The new Mamiya - Phase One is announced. It can be used with Mamiya ZD backs, Phase one P+, and may be with other backs (?).

The new body accepts Mamiya 645 AF and 645 manual, Hasselblad V and Pentacon six/Kiev 6x6 lenses.

A new Capture One 4.1 Program (also for Mamiya ZD) converts RAW with lenses corrections habylities.

[URL=http://www.dslrmagazine.com/profesional/camaras-para-formato-medio/mamiya-phase-one-2.html]

PdF

Awaiting info on build-quality, robustness, dedicated AF button, reduced shutter release lag, sync speed, etc.

The official announcement isn't tell Wednesday the 19th, but the info in that report is correct. They just jumped the gun.

I have an article on the subject coming on Wednesday with additional details.

Michael

P+ Only of the P series..
why would that be..
Hope there is a typo..
IF the P30 does not work, which I do not see why it would not.. I'll be quite upset!!
Snook
The only thing I care about is if they have leaf shutter lens or Faster sync in the body!!

P series will be compatible too of course...

V-series?! This is intriguing. Can't wait to hear more.

Great news, Michael! Can't wait!
Did you have a chance to test an actual camera? I guess we'll find out soon enough...

You can already use all of those lenses on the current 645AFD bodies with adapters for Hassy V, or whatever lens you want to use.

And I also have converted ZD files in C1 4 already. Not to mention Leaf files, Hasselblad files, etc....

you've been able to get C1 v4 to convert Leaf Aptus files? (.mos)? do you need to do anything special?
jim

Yes, it does require some work that most people would rather not do, but...

Step 1: Convert to DNG (whether it's Leaf/ZD/Hasselblad)
Step 2: Open the DNG in a Hex editor (like this free one: http://www.softcircuits.com/cygnus ) and you'll see in the editor it will say at the top, for example "LEAF Aptus 22 firmware version blahblah"....

Just replace "LEAF" with "LLLL" and C1 will open it. Replace "Hasselblad" with "HHHHHHHHHH" for Hassy files, and Mamiya with "MMMMMM" for the ZD, etc.

One of the strongest argument for using camera specific software instead of Adobe is the less than optimal color reproduction by the latter.

When going the above described route, the color conversion (from the camera's address space in sRGB or whatever) will occur the way Adobe's defined it, practically identical to the colors ACR's converts to. What is the point to go with C1 at all?

No point really. If you like the way C1 resolves detail, along with its sharpening tools, then go right ahead. Actually, you don't have to use the Adobe color profile.

I recommend Leaf Capture for Leaf files over both C1 and Adobe ACR/Lightroom.

That's really cool the option exists. The Hex Editor is PC only, is there a way to do this if on a Mac? The thing I like most about C1 has always been how it deals with noise, a much more fine "grain" than other apps. I would love to see my Aptus files in C1.

Yes, just google "hex editor for mac". You should be able to find one quite easily.

Will this camera take an Aptus back as well?

Dave

Am I the only one thinking that there's nothing really new about this camera? The Pentacon adapter is the only news and sounds like a half-baked solution (lenses are all 10+ years old, no autofocus, is there any service still available? etc)



Yes, the DB mount is not new.

Foto-Z Is not that there is nothing new, the camera has not come out yet, we only have some details/ we don't know who the "European" lens maker will be, and I don't think it is Pentacon with an adapter an MF lenses do you? we don't know about the leaf lenses either.

We do know that the Hy6 traded wide angles for a rotating back so that is nothing new in the positive direction, and the H system is a closed architecture nothing positive as well.

The 645 AF/AFD is already much better than the other available systems that only a small increment will make it even more so ... but then again, this is only one more bias opinion and speculation while we wait for the information

Actually a rotating back makes no difference to the size of the image circle, or difficulty in making wide angle lenses. It is the decision to release lenses which still cover 6x6 which is making the wide angle difficult. I can only assume that larger sensors are coming and they are planning ahead.



Well that is very much a matter of opinion

Just wait until they announce all available colors!

"H system is a closed architecture nothing positive"?

On the contrary, there many positive aspects to the "closed system architecture". More critical focus due to focus adapation and known placement of the sensor in relation to the camera, automatic correction of lens distortion, apochromatic aberrations, and vignetting, etc. My customers find these aspects extremely positive.

There is much positive news on the Hy6 as well. It accepts digitally adjusted Schneider AF lenses, employs a fast and responsive AF system, provides ergonomically advanced camera controls, and will continue to benefit from digital/camera integration into the future.

