Interesting to see that Leaf are trying to spoil the Phase-Mamiya party by making their offer of a 'free' AFDII camera now (with 'free upgrade' later).

Looks more like nervousness than generosity to me, especially as they have their own party going on with their own AFi/ Hy6.

No, I want BOTH toys Daddy!

Of course just how 'free' that camera is will depend on what price you pay for the back, and whether that was the back you really wanted in the first place...

Interesting how someone can just throw some words out there, and - with the help of the interenet - suddenly Leaf is "nervous" and "desperate" because of this new Mamiya camera that Phase is partnering with.

Leaf has been offering a free Mamiya 645AFD camera with purchase of any Aptus digital back for several quarters now, and has traditionally offered strong Mamiya-based incentives which goes back years.

I don't have any confirmation yet of the details to "upgrade to AFD III", but if they have indicated the free upgrade to the AFD III, it seems to me more of a public service announcement to their customers who have received the free AFD II or who plan to take advantage of the offer.

While Leaf has a "party" going on with the AFi, they are very much still committed to offering solutions for nearly every medium format platform available, and this includes Mamiya. Leaf Aptus backs with Mamiya cameras are a big seller for me, and I expect that to continue, regardless of the success of the AFi.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php

mmm, and interesting how Leaf dealers can just 'throw' some sales pitches into this forum regularly too... with the help of the internet... isn't it Steve?

my point was the timing of the free upgrade to AFDIII offer - withing 24hrs of it Phase/Mamiya camera being announced. of course its just a coincidence. must be. absolutely.

Yes, Leaf have offered Mamiya back fitting for a good while, but they clearly don't want it to appear that Phase have privileged alignment with the Mamiya platform, so are trying to get a 'special offer' out there to have a slice of that pie too. simple.

... and even if, what should be the problem if this is doable for Leaf? Is that a sin, being willing to offer products and sell them?

Thierry

If there's any sales pitching that I'm "throwing", it is almost always, if not always in the context of a response for factual information. I don't recall ever panting "Hey you guys, you should buy this, what a great deal!". I simply put the information out there, usually to correct misinformation, to clarify vagueness, or to respond to a request for the information. If that's sales pitching, so be it.

In contrast, what is factual about your claim of Leaf "nervousness" and "desperateness"? Nothing, unless you're sitting at a table with Leaf executives and you know this first hand.

The fact is, a new Mamiya camera was announced yesterday. Leaf has (and has had off and on for years and years) a current promotion for a free AFD II and now is addressing customer concerns over upgrades to AFD III. The prmotions for free AFD II have been ongoing Narikin, do you understand? Ongoing, for years. The only thing that has changed since the Mamiya announcement is that Leaf has tried to address users who have taken or wish to take advantage of the promotion, and provide information to them about an AFD III upgrade.

Certainly Leaf is aware of Phase One's dalliance with Mamiya and I am sure for some time has been considering any kind of competitive strategic repsonse they may (or may not) make. If you think this constitutes "nervousness" and "desperation", you go right ahead.

With anything I ever write on the internet, I make a very concerted effort to be factual or at least provide information that I think or know to be true. I am getting a little fed up with the speculative, unsubstantiated adjectives, like the ones you're providing here.

We live in a world where the quality of information has suffered tremendously. There is an abundance of information, and that'a great thing. Easy to attain, very good. But the quality of information sucks, and can have unjustified consequences for individuals and organizations. Responsibility has been thrown out the window. And I don't like that.

I"m sorry if I'm coming across a little bent out of shape, perhaps I need my morning coffee.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php

I've received a free 645 body with 80mm lens with both Leaf backs I've purchased going back to 2004. This isn't a new thing.

Steve,
As far as I'm concerned, you're right on the money.
I wish I could articulate what I'm feeling as well as you and James.

Leaf is offering this since who knows how long. The fact that they immediately address customer concerns with regards to the upgrade to the AFDIII is something that I applaud.

Fast and swift response, you know what is happening. This is good for both Leaf as well as people planning on using a Leaf with AFD. Naturally Leaf doesn't want people holding off buying one of their backs because they don't know whether they will be getting an AFDII or III. Can you blame them? They are trying to make a living as we all do.

I wish every MFDB manufacturer was this considerate everytime. We complain when they aren't and now we start complaining and being suspicious when they are?

Accusing Steve of sales pitches I find uncalled for. He has been helping out everywhere he can without hidden agenda. Sure, he wants to sell but he is willing to help without you immediately having to buy something from him. I wish there were more dealers like that (especially in Europe).

We all know how Steve is contributing here to a true and clear INFORMATION, but sometimes it needs to be re-stated: I do agree with your comment 100%.

Thierry

and if Phase and Mam didn't wanted such offer the new camera wouldn't have been "open platform"...

jeez Steve, yes - get a coffee please!

your words are as subtly pejorative as any - Phase's "dalliance" with Mamiya? - is that exactly an unbiased and neutral term? no its a carefully chosen word to snipe at a strategic alliance that may bode ill for Leaf.

still, pot here appreciates kettles point...

yes I don't mind dealers posting here, it can be helpful, but you do have a particular axe to grind, and are a little too quick to attack my post which amounted to little more than a does of smiling healthy skepticism. and there's nothing wrong with that in this over-hyped marketplace.

Your post title is just a joke.

Leaf has had promos with Mamiya going back to the C-Most back, 5-6 years.

Phase and Mamiya did work together to create the AFDIII, but it's still a Mamiya camera. So how would that change anything that Leaf has been doing with Mamiya for many years.

Are we out of reasonable topics and conversation on this board. Andre Napier was right in spending time away from this board. This place can be corrosive to common sense.

Yep,

I got a bundled AFD II with my Aptus 75 when I got it about 18 months ago, and it was a great deal. As MF SLR's are not my main camera it was really handy to get one.

Leaf and all the MF back manufacturers with open products can profit from Mamiya providing a relatively affordable entry point into a camera platform. