product vendor and had them verify. In response they admitted that they may have provided inaccurate information and have in fact confirmed and backed the answers provided by this forum as correct, accurate and more up to date then their personnel who had responded. To their credit they also gave me direct contact with a more knowledgeable and up to date tech adviser.

Once again the knowledge base of this forum has given me great inspiration when it comes to questioning the information that is sometimes handed out as accurate. Thanks!

Ron, I'm aware of your company and have visited your website on numerous occasions. As of now I think the Rip is not an issue, and probably out of my price range as it were. I appreciate your offer and may well take you up on it for information purposes but must admit I not sure this forum is the place for a business to push its products, but rather, an open forum for artists, photographers and product users. Although, as I said at the start of this....I'm new to the forum and not yet sure of the regular procedures.

I'm sure the administrator has guidelines regarding this but at this point..thanks for the offer of help.

I hope to have my printer up and running in the next while and am sure to return seeking more advice and at some point can help others starting out.

Shawn

Hi Shawn,

Glad you worked everything out. I usually post in the medium format forum, where several dealers post, both to help and to offer products at times when we see that people are struggling. I am also a professional photographer. But anyhow, I really didn't mean to offend you or anyone else on this forum, I would have offered to have you bring in your files and we could have tried them out with your choice of software to show you that it works without a rip (we have an 11880 and 7880 in the store, still waiting for our 9880, need to sell our 9800 first), and also to show you a different rip that many fine artists prefer for reproduction.

Good luck to you!
Ron

Hi Folks,

Anyone watching this thread may like to know that I just finished unpacking my new Epson 9880. Will spend the next few days getting it up and running and doing some sample prints.

As advised on this forum, I purchased the printer sans Rip software, so, I guess I now get to find out what one can or can't do first hand...

I'll keep all abreast of any outcomes.

Thanks again to all the adice and help.

Shawn

Shawn:

Just some additional info... I have a 7800 for photo work, but we take all of our Illustrator work (large technical posters and drawings) to a service bureau we have used for over a decade. They use a 9600 and 9800. As of last year, they have changed their workflow. They open all files, pdf, Illustrator and others in Photoshop and let it do the rasterization. So they essentially use PS as their rip. They find fewer driver issues and better color control. So if you have any issues going direct from Illustrator, you can always try that alternative before investing in a rip.

I must admit its a nice sight to have a new piece of equipment in the studio! Over the next few days I will try out a couple of options and see what works best. First thing that I noticed, and had seen before in other reviews of the printer, is that the manuals warns that the inks included "are for priming only" order inks as soon as possible!

Guess the purchases start right away.

Shawn

Well, sort of.

It's true you do not Need a rip to do fine art printing- although that really depends on what your definition of "fine art printing" is. You can get good or even very good results without a rip, but excellent (the final 5-10%) is a different story.

The first thing a good rip with the 9880 will get you is the ability to linearize all of your inks individually. What that gets you is slightly better Dmax and color gamut, without overinking your prints. Do you need that? It depends on your image. For many photos on glossy, probably not. For Fine art reproductions of saturated paintings, probably.

With or without a rip, for Fine art reproductions you will need a color management solution for paper profiling. Many good rips come with profiling, including StudioPrint and Colorburst (for colorburst you will need the stand alone rip, Not the Epson stripped-down rip).

Hope this helps, just remember there's no one solution for every need.

Bill

I use I RIP and am happy I do, but- the issue no one has really mentioned here is that unless you are using ImagePrint, you will be plunged into the world of CMYK profiling. First of all, this will require a more expensive piece of software than most prosumers generally use like the EyeOne packages or ColorVision.
Secondly, it will require a major learning commitment to issues like dot sizes, light ink limiting or not, individual ink limiting verses total ink limiting, GCR, channel linearizations, dithers, etc..

I assure you, it's not for the faint of heart. It could well be weeks, and lots of paper and ink, before your first print.
Tyler

Hi Tyler-

I have to say that with Colorburst, the profiling process is not quite as difficult as you state (IMHO). Also, Colorburst comes with its own profiling package. And the measureing instruments will be the same issue, regardless of whether you are profiling in CMYK or RGB. Part of my point was that to do your own profiles, you will either have to buy a rip w/ profiling package, or a separate (usually expensive) profiler.

I certainly agree, however, that Fine Art printing is something that takes a considerable investment of time and money. With diminishing returns, the more you spend of each, the more you get.

Which is why I recomommend to my clients that they think carefully about whether they really want to make their own prints, or would be better off having me do their printing for them!

Bill