I currently have a Contax 645 -- which I love -- but have found myself at a place where I must consider the future.

As I see it now, I have three options for my future. These may seem self limiting to you, but they fit my budget / goals / desires:

+ Continue with my Contax 645, invest in a Phase One or Kodak back.
+ Continue with my Contax 645, invest in a X1 or X5 scanner (currently own a Nikon 9000 which is great for 35mm, not as much for MF and it can't do 4x5)
+ Move to a new MF system. Mamiya is probably my main choice, as I've never enjoyed the Hasselblad line of cameras.

I'm a hyper pro-sumer, fine-art kinda guy. I mix in a number of styles and do some for-fee work (weddings, things like that), and sell a print here or there.

I see the scanner or a digital back as interchangeable. I could, argueably, afford both if I went Kodak, or if I was able to realize a certain percentage off selling the Contax and went with the $10k Mamiya digital combo. But, the CFO may not like that as much

Digital has been a steep learning curve for me, but I think I'm finally through the 5.13 portion of it -- especially with scanning.

So... thoughts from the forum. Stick with Contax, move to a system with more choices (Mamiya), or stick with film for now? Note, one of the above paths will mean a ~4 year lock-in for me, which gives me pause with film.

Cheers,

-Andrew

I'd go for a PhaseOne back. When your Contax breaks, Phase One can replace it; the have a new program where they sell discontinued camera's when needed.
Since Phase is also "in a relationship" with Mamiya, you're pretty secure the coming 4 years.

If necessary, buy a cheap second hand scanner, there's a sh*tload of 'em out there.

Do not buy a Kodak back. Not a smart choice since they are not made and soon to be unsupported. I briefly owned one and it was a dumbass choice on my part.

I have seen some amazing scans from Nikon 9000 scanners. Do you have a wet plate adapter. I would say it will come so close to an Imacon that the cost difference is just not worth it. I owned an Imacon and my Nikon Coolscan 5 can match it.

Phase One is certainly a good path for you. With the value added program you are basically secure in whatever mount you want for 3 years if I remember correctly.

The best guys to speak with are Capture Integration in Atlanta for Phase backs.

Your Contax is still a great camera. One of the nation's top shooters here in Nashville shoots with Contax/Phase. If it can please him enough to keep it, then it should be good for anyone else.

And I'll add. Buying an X1 or X5 scanner from Hassey, while great scanners, will probably result in an item that depreciates as quickly as a digital back and at some point might be harder to sell that a really good back. High end scanners are just not in demand.

Personally, and as a Contax shooter myself, I would go with either a Leaf or Phase back for your camera. Get what you can live with and afford. A refurbished back may just be the ticket if you were actually seriously considering the Kodak back. A plate change is all that is needed to use it with other cameras, ie. Mamiya and because of this it will have a higher resale value, or at least retain its value a bit. You aren't locked in.

Oh, and I'll second that the 9000 is an excellent scanner for the money. You should be able to get more than sufficient results with it. I've used it to do very large POP displays and the results were more than satisfactory in every way and I'm hyper critical.

If you get a sinar or imacon back you are not locked into a system they have adapter plates

IMO the Mamiya with 125 flash sysnch offers no performance gain over the contax exept looking less cool and feeling less like a 'proper camera'

SMM

LOL

I knew there is/was a glass plate adapter ($300 or so from Nikon), but they have a wet mount for these machines? Am I really that clueless?

Thanks for the advice so far all. This is going to be a big decision, and I (being one of those anti-digital, film is the only real thing luddite until a few months ago) am going to need a bit more guidence than normal.

Cheers,

-Andrew

Agreed. With these backs you are not putting all your eggs in one basket. You are free to use it the back on multiple platforms, including the new Hy6 (if you get a Sinar back).

I also agree that it seems not worthwhile to swap from Contax to Mamiya.

Andrew,

Here is some info on Nikon wet mounting:
http://aztek.com/NikonHolder.html

You can buy the holder at B&H if in stock and supplies from Aztek. It might bring new life to your 9000.

Your Contax is a solid camera system. Going with either Phase or Sinar gives you many options if and when you choose another camera platform. With Phase you can have a mount change in three years with a new back (value added). With Sinar, just get a different adapter plate. Both solid long term options.

Personally I shoot with a Leaf but have no problem directing someone elsewhere. Your needs are different.

I had same question.

Since Contax is no longer in production, and Mamiya lenses are cheaper, I have decided to go for Mamiya.

And, now going forward Mamiya is the only partner for Phase One!!! Others are not going towards universal backs. Also, early next year, new Mamiya 645 AFD body will be released by PhaseOne.

Hence I have decided to go for Mamiya AFD II + PhaseOne P45+. If you order before Dec. 31st, you get FREE Mamiya AFD II + 80mm + 28mm (worth $9000 retail).

If you wish, you may give a call to Stephen at Linear Systems, Rancho Cucamonga, CA (909) 899-4345. http://www.linear-systems.com/. I'm sure he can offer you the best deal (if u pay by cash or check, but no credit card) in the country (per my survey and negotaition).

Subrata

Subrata - your pockets are deeper than mine! I wish I could have gone that route

My two favorite lenses are the Contax C/Y 28/2 and 100/2. With a Contax 645AF I could have replicated those lenses pretty easily with Contax's 645AF lens line-up. With the Mamiya I can use Zeiss lenses via an adapter and pretty match the 645AF options I'd be interested in. Ultimately I went with Mamiya because there's a lot momentum on the Mamiya side - new lenses, new body, partnership with Phase, etc. The Contax lens platform is what it is, there is nothing new to come. The Contax platform is viable today, but what about in 2 or 3 years when I need to sell the P25 to fund the next back upgrade? That part worried me. What if Contax isn't popular then?

Right now my only Mamiya lens is the 80mm F2.8 AF. For the Canon 1Ds2 I've run the gamut of Leica lenses, Contax lenses and even having the Contax N lenses converted to Canon EF mounts. All of these has been an effort to overcome the AA filter. The german lenses also have other benefits such as better contrast and bokeh. You could easily say I'm a bit biased in terms of lenses. The 80mm F2.8 AF sells used on Ebay for ~$250. I was joking with my wife that it's ironic after spending all the money on the P25 and AFD II that i'm using a $250 lens. She failed to see the humor

Yesterday the rain stopped and the sun came out, this was my first chance to test the P25 outdoors - with the 80mm F2.8 AF. That little lens is amazingly sharp. Contrast is very good and colors are nice. Supposedly the 80mm is one of Mamiya's lesser primes. I will be adding the 35/3.5 AF and 150/3.5 AF. If those lenses are as good or as better, I don't know if I'll bother with Hassy+adapter lenses.

Here are 18 images - all full size, no sharpening. These did have their levels tweaked in CS3 and I was just seeing how far I could push the files. The skies weren't blown, but I pushed them to white in CS3 (in some cases) because I was playing with levels. Likewise, they are over-saturated because I wanted to see how far they could go before clipping. I don't use C1 much and I goofed on white balance. I had the WB shifted too far to magenta by ~5 clicks. There's a slight purple cast - that's my fault. But as for sharpness and detail, these are good examples -

P25 with Mamiya 80mm F2.8 AF

All the images were handheld and I was seeing how slow of a shutter speed was possible before mirror slap/vibration was an issue. Shooting 1/80 was fine. Anything below 1/40th is pushing it. Metering was pretty good, most of the image were shot with -1/3 or -2/3 EC. I think the 1Ds2 meters better, but the AFD II isn't bad.

One thing I do NOT like about the AFD II is the AF/MF switch. It's at the front of body, the switch is small, it doesn't move easily - so switching between AF/MF while looking through the viewfinder can be awkward. The switch tends to skip over single AF mode and go into continuous AF mode. I shot all the images with MF and learned that I need to pay more attention to focus! Manual focusing is very easy with the AFD II screens vs Canon's, but the DOF is thinner than I expected so OOF'd about 20% of the images. I hope the AFD III brings multipoint AF ---- please, please, please!

The AEL lock button is on the upper right hand corner of the body, and that tends to be where my thumb falls while walking with camera. On several occasions I must have bumped the button because the metering was completely off. In the custom functions I swapped the focus lock and AEL lock button, so in the future that shouldn't be an issue anymore.

Alot of people ding the AFD II body for build quality and I don't understand that. Coming from Canon's 1-series bodies, the AFD II reminds me of Canon 1-series in terms of heft and finish. The buttons are a bit tiny, so if I were Michael I would complain about them because shooting with gloves would be difficult. Other than that, materials, fit & finish and overall operation isn't much different than a Canon body.

The Mamiya AFD II uses a Metz SCA 3952 module for the Metz flashes. I don't have one yet, but I'm not happy about the flash choices. I only use the flash for outdoor fill in daylight and very rarely for indoor use. The Metz's flashes are big and heavy, I'd prefer something much smaller. The Canon 430EX was fine on the 1Ds2 - still a bit big (for me), but it had bounce and ETTL-II so it won out. I'll figure out a flash solution for the AFD II in a month or two; it's not a priority right now.

I haven't used or even held a Contax 645AF, so maybe my opinion would change. But right now I have no regrets or doubts about the Mamiya AFD II. If needed some Zeiss lenses can be used via an adapter, but I'm not feeling the need just yet. That'll probably change because I'm a bit of a lens snob --- I really want a Hass 110/2 Planar "just because". Anyway, I give the AFD II a thumbs up.

BTW - the P25 rattled off 114 images on a fully charged 2500 Mah battery. Afterwards the battery showed 75% remaining. Better than I expected. There's not much point in chimping on the P-series LCDs - I bet Sputnik had a better screen. The screen is fine for checking histo's, but that's about it. The image review is pretty quick - reminds me of the original 1Ds. I foresee buying a cheap MacBook for our next vacation. There's no way I'd use the LCD screen to pick keepers.

I switched to MF just recently.

I nearly bought a Mamiya AFDII + ZD back 3 months ago - but then had the chance to 'play' some days with a CONTAX 645 and was immediately lost to the Contax.

I was able to buy a very little used CONTAX 645 at a very good price with the 35mm, 80mm, 45-90mm zoom and the MF Apo 105 Macro.

Then came the search for a Digiback - and Phase One made me a good proposal for a refurbished P25.

I'm very happy with my choice - even more now after a 3-week trip to Vietnam and Cambodia/Angkor (only regret: for weight reasons I only took the 45-90mm zoom with me).
The Contax 645 works extremely well, all switches and dials are where they should be, the possibility to use a waist-level finder is a huge plus and the Zeiss lenses are tack sharp.

With the P25 I feel comfortable for the next years as for -unlikely for me - upgrading to higher resolution or changing to Mamiya (why??).

The only negative point I see: you need quite some batteries for the Contax body - a high capacity rechargeable battery would be very appreciated, although I managed to get 3 4GB cards filled with one battery in the camera body (I do not speak here of the P25 battery). I don't now the performence of the Mamiya in this respect.

What I'm missing in comparison to my Konika/Minolta 7D are the really long lenses (300mm or even my 50-500mm Bigma) and the high-ISO performance - but that is not the fault of the Contax but comes with MF and the MF Digibacks: MF is another type of taking photos and for different photos!

Conclusion: I'm very happy with the CONTAX 645 feeling of quality. performance and flexibility

Anybody know how much the new 120 mm macro lens cost?
I saw some one in here had it already...
Thanks
Snook

That's me I suspect! I just got mine a few days ago. Vistek sells it for $1999. Suspect they can be got cheaper from B&H but Vistek has been performing some very useful services for me recently so I used them.

I hope to do some comparisons later this week - the 80mm vs the 55-110mm at 80 vs the 75-150mm at 80 and then the 55-110mm at 110 vs the 75-110mm at 120 vs the macro D 120mm.

While I will try and conduct the tests with an open mind, my use of those lenses so far suggests the 75-150 is the sharpest all-round, beaten only by the Macro at close distances (of course) but only very slightly, if at all, at long distances. This is highly subjective and I reserve the right to reverse my views when the evidence is in!

Bill

On their website, Vistek only has the 645's 80mm f2.0 listed and is selling that for $2169! (which is higher than the original price, particularly in US dollars).
see: http://www.vistek.ca/details/details.aspx?WebCode=160868

Very few shops, if any, have new Zeiss Contax 645 lenses lying around. They are all long gone. B&H only has two used 140mm/f2.8 Sonnars for $1099, and $1199. If you got a NEW C645 Zeiss 120 f4 Makro for only $1999, you got very lucky, indeed. Used ones are selling for more on ebaY.

there are rechargeable batteries available for the contax. search in ebay. i use them and they dont last shorter than the normal ones,- in mf mode i can fill also about 12 Gb card space.

although i have the battery grip too, i rarely put it on the contax cause the recheargable option works fine and has much less weight than the big grip.

Kodak back.....

NOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooo............

You can't use current software, 10.4 or 10.5 Not great image quality compared to todays standards. Unsupported.


Ken

www.kevincameras.com

Word has it is a very reputable contax/leica dealer/collector.
Look under Contax SLR
page 11:

120/4 645 apo-macro, 98% mint, $2600.

Edit - paging thru the Contax selection, he has at least two 120/4s listed.

Don't leaving the camera on when you are not shooting, camera battery last very long if you remember to do this.

I think you may have misunderstood, the lens I was referring to was the Mamiya Macro "D". See my report on it in the med. formats threads "Mamiya lens comparisons wanted".
Bill

Well, I have used the Contax almost since it came out, with film the four backs (Kodak, which aint that bad, and the Photodesk SW is quite good; then to P25, P45, P45+)

I hadn't noticed the Contax was discontinued until I tried to buy the Auto bellows, 645! (no warranty needs, lots on ebay to buy)

There is plenty of 'float' and yes, prices are high, but that's because the system is good.

You can use Hassey lenses, and get exposure and focus confirmation. Leica LTM as well

If someone ran over all my Contax with a truck, I would probably go Alpa! (I have the TC and the Schneider 35mm; fantastic to have the non retrofocus option!)

Mamiya just leaves me cold (and I have tried, and just dont like the glass though I havent tried the 28mm)

You will notice almost NONE of the old timers with Contax have switched; and we have had the 'discontinued status for three years already. 15 yrs is my guess before the strain on float w'ill show up (unless Phase drops th mount, but them who needs more than 39MP?)

The Mamiya route will get you a cadillac, but the Contax will be the MB. Just a matter of priorities.

best luck in your decision; BTW I drove Caddies, and loved it for 20 years! LOL

regards
Victor

First off, I'd like to thank everyone on this exceptional forum for their feedback. This was my first post here, and it warms me a bit to have such a great response from my fellow photographers.

My switch to digital has been a painful one, as I was someone who, well, made a lot of brutally unfair statements about digital and refused to change. However, after a lot of reading (especially sites like LL), I decided to change.

As I stand today, I am keeping my Contax gear. However, I'm not going to invest in a Phase (or similar, although Phase is the leader in my mind) at this time. I'm going to go with a Canon DSLR and learn the digital workflow, since the investment cost is approximately half (new to new acquisition), which I see as a bit more (financially) forgiving until I have re-adapted my skill set to the digital world.

Thanks again everyone.

Cheers,

-Andrew

I have my first 645 soon when it became available and use the same one until today, it must have gone thru close to a hundred thousand shots and still going strong, except I did find the sync speed at 1/125 started to see dark edge so for the shoot I require that speed I will change to my back-up body. I compare the 645 with the Hasselblad V, no matter who says what, I will rate 645 more durable and reliable than the Hasselblad V as it never fail. For outdoor, it goes all the way to 1/4000. The battery use to be more of a concern but with the digital back with its own battery, the battery to serve the camera function can last a long long time.
I use the handgrip since it requires the regular cell easily available anywhere also when mounted with a L plate, it gives the camera a better balance shooting both horizontally and vertically.
The biggest advantage for me to use Contax 645 is that with the MAM-1 adaptor, it works with every Hasselblad CF, CF-E and FE lenses. The Contax 645 own lenses are all first class and all reasonally priced.

Hi Andrew,

Get a decent DSLR, a couple of good lenses (like "L" glass) and use a good RAW converter (like Lightroom) and you will be astonished by the results.

Best regards

Erik

i use the contax with sinar backs and with 35/55/80/140/210 and some hassy lenses and in short words....: i think its a great camera.

Erik - beat me to the punch. I'm between the 1Ds MK II and III right now. I have a big trip to Liguria coming up in April, so that weighs on my mind, as I'll be living from a camera pack the whole time.

Cheers,

-Andrew