this is a little off-topic, and IMHO not funny at all, but i post it nevertheless. I don't post it over there in the FS forum, as I expect noboby will go and buy the camera at this price. Of course I have no connection to this auction, I hope the seller doesn't mind that I post it here :

Rollei Hy6 Camera for sale (ebay nr: 250207286193)

http://cgi.cafr.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?V...type=osi_widget

Did I miss something, but this is the film version of the camera. There's no DB included of course. Is this anywhere near the price we will have to pay if we want a modern MF film camera?

Tom

Jeesh.. you can get a mamiya, full set of lenses and a digital back for roughly that price.

And indeed this is a legitimate dealer's price! Here it is on Kurland Photo's own site:
http://www.kurlandphoto.com/home.php?cat=9

Is this a major early adopter price premium? The comparable 6008 AF kit is under $4,000 on the same page.

The Sinar Hy6 body, with Waist Level Finder and 2.8/80mm AFD, as shown on eBay, has an enduser catalog price of US$ 7'270.- (SBI prices).

Best regards,
Thierry

Wow! Huge difference in price!

However you still have to add the 6x4.5 film-holder + adapter!
Those film-holders you can buy on eBay for $300.
I don't know about the price for the adapter.

If you want to use film just wait for the 6x6 film back that should be released soon.

Yes the Hy6 is certainly up there price wise,however you can get a whole stack of lenses
for a good price.

I paid $12K for 5 Schneiders (40+ 55 PCS+60+80/2+90Apo+180).
All manual and all second hand.
New price would be double or more!

Cheers,
WR

$12K for 5 lenses, USED? Holy crap! I've paid less than $2K for my 4 Mamiya lenses; (35+80+120 macro+150).

The Rollei lenses are out of this world.

I now possess a mere 10 of them, mostly Schneiders with the odd Carl Zeiss thrown in. I don't mind paying a bit more than usual for them since they do such a good job.

I'm very happy that the hy6 is due out soon and the 35mm Flektagon to follow...

Yeah its funny or not funny about the price of these lenses. I've got 5 or 6 of them now. I'd probably not be buying these if my eyes had not been opened by the difference a leica R or Contax Zeiss lens could make over the Canon offerings. Really substantial in some cases - so I stepped up the plate when I went MFDB. I'm not sorry but occasionally I'll be slapped in the face by the price differences. Mamiya 80mm f/1.9 manual lens for $200 or Schneider 80mm f/2.0 for $1500
hmmmmm..... what am I doing????!!!!!

And not only that but the mamiya weighs about 1/3 that of the rollei.... a lot easier to carry.

Mamiya lenses are economical on the used market, but if purchased the new, the prices can still make your head spin. The new 28mm is $4k, the 75-150 zoom is $2500 --- not exactly cheap.

Just keep reminding yourself that the Mamiya's flash sync speed is hopeless. If you don't need that then the difference is harder to justify.

Seems that this is STILL for sale? see 270241842228

Why do some sellers spend a fortune on insertion fees advertising at prices way over market value? It's a mystery.

I have shot with Rollei for many years and know quite well all Zeiss and Schneider lenses as I owned them all. I can tell you one thing that unless you are shooting to document smallest technical details the $300 Rz lenses are drawing much prettier on human models than any Rollei lens I ever had.
Just a fruit for thought before you spend 20K.
http://AndreNapier.com

hi Andre,

I do often agree with your views (and work), but here it seems that our opinions go apart. And I am pretty sure that I am not alone with the opposite opinion.

Best regards,
Thierry

Hi Andre,
I've heard this before and also I respect your opinion. But when you post something like that it makes me really curious as I while I have shot the the rollei 6008, I have not tried the RZ. Could I ask you to point me to some RZ images or share some of your own that you think draw prettier on models?
Thanks,
Eric

rz is good, indeed. but it's really hard to believe that a cheap rz lens is doing better work than such an expensive schneider one.could you please give us some sample pics directly comparing both? I'll be thankful for that.

It all depends on what you shoot.

I haven't used a schneider lens in years, but use Zeiss on the Contax on a weekly basis and the Zeiss are sharp but also have a lot of contrast.

I don't understand the term "draw" but I do know the Zeiss have a more abrupt change in the transitional areas, where the Pentax 6x7 lens I use on my contax is almost like a beauty lens, the tansitional changes are less abrupt.

Digital has change a lot of this mainly because with just a few slider controls you can change the look of a lens quickly, though nothing is as easy as having the right lens for the right subject.

JR

Andre is just stirring the pot!
I've read posts from him where he goes ape over Rollei lenses.

In general Japanese lenses have more contrast,therefore they look sharper.
Their bokeh however is not the best.

German optics Zeiss and Schneider and Rodenstock for that matter are famous.

I can't think of anything worse looking trough an RZ with a cropped 6x4.5 viewfinder.

Cheers,
Willem.

Willem
Go back and look at my previous posts.
Zeiss 110/2.0 - gorgeous and worth having the whole new system.
Schneider 90/4.0 - the sharpest lens ever.
Stirring the pot? I really have no time in my live for that.
Andre

With the new Phase One 645 it will be able to accept both leaf and focal plane shutters. That should allow for higher flash syncing. There should be some sort of release at Photokina.

Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
chris@captureintegration.com
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year

877-217-9870 | National Atlanta / Miami
404-234-5195 | Cell
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For me it's all about glass and I probably would own 400 lenses if I could.

I find the Japanese Glass especially the Canon's to be very specific in contrast, color and look just depending on the lens.

The 85 1.2 at the same aperture looks way different than the 85 1.8 but in all honesty I could weld the 85 1.2 onto the Canon and never take it off.

I'm not that familiar with the Mamiya 645 glass, mainly because I thought previous versions of the camera were really not very good and the feel of the 645 lenses were just cheap, but maybe the new 645 will get better across the board.

Still, for Phase/Mamiya to compete with the 645 they need to offer something in the 105mm 110mm range with a fast aperture.




JR

Hi Chris, in case you didn't notice, that post of mine which you responded to was from January

Hi James,

Don't you shoot at flash sync 125th of a second? Is it hopeless?

The whole 1/125 sync issue is SO overblown, at least for me. I need over 1/2000 in daylight much more often than I need over 1/125 sync. When I have needed more than 1/125 I rent or use the RZ.

As to lenses, I like a creamy lens over a contrasty lens. My favorite lens right now is the Mamiya 80 1.9. Not the newer version, but the old-old version. Its scratched and has some dust inside, but it is really sharp in the center w/o being harsh with creamy OOF. Soft, bright colors. The oposite of a CZ lens. I'll post a pic later. I also like my Rodenstok 210 5.6 Symar for 4x5. That lens is magic.

The RZ lenses have a nice soft rendering while remaining sharp, from wide open to f16. Really really impressive on people. The 110 2.8, the 150 3.5 and 180 are my favs. The 110 gets a little too sharp for peope at around 11, I think.

Sorry Andre,
my quote "stirring the pot" was meant to be taken not that seriously!
Happy shooting!
Willem.

Willem,
No offense taken. I am just recently very exhausted and very edgy. I am opening a large new studio in Chicago and I am dealing with hopeless contractors for the last four months. If your life is peaceful - start construction, you will loose lots of weight.
Andre

Andre,
I got married last year for the first time at 57 !
That had the reverse effect(weight)
Good luck with your studio,I gave mine up in 1993.
Location only for me these days.
Cheers,
Willem.