While I think the Mamiya AFD is a fine camera - I am a Mamiya reseller, and the Aptus 65 with free Mamiya AFDII is a great value right now - let's be honest, it's always been the "value" choice, not the preferred solution. While H2 cameras were in production, they outsold Mamiya cameras by more than 3 to 1 in the US, despite the higher price.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php

According to the "pre-released" info on the PhaseOne forum (before this leak), the camera is the same back mount as the current 645 AFD II...so yes. When I bought my P20+ back in the 645 mount, they guaranteed me that the back would "just work" on the new camera.

No. We really need more specs, because if this is all it is, then it's nothing new. The "European" lenses are actually old lenses that can be used with an adapter, much like Canon users use Leica, Contax/Zeiss, Hasselblad, Olympus, Pentax, and more with an adapter on their bodies.

I never thought a camera company would encourage the use of other branded lenses with an adapter on their own camera body.

Need more info...

Yeah, 'cos if it's nothing new, it's going to be huge disappointment. So, was the talk about leaf shutter lenses just 'smoke and mirrors' - I hope not!
J

I'm beginning to this this was an unfounded rumour. In order for this camera to be able to use leaf shutter lenses, it would be necessary for the focal plane shutter to be able to be locked open, and the flash sync taken from the leaf shutter, as well as a modification to the lens mount to facilitate the leaf shutter control. Why would these new features be missing from the release? Perhaps the Pentacon lenses are the rumoured 'european' lenses and that's all the news. I could be wrong but I just don't see Mamiya pulling off a whole new set of lenses. The existing lenses from european manufacturers are 6x6 so it would not be a simple matter of taking existing designs and attaching different mounts.

Wednesday is not too far away for all to be revealed.

I agree, my thinking has been "Why would they be re-releasing old lens designs as D models and introducing new quite expensive designs such as the 28mm, only to replace them shortly after with a line of leaf shutter lenses?"

But hey who knows! It will be interesting to find out at least

"It is the decision to release lenses which still cover 6x6 which is making the wide angle difficult."

There are two things regarding the decision to use 6x6 lenses. One is the image circle. As an example we can see the difference in FX and DX lenses from Nikon.

FX lenses operating on DX sensors are bigger, more expensive and less efficient than similar FX on FX sensor. Hy6 decided to go "FX" (66) when sensors are DX (645) and other systems are DX-DX (645-645)

Fine, they can do two things a) wait to hit the lottery with FX (66) sensor and/or make, say, a 28mm DX -- note that I use DX and FX just so that I can get understood --

But ther is when the second factor will apply, that is: the larger distance from "film" plane to placement lens element that has to clear the movement of the mirror.

In other words, a Hy6 28 has to be more retro focus than the equivalent 645 equivalent --even it it is a reduced image circle or DX--

If you see the size and cost of the two reflex 28mm lenses in production you can tell how difficult it already is (for 645) to formulate optics that perform at the higher than film expected standards of 49 mp backs.

If you say "Actually a rotating back makes no difference to the size of the image circle" then it means that having a FX format is even more of a gamble -- because the designers could have gone 645 AND produce a rotating back -- since there is no sign in the horizon of Kodak or Dalsa sensor appearing any time soon on 6x6 size.

But suppose they one is developed, Sinar has to make a new back for the larger sensor. You have to take in to consideration that a 6x6 sensor will not replace 6x4.5 format, it would have to fight against it to get adopters, which brings us to the square format. I personally like it, but it is not the "standard" proportion but more like a station wagon, or hatchback -in car analogy-

So, the Hy6 will steel missing wide angle lenses --unless you upgrade to the new square format-- The high cost of producing the larger sensor back will have to be absorbed by a very small potential user base and we don't even know if existing lenses will be good for a full frame sensor since none exist today to run tests.

Regarding Steves comment, I think he is correct in considering Mamiya the value choice, but remember that not so long ago in the film era Hasselblad was the king of medium format until the RZ came and became the choice of a large number of the top photographers not only as the value work horse but also as a better camera because of the rotating back, bellows focusing, leaf lenses and size and proportion of the 6x7 format. Phase One used to have the lion share of the digital backs, so the two together should not be dismissed before the race has even started... i think

Very interesting, I hadn't thought about this, but its the depth of the sensor that dictates flange to focal distance. Looking at the size difference between M645 and an RZ gives some indication of the problem.

Doesn't the larger size of the AFi help though? In terms of exit pupil size and so on. I wonder if there is a tradeoff between size of lens and the flange-focal distance so that things are not as bad for physically larger cameras as you think.

(I still need a 5x4 sensor if anyone is listening by the way - grin)

I still disagree with you here, focus adaptation, known placement of the sensor, automatic lens correction, CA, vignetting can all be done with an open architecture system as well.

It doesn't need to be closed for that, the CF line is an excellent proof of that.

Yes, I do agree all these things are very nice to have and I am very glad that I can use them, at least most of them with my CF. I hope to be able to use even a bit more functionality with my CF in the near future.

