At the conclusion Michael's Sydney talk the Danish head of Phase One (sorry name forgotten) gave a short spiel. One thing he did specifically mention was that there will be a Phase One body, based on the 645 Mamiya AFD II formally announced in two weeks time. No details on just what is different from the AFD II.

Heard this also from Phase reps at Focus a week ago. Likewise, no detail.
J

Could I respectfully suggest that no more threads are created on this topic until there is an official release?

I'm starting to think this camera won't be anything special. That's why I'm considering the Hy6 (it was my first option a year ago...). I'm feeling this Phase One "keep all secret" thing very uncomfortable too. I'm a PO user and I've been interested in this camera since the first rumors about 6 months ago. None from Phase One (or dealer) ever gave me a least a picture or specs about it. The camera would be announced after the New Year. Not a single word yet. Ans sincerely I'm starting to lose my interest in it and seriously considering a Rollei or Sinar Hy6 even if I'll probably start with film.
Very disappointing from PO.

I agree that the lack of communication is quite annoying, but I've heard that they will supposedly unveil the new camera at Tokyo’s Photo Image Expo the 19-21 this month. So hopefully we will only have to wait another 2 weeks.

Funny Samuel, we have nearly the same kit, and we're both looking at the Hy6 (or in my case the Leaf AFi) ...and I think exactly the same of Phase One.

They (Phase One) don't seem to be in the list:
http://www.photoimagingexpo.com/exhibitors_e.html

However, Mamiya is listed as an exhibitor at the event. Maybe Phase One will be displaying the new camera version and other items at the Mamiya "booth".

Joe Bossuyt

PhaseOne answered that question on the P1 forum.. "Phase One is present at PIE under our japanese distributor which is DNP Photo Marketing (old Konica Minolta)"

The PO body is based on the AFDII? Is this the one that's going to be redesigned with leaf shutter lenses, etc? I don't think it should be based on the AFDII...it should be totally different. We'll see.

In about two weeks or less (march 18th) you wil get information about the new PhaseOne body. It's build on a new 645 body made between PhaseOne/Mamiya. Better and faster autofocus. 5 or 9 nine points.

Later some PhaseOne lenses is made in europe (Schneider/Zeiss?).

That's all I know.

McRepsej

Do you know, it always seems to be 'jam tomorrow' with Phase / Mamiya.

A new camera, little detail released, makes you think that they haven't an RTM candidate yet, and then 'there will be new lenses later' - when later; 1 month or 6 months, a year? No idea if the leaf shutter lenses will be available, but buy our new camera now is the message, and we'll have the lenses sometime.

And lastly, dangling big name lens manufacturers. This all sounds too much like a damage limitation marketing exercise. Get something, anything, out there before punters move away and lose interest.

As I said before, I was less than impressed with the Phase One people at the show last week.


J

Some live to complain. How about giving them a chance, Jon? No point going on like an old scold unless you are an old scold.

Seems a little negative when it's regarding the camera company that has a rock solid product on the market (AFD 2) and has released a new lens to add to an already stellar line up and Phase one who have the most reliable backs around all with software that actually works, now.

I wouldn't be too hard on Phase One, they probably have an agreement with Mamiya to not spread hype because it would totally trash any Mamiya AFDII sales prior to the camera being released. That would not be good for either company especially since they are pushing AFDII packages so aggressively.

If you look at the AFD and AFDII timelines it is about time for an update anyway especially when you consider the acquisition of Mamiya and changes in the MF market over the last couple of years.

We will know by the end of the month and I expect it to be competitive with the other players products. You have to admit the new lens offerings from Mamiya have been pretty impressive IMHO.

The real thing to be talking about is what are the plans for replacing the 39MP high end backs. I haven't heard anything about where that is going and with Canon (and soon Nikon/Sony) in the 20+ MP range are we going to see 48MP backs soon?

I read some where here that this will take any back ie 'open'

With multipoint AF , new leaf lenses and old lenses back to the 50 shift and 24fish fron the ProTL this could be great for me at least

hope fully..

S

This is something I don't understand about the Mamiya 'faithful'. How long did it take for the 28mm to hit the shelves after announcement? And the ZD? Yet people seem to be living in hope that a whole range of leaf shutter lenses will be available in the next few months. That seems excessively optimistic to me.

i can't argue with you regarding the zd release, but then we should recognize that the ownership of the company was in the process of transition ...the 28mm lens was officially announced on june 1,2007 along with the 75-150 zoom. the zoom was available three weeks later, and the 28mm lens became available in july of 07.
since i have not seen anything from mamiya indicating they are producing leaf shutter lenses, i do agree with you that the belief that they will become available in the nxt few months is optimistic---to say the least.

I don't think the "Mamiya Faithful" need to have all of the pieces in place and available for order in the next few months. Rather, having a clear roadmap, and an understanding that these things are being, and will be, rolled out, will be seen as a big step in and of itself. The new 75-150 and 28 mm lenses show Mamiya's system is not stagnant. With the appearance of the new body, that will further show that Mamiya is moving forward. Leaf lenses - well, we'll see. Personally, I think they'll just be the Hassy CF lenses with an adapter (but hopefully I'm wrong).

Regards,
Mort54

Why not simply wait for the 19th of March and the start of the PIE exhibition in Tokyo, JP?
I guess that is not that long to know and avoids a round of speculations.

Thierry

I think people get excited about the possiblites of a new medium format camera and even though at this point everyone speculates, I am sure the manufacturer's follow the different forums to get some idea of what people expect, so unless these threads turn into some kind of brand war bias, or sales presentation, I think the speculation is good and we all know that competition is healthy.

Given this, if Mamiya is listening I suggest they use this opportunity of introducing the 645 camera to make some adjustments and changes in the RZ, like a higher powered magnifier to make focusing and viewing of the RZ frame easier and if they could engineer the blades that would crop to a 645 (1.1 or 1.3 format) I'm sure this would bring a lot of old lenses off of the shelves.

So many professionals have some type of RZ equipment and since the 645 back goes straight to the RZII digital body it could be very benificial to ex-mamiya users.


JR

There is a thread on the Oficcial PhaseOne forum about this:

http://forum.phaseone.com/viewtopic.php?t=4616

The only thing that has been confirmed is:

"As announced the camera will have Mamiya 645AFD interface so any digital back with this interface (including all competitors system) can be used on the new Phase One camera and this includes Mamiya film holders."

The rep did promise all specs will be released after the show at the end of this month.

I rarely complain... I've been waiting a long time for the AFD2 to be replaced with something that has autofocus and higher sync speeds.

Yes, you're quite right, software that actually works (very slowly) and assuming you don't want to work tethered. How long has that been in the pipeline?

Deleted.

MacPro twin Zeon Duocore 3.0GHz. CO4 slow. I find (and I know it's not a direct comparison, I know), that Aperture or Lightroom are faster. CO4 seems to tak an age to load pics. Just annoying.

Cheers
J

Deleted.

Er John, you do realise that you can work tethered with capture one (at least with most cameras) and that the AFD 2 has got AF, thats what the AF part of the name is about.

Yes, you can work tethered with 378, not 4.

As regards the AF issue, I think you missed my wry humour. Yes, the AFD2 has autofocus, if only it would work better. (I tried a Leaf AFi last week, and there's a working autofocus!)


Oh, and incidentally, I'll be absolutely delighted if Phase / Mamiya can bring out a great camera in a few weeks, and perhaps be early in the queue to get one.

Cheers
Jon

It was my first impression, but after I run more informal tests I found out it was not the case. It may be system related.

I didn't realise the 4 doesn't work tethered, 3.7.8 seems great though, saying that, I only use it to tether, I use Lightroom to develop files which is in my not humble position (why lie) far superior. With regards to the AF, I actually prefer the Mamiya's AF to the canon 1ds mark 2's, it's a little slow but seems to hunt less and it works incredibly well in really low light.

I just made a test and C1 4.14 was about 20 seconds (for a 63.7MB P 25 file) and
C1 DB 3.7.8 was about 25 seconds. C1 4 seamed a bit faster.

... then again, Potoshop CS3 did it in about 8 seconds, so there is space for C14 PRO to improve, after all this is only the "light" version of C14. Other programs have cached up with Phase One, but I would not say that they have a software problem. I feel at home with and generally process my work on the field with an old laptop. The tethered connection is extremely reliable and "can do" attitude, I use custom made ICC and the ones that came with Phase like "Easy gray" that works particularly well with installation shots when the white gallery walls have to look white. The profile was made for table top photographers that use a white seamless background.

The only thing missing for my type of work is lens correction and perspective control tools. (something like: edit>transform>skew )

On the down side is the idea that raw conversion instructions on C1 3 are nos compatible with C1 4 which means that you would have to do all the editing work when re-processing images.

If Phase One is consistent the new camera should be:

* Weather resistant and robust (something that the Hy6 and Leaf backs are not)
After all Phase backs can be completely frozen w/out stopping to work.
* Minimalistic interface to make things robust and simple to use. Mamiya has similar tendency.
* Low energy requirements. No fans, no large displays.
* Good, fast, reliable software (something that Mamiya has not)

If you package that with a good support and upgrade policy and competitive pricing they may interest a few photographers.

If I was them I would produce a Phase One ZD model, but that concept -- that failed not because it was a bad idea but because of what Phase One knows how to do well: firmware and the rest -- may be irreparably jinxed like Apple's Newton.

C1 V4.01 on Mac 3.0 Quad with 8 GB RAM; one P25 RAW to 16-bit TIFF takes 3 or 4 seconds. It goes much quicker than 3.7.7 which was around 20 seconds. I'm running 10.4.11.

Leonardo,
Thanks for putting some figures on that. I agree with your observations about the new camera.

How have you found profiling in Lightroom?

(it may sound trivial, but I like lightroom overall, but particularly the spot healing function...there's always one piece of dust I missed when doing a batch of shots! Mind you, the big air filter / purifier improved the situation a lot)

Cheers
Jon

I have an admission though, never crossed my mind initially. I'm running Vista on mine! Perhaps CO4 ain't as well optimised in Windows. Also, must get more memory; I've only got 2 in at the moment.

(...and when you've stopped laughing , and before you ask, I tried MacOSX for 4 months, and didn't like it (as much as windows); tried Leopard... same thing. Now, I used X windows on Unix, long before any of the current OS's (about 15 years ago) so please don't accuse me of being an irrational Windows fanboy. I think both are great, just that OSX seems somehow, ...clunky, for want of a better word. Just my opinion.

Anyway, sorry, I'm not trying to divert the thread, so perhaps I should have deleted the last paragraph )

Thanks for all the other considered opinions.
J

Maybe your camera is broken ? I have tested my Mamiya against a Canon 1Ds3 recently, under fairly real fashion conditions modeling lights for focus), and a still life, the Mamiya performed at least as well as the Canon. In fact the reason why I went for Mamiya is that in all the tests I did the focus was accurate. Not the fastest but every time at exactly the right spot.

Edmund

I actually had mine in for service for a couple of reasons, the AF being one of them. Turned out it was 'fine' ..mmm.

To be perfectly honest, my only comparison is with a 5D and L glass, so perhaps that's unfair.

Thanks
J

Jon - for the auto focus - do you have the AFDII set to "spot" or to "wide". Wide employees 3 AF sensors and focuses on whatever in that zone. The spot focus is just center AF point - that'll tighten up focus considerably. As Edmund said, the AFDII focus is quite accurate. Slow at times, but it gets there.

I agree completely about the accuracy - didn't make it clear in previous posts, and it's the time it takes hunting that causes me a problem. Certainly it's far faster in area focus rather than spot, and therefore that's what I use.

In a way I'm glad to see the strength of feeling for the AFD2 here, and especially since it's from people who produce excellent work, from other examples I've seen of it.

I really appreciate all the help you guys (and girls??) have given me, not just when I posed this issue, but on everything else as well. It's such a nice forum to be part of, compared with many others I have seen.

Thanks
J

You are welcome. I think that we have a tendency to defend the gear we use as if it had become "our motherland", but there is always somthing --or a lot-- to envy from the system next doors. In my case I may seam to be often criticizing Thierry's Hy6 and defending Phase-miya, but I saw a video of a rotating back on a Hy6 and I have to admit that it is an attractive feature (I used to love that on my RZII) --don't know if I it justify the 66 format, but don't want to re-litigate that--. And the other detail of having the winder motor on the film magazine. That is very smart and a way to move in to the digital future.

I could go further and criticize my "team": Phase One needs to come with a good C1 4 Pro "yesterday". Mamiya has to come up with gourmet optics like a 80mm f/1.4 or a 120mm f1.4 for photographers that need a bit more than average bouquet and flavor in their images.

Love and let love friends

Might not be the right forum to post but thought I throw it out there anyways..:+}
Does anybody know if you can have the Mamiya AFDII beep when in focus?
Can you focus a manually and have it show the green light when you are in focus with manual focus?
Thanks for any info..:+}
Snook

I don't know if it will beep, but I use it all the time with AF in OFF and focus with the hand following the two arrows and green dot. It is very accurate and energy efficient much better than with no green light, but some times, when I am pointing to a texture less object I have to focus with my old eyes.

Leonardo,

I won't ever go as far as pretending that it is "mine"!



Best regards,
Thierry

Has anybody seen this??? A string of announcements have appeared on the Mamiya Japan website on the same day:

1. Mamiya RB67 adapter for the ZD back.
2. Mamiya M645 Pro TL200 camera (??? Did I get this right?)
and...
[b]3. Mamiya 645 AFDIII / Phase One 645 AF camera! (Edited:) it looks like just an announcement stating many of the few "facts" that have been discussed here, that it will be revealed at the PIE. There is something in the beginning about "world wide camera sales carrying through a network release." Anybody read Japanese?
http://www.mamiya.co.jp/news_20080310_a.html

I don't have any Mamiya gear at all, and never did, but still can't help but feel excited about this.

Thx for the update. I'm wondering what is really different about the AFD3 to the AFD2.

You can use Google to translate:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=e...%3Doff%26sa%3DG

Bill

There's something about C1 4.1 supporting MEF files (nice for ZD owners), and a mention of lens corrections (in the software). I guess CA & fall-off correction.

So, Pentacon is the European lens manufacturer.
As I recall, their 60mm Curtagon and 150mm Tele-Xenar for the Exacta 66 were sought after (still?)

...which is owned by Schneider.

What is not clear from that webpage is whether there is merely a new adapter to allow use of Pentacon lenses (as with Hasselblad V), or will there be a new line of lenses?

If these lenses are new, then why use the Pentacon name and not Schneider? Will these not be 'premium' lenses?

del.

I just answered that in the last post. Schneider.