I have no idea why he would lie on purpose, although I find it almost impossible to believe that a CPS representative would NOT know about any 1DsMKIII camera in for any type of repair. You've gotta believe that they all talk to each other about what problem each is taking in, especially when you've got such a new model. He did say he had read about the alignment problem on one of the forums. Has it been discussed anywhere else in as much detail? I can only hope that in dismantling my camera and putting Humpty back together again, they don't screw something else up. I guess I'll know in a couple of days.

"Canon admits fault?" - Title on the front of this weeks BJP magazine.

Has anyone read page 8 of this weeks British Journal of Photography? (V155 N7672)

A half page article titled "More grief for Canon" accompanied by a nice picture of a 1Ds MkIII.

I quote.... 'We are aware of some issues relating to the viewfinder alignment,' a Canon spokeswomen tells BJP. 'The issues are currently under investigation. If any customers are experiencing such issues we are asking them to take their camera to their local service department for checking.' Canon says it will release more information about the problem at a later stage.


When they update the page on www.bjp-online.com to this weeks issue you should be able to read the whole article.

So, are will still nit-picking, unrealistic photographers who don't understand that we're not living in a perfect world? - Looks like the "hired guns" were actually just photographers wanting to get what they'd paid for ..... what do you think Lester?

Thanks for that info - I just happened to call Canon at Elstree this morning, since I might be working near there later in the month, and could drop the camera off for adjustment.

They said it would take 3-4 days and since I don't live nearby, they would courier it back to me.

Mine is 0.4 degrees out, which doesn't impinge on enough work that I wanted to get it sorted immediately. It rates as a mild annoyance that I can usually work around, just I'd rather not ;-)

And lest the 'fanclub' think I'm moaning too much, I still rate it as the best camera I've ever regularly used :-) :-)

bye for now

Keith Cooper

FWIW, I just receveid the latest issue of french mag Chasseur d'Image and on the EOS 1DS Mk3 review, they clearly say that a misalignment is present on the tested copy. They also say that this is quite frequent even on high end models.

"FWIW, I just receveid the latest issue of french mag Chasseur d'Image and on the EOS 1DS Mk3 review, they clearly say that a misalignment is present on the tested copy. They also say that this is quite frequent even on high end models."

While it seems quite obvious that people are having alignment problems with the new camera, it's not so obvious that this is a common occurence on high end cameras in general. This is the third generation of full frame 1 series cameras from Canon and I'm pretty sure the MKIII is the only one generating these types of complaints. It's the type of thing where even the smallest degree of inaccuracy is readily apparent to anyone who composes critically, and you just don't hear these complaints about previous or even competing models.

Yes, it's the first time I've come across this problem too, I'm still using my 1DsMkII as a result.

I understand others are suffering from focus issues and one guys 1DsMkIII has suddenly started drawing horizontal lines across his images! I would of thought that getting a viewfinder to line up with a sensor would of been a well practiced art over in Japan - I can't see any reason except poor design and/or poor quality control.

Following the 1DMkIII focus fiasco and the way Canon treated it's loyal customers then... I would of expected a tighter ship this time around.

For me, for the time being, this is a no-sale. I'm going to wait a few months and continue working with my MkII - old faithful!

With all due respect to the Canon Service staff (bless there now overworked cotton socks) I don't want a new camera that's just been taken to bits - it's a recipe for further disaster (as has been demonstrated earlier in this thread).

I do hope that nothing else untoward comes to light with the 1DsMkIII, I would like to buy one....really! I tried....I tried four!!!

Carl,

My camera had the horizontal lines. I don't know if there have been any others, but that's from a defective chip, which is something that's going to happen with electronic devices. That's a much different kind of problem than what appears to be a production line precision problem resulting in misaligned viewfinders.

I do appreciate that. Due to the fact that I have had four of these bodies with the same fault my view is pretty tarnished I suppose. Reflecting on the 1D3 focus problem it all adds up to something a bit sloppy going on at Canon HQ.

With the huge amount of cash being generated from these cameras I just think a little bit more care should be taken with testing etc.

I do agree though, it's the nature of complex electro-mechanical devices to fail...with time.

This is about leveling, and not specifically about teh MKIII--so please skip this off topic post if you need MKIII information.

I have one of those hot shoe bubble levels and it's just as accurate as the bubble level on my Bogen Pro pan tilt head. The problem with those little hotshoe levels is that they have small bubbles and a very small tolerance. So if you are on one of the lines, which is suppose to indicate 'level enough" it will be off a few degrees. I have to be very precise when centering the bubble between the level lines. I thought it was off too and crap until I did some experimenting. It's dead.

In any event, what other options are there for leveling a horizon other than on head bubble levels or on hotshot? Nothing in the viewfinder will accomplish leveling a horizon unless you are dead square facing the horizon, since when you move away from the line, you get one point increasingly further away than the other--in other words, the horizon begins to take on perspective--like shooting a curb at an angle.

Maybe that's why there is a shortage of MKIIIs right now--they stopped shipping them so they don't ship anymore bad one; are testing the ones they do allow out; etc.

I think I will wait now also. I don't care what people say about nitpicking: An 8, 000US camera should not need tape in the viewfinder or workarounds regarding viewfinder line up. Bullshit. That's something you might expect if you bought a 149US Casio point and shoot.

I know I'd be really pissed having to deal with that--and having to send the damn thing in to be torn apart.

I am so glad I listened to myself in another thread when I explained that " Since there is a shortage, maybe the ones on the shelves right now in smaller shops are an older build, and maybe it's a psychological thing with me, but I think I'll wait for the 'new' models."

I will wait now. Not ony that, but I found out something else today on teh 5D, which will be in a new thread.

This one: Zig Align

With the Olympics getting nearer, with the new Nikon offerings and with Sony's announcement about its FF I think this problem comes in a very bad time for Canon.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.

Well more news to hand..

Apparently its only a small batch that have this issue and its easily rectified.

See
Canon Alignment

14th In a comment on DPR, the supposed cause of the viewfinder alignment is revealed:

"The problem is a mask in the viewfinder. It's fitted with four screws, that should be tightened in a certain order to fix it correctly, just like the bolts on the wheels of a car. Apparently, some guy used the wrong order on a certain batch of cameras, and the result is that the mask shifted a little. It explains why only some cameras have this problem, and why the degree is different in each one."
The BJP article I mentioned yesterday is now online

That allows you to align the horizon horizontally in teh view finder?

I suggest you read the material on their website - explains what it does and how it works much better than I could here.

As of today, Canon has replaced the sensor on my camera but they say it's still making the lines that it did with the first one. According to Chris in Irvine, they are having problems getting the camera to "talk" to the diagnostic computers they use and have no real means of diagnosing the problem. So, even though there are no lemon laws for camers in the U.S. I'm going to give them two more weeks to get their act together, making it an entire month, and then push them very hard for a new camera, which, according to Chris, they don't have. I'm a very patient person, but it's not looking great.

Ugh... not a pleasant story. Please let us know how it turns out.

I rang Canon Aust. in Victoria today just out of interest to see if they had any reported [or at least were letting on that they had!] alignment issues.

After speaking to a few different people in the tech repair dept. no-one had any clue - so directed them to a few sites - including the British Journal where Canon are quoted.

Suffice to say the comment was 'we will look into it'.

I would exepct from what I have seen posted by people that there will likely be an announcement of some sort by Canon with affected serial numbers relatively soon. Or, at least there should be.

Here's a link to the BJP article:

http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=701396

I wonder if this repair involves dismantling the camera to any great degree? If it doesn't, that would make me feel a lot more comfortable about a repair rather than a replacement.

D.

I just tested mine, and it's about 1 degree out of alignment. Serial # 604XXX.

Are there any details about what the process is to get it fixed?

"I just tested mine, and it's about 1 degree out of alignment. Serial # 604XXX.

Are there any details about what the process is to get it fixed?"

Like any other warranty repair, take or send it to an authorized Canon service center with a complete description detailing the problem. Include your proof of purchase, although that's not really necessary as all 1DsMK3's are in warranty now. Hopefully you're a CPS member which should help speed up the process.

It talks a lot about prisms and alignment, but I found no simple example of how to use their product to simply line up a horizon horizontally in the view finder.

I know of this product but have not used it as there hasn't been the neeed. It is rather expensive. If you wish to pursue it I would suggest getting in touch with them and ask them specifically how it would be used for the purpose at hand.

I noticed last night that in the UK the best price you can buy a 1DsIII is about £200 more than the best price for a 1DsII.
That's not exactly a vote of confidence for the new product.

That's about 390US. That's a great vote of confidence in marketing. You get all of the newest stuff, and you pay only 5.5% more.

This is completely normal and as to be expected. The real price of new technology keeps decreasing over timen in cameras as well as in many other high tech products. In 2002 the original 1Ds was about 8000 dollars, in 2004 the price of the 1Ds2 was about 8000 dollars and in 2007/8 the price of a 1Ds3 is about 8000 dollars. Canon has been keeping the price of the camera the same in nominal dollars, which means in real terms it is declining by the rate of inflation in the US.

In Australia I can buy a brand new 1DS MKII for 8000 Australian dollars.

A brand new 1DS MKIII is currently 12,000 dollars in Australia - IF you can even find one. If you can... good luck trying to get a discount.

That's disgusting.

I wonder how much you could buy one in Japan by walking in off the shelf? I always wanted to go to Japan anyway.

Well my brother just got back from Japan last week - he saw one 1DS MKIII on the shelf for 98,000 Yen - or about $9,800 Australian.

Not sure what the conversion rate is to the US $.

I jsut got a reply from Amazon that they finally had ONE MKIII in stock from a third party. The price was around 9700US. F-that. You can nearly buy a 22MP medium format camera for that price, and no MKIII is going to take better pictures than a medium format with twice the sensor size of the MKIII.

Nearly 10K for the MKIII with focusing and alignment problems? What are they thinking?

The official price of a Canon 1DsMK3 is 8000 USD in the USA and 8249 CAD in Canada. There is a backlog of orders at any retailer I'm familiar with. Under these conditions there are unscrupulous dealers taking advantage of the situation. Don't blame Canon for this greed. Apart from this alignment issue that has affected some owners this is an excellent piece of equipment. Apart from the 21.1 MP, it has a myriad of significant practical improvements over the previous models that improve efficiency and make it a pleasure to use.

It's good to know the list price is 8K then for sure. Even so, you can get the 22MP medium format for I think under 11K US. I know there are big differences between the cameras, but using the settings available in teh medium format 22MP camera and the same settings on the Canon MKIII, you'll never match the MF back in quality of the recorded image. Portability and speed are another issue.

And for the record in Australia the 1DS MKIII is MSRP $11,995.00

a 22 pixel medium format back from say leaf or Phase is SIGNIFICANTLY MORE.

Not to mention thats just the back - you still need a body.

So I dont think its a fair comparison. In Australia anyway...

1Ds Mk3 Can be had for $7400 at newegg.com. That's where I got mine.

Hi Josh,

Just to set you straight ... the street price for a 1ds3 in aust seems to be 'round $10,999 (that's about $10,000 before tax), I paid a bit less for mine. Once you convert to AUD and add GST we are getting much closer parity with US prices than we ever have with a pro DSLR from Canon ever before.

Canon Australia are taking a hard line with guarantee repairs on imported product. Don't expect to drop your bhphoto.com 1ds3 with an allignment problem out to Burwood for a quick fix.

Finally, Canon in Burwood have known about the allignment problem with my 1ds3 since the 15th January. A technician and the main check in person checked it out when I dropped in there to see what the story with a repair would be. They rekon a 72hour turnaround to get it done when I get a gap in my shooting sched. (I think they do a 48 hour if you're a CPS member)

Anyway, we all have our issues with Canon Australia (their lenses still seem to be 30% above the world going rate) But I think that they've done all they can with local pricing on the 1DSiii, and have been responsive to my v/f allignment issues.

cheers

Jeremy

Yeah I know the current st. price is around 11k. I was refering to the RRP on Canons website - here: 1DS MKIII

I ordered my 1DS MKIII locally back in November 07 - received it about 3 weeks ago now and paid a shade over 11k inc. tax. But that did include an 8 gig sandisk extreme IV ducati edition card - not sure the price of the card.

When I spoke to Canon burwood earlier this week they told me that any repairs to 1 series cameras have to be done in Sydney - but that the viewfinder repair was a quick fix and as a CPS member they could turn it around in approx. 3 days. They mentioned several people reporting the issue - guess you must have been one of them :-)

Your spot on the money with lens prices in Australia from Canon - their website prices are way out of whack with St. prices.

Let us know how you get on when you send yours in for the alignment fix.

As I reported here earlier I had mine adjusted in 24 hours at Canon Sydney. I only live 15 minutes away so was able to drop it in directly one afternoon and collect it the next (although I am a CPS member).

OK I'm ignorant on this then. can you explain this to me? I just watched a quick video at the Phase1 website, and teh "back" snaps into the "body" the photographer was using. This is interesting to me. And are you saying that teh little piece that snaps into the body is 10+K?

Yup.

The back alone is the big ticket item.

You still need the camera body and the lens - and that can run some serious coin as well depending on your choices.

Can someone give an outline how this works and the cost involved for each item, including lens choice? This is interesting to me and perhaps worth saving a year or two to invest in it. Also, some pros and cons of using medium format compared to the MKIII, such as weather sealing, portability, and weight.

Thanks.

I'd say it merits its very own thread .

Indeed.

I got my MKIII back from Canon today. Three weeks and two days later. The "D" board, or digital board was defective, and had to be ordered from Japan. It seems to be working fine now but I haven't had a chance to put it through it's paces. They said that that same board was probably the source of the focusing problems I was having as well. They weren't sure if they were going get it in Fedex yesterday or today and offered Saturday delivery, which, in the end, wasn't needed.

Have you done a rigorous comparison of the same image shot with a range of different settings using both cameras and examined the results, or is this a theoretical proposition?

Nope, I haven't. But I will theorize that if the MKIII was comparable in quality to a MF, then MF would not sell. Not only that, but the size of a MF sensor is twice the size of of the MKIII's. Last, I've read in many different places, including this site in one of MR's essays, that MF kicks APS sensor quality's ass given equal pixel density. I could be mistaken, but if I remember or read correctly, then that is the fact.

But by all means, if you have evidence that the MKIII can stand toe to toe with a MF camera, or even come close to it's performance, please share this information.

Any chance we could keep this thread on topic?

MFDB vs. DSLR has been discussed a million times on this site. It doesn't need to be discussed here.

This thread is for people experiencing problems with what must surely be the most cocked up camera launch in history. (The B&H page for this camera now read: "Important Notice!
This item is temporarily not available. We have no estimated arrival date at this time." Ouch! )

Thanks.

For the record, my camera is still with Canon UK. My agent is trying to negotiate a replacement (which is what happened with the troubled Mkll models) not a repair. Ironically, the demo camera they gave me as cover is also faulty.

In the UK, the British Journal of Photography's (think the NYT of UK photography in terms of influence) review has really made Canon wake up apparently. For those who don't know, they were given a faulty camera to review which was immediately replaced. The resulting review was good, but not brilliant. And, not unexpectedly, wide-angle lens performance came in for criticism. e.g. The TSE 24mm was slammed.

One thing coming out of all this is that photographs are made from pixels AND glass, not just pixels. Nikon must be chuckling quietly to themselves. If they launch a 20Mp+ camera in the next year, one thing we can all be sure of is that the glass will be better. It always is. However, I'm too committed to Canon now.

D.

I thinks Canon screwed up with the MKIII. In any event, what glass does Nikon have that matches the Canon 70-200L IS?

To give an idea of MF Digital back.

US $29,990.00
This is a deal being run right now by Phase One in the U.S.

For this you get the Phase One P45+ (39 MP no microlenses)
The Mamiya P645 body ready to take the back
The Mamiya 80mm Lens (50mm is 35mm Equivalent)
The Mamiya 28mm Lens (Not sure that the 35mm equivalent is)

That is good deal if you can afford it, as the 28mm lens from Mamiya is around 5.5K U.S.

They are also running similar deals on the P25+ and P30+, however in the U.S. I found the deal on the P25+ was very close to the same price as the P45+, around 4K diff, which surprised me. You still get the P645 Mamiya body and the 80mm lens, no 28mm.

Paul Caldwell

I don't think Canon screwed up with the 1DsIII as such - apparently their arrogance is just making them sloppy. The 1DsIII is really a fine camera, once it's up to specs. I had to send mine in twice, first to get the viewfinder parallax alignment fixed, then right back to fix the autofocus which they wacked when they fixed the parallax. The second repair took 4 days including shipping, so they thankfully did do the very best they could.

The camera is now working beautifully, and it would be painful to go back to my trusty 1DsII, now relegated to back-up bench warmer. I tend to do a lot of backlit shots and I have to say the fringing response of this camera in those high-contrast edges through my Zeiss lenses is very pleasant.

I started a thread in the MF forums for this. but thanks for your reply.

OK, thanks for confirming that you are talking from snippets of theory and not from anything you've tested. I've not participated in any discussion about the comparative image quality of a 1DsMk3 versus a medium format camera because I haven't either done the testing or seen any rigorous comparisons. Let me simply conclude here, because all this is off topic, that other factors in addition to those you mention contribute to image quality positively or negatively in a comparative sense, therefore it is important to talk specific models and configurations in making such comparisons. Just to give you a quick flavour of the difficulties - a Mamiya representative at a trade show told me that their 22 MP back would produce noticeably more noise than a Canon 1DsMk3 upwards of 200 ISO. So if I shoot at say 400 or 800 ISO to get a combnation of high enough shutter speed and low aperture for a landscape shot where I am hand-holding the camera and need good depth of field, which camera is likely to deliver a more acceptable result: the Canon or the Mamiya? I'm not answering that question because I haven't field-tested the Mamiya, but I'm just pointing out the dangers of generalizations based on incomplete theoretical information.