A closed architecture is there because of financial reasons mostly which in itself might not be a bad reason but I dislike it when it is still being sold as if it delivers a better system directly. It might give a better system indirectly because it will leave the company in a better financial state in which it has more financial room to deliver better products.

Advanced focus adaption (like Ultra Focus II) cannot be accomplished with a non-integrated system - at least not the way they're doing it, which is really what matters. The CF can take advantage of DAC level I, II & III, and many other H3D-type of features. But there are several it doesn't take advantage of and potentially some which haven't yet been implemented.

I agree, the cost savings certainly have to be a benefit - some of that has been passed onto consumers, perhaps some of that also enables the purchase of reasonable LCD displays like the 3" display on the H3DII.

I still maintain that getting the camera body involved with the digital magazine will ultimately yield ease of development for further improvements in the product compared to a non-integrated developmental approach - Canon and Nikon have certainly demonstrated this.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php

with pie opening in a few hours, whats the best site(most updated) to get info on the new phase/mamiya? i hope its a cool camera.

paul

Michael said he would post an article on Wednesday (I presume Wed morning), so I think Luminous Landscape's What's New page is probably the best place. From what he's said, it seems he has insider knowledge of this.

We have a dealer web conference at 7:00pm tonight. As soon as we get the info it will be up on our website @ www.captureintegration.com

Lance Schad
Capture Integration - Miami/Atlanta
305-394-3196 cell | 305-534-5702 office
Capture Integration , Phase One Dealer of the Year
lance@captureintegration.com
Lance

You're my hero :-) I assume that's 7 pm eastern time?

Yes

Lance

You guys are so inconsiderate. You expect me to sit up to Midnight GMT????


(HaHa!)

Jon

The announcement is embargoed until 10 JST Wednesday, which is 9pm EDT Tuesday, which is when my write-up will be placed online. In other words, this evening.

Michael

-edited-

Well the info is up on http://www.phaseone.com and also on our website @ http://www.captureintegratrion.com
New Phase One Body

* Improved shutter speed range 1/4000th - 60 minutes
* New AF motor with 3 AF points
* New digital board
* Improved dial, shutter, grip ergonomics, AF lever (for AF mode selection)
* Ready for 120 frames per minute
* Ready for leaf shutters, expected 2008
* Value Added Warranty: 3 year or 300,000 actuations (body and lens)
* Classic Warranty: 1 year or 100,000 actuations (body and lens)

New 80mm F2.8 AF lens

* Extremely low chromatic aberration
* Steel barrel
* New ergonomic design

New Value Added Case

* Fits a laptop
* Has roller wheels and handle
* Room for body and two lenses


Lance Schad
Capture Integration - Miami/Atlanta
305-394-3196 cell | 305-534-5701 office
Capture Integration , Phase One Dealer of the Year
lance@captureintegration.com

The new 80mm looks like it has an improvement - the Auto/Manual push/pull.
Maybe the body AF is a bit better ?
I guess when the leaf-shutter lenses arrive the studio crowd will be markedly happier.

Edmund

* Ready for 120 frames per second


Wow!
That is one fast camera!

Any word on prices and when I will be getting mine in the mail.

JP

im really dissapointed.
its about time they replaced the crappy plastic std lens (now just the 45 and 55 to go).
but its just an afd2 with a few tweaks. it does trigger the leaf shutter of the v series lenses, so the adaptor isnt new news at all.

the afd2 didnt come close (imho) to the build quaility of either the h1/2 or hy6/afi, and the phase hasnt really improved on it.

paul

All I'd want is less shutter lag, faster AF and a fast eg. F2 lens - the rest of the Mamiya is actually fairly ok, the finder is good enough for MF, nothing drives me crazy and apart from some recurring metering errors there are few surprises when using it.

When I got the thing I was doubtful, but after seeing batteries last a month at a time, focus better than a Canon, and a seriously sharp standard lens, I am starting to wonder whether the advantages of the Hassy aren't just perceived rather than real.

Edmund

I agree faster AF and sharper lenses would make it pretty much perfect for me

I'm not complaining until I see the price.

I think it should be 4-5 grand with the lens tops.

Any mention of the viewfinder?

this is a good link - http://viewer.zmags.com/showmag.php?mid=dwrwf

I think the service plan on the camera is a plus. 3 years or 300,000 shutter actuations.
I just don't want to have to go through my dealer to get the camera serviced. I want to be able to go on the website and set up a service ticket to send it in myself.

JP

Maybe Phase will slap a decent BIG screen on their backs, and liveview ? That's an improvement to our photo lives !

Edmund

although im dissapointed...
i am impressed by the extra focus points, i wonder how far apart they are?

and the grip seems to have been improved - looking at the top shots.

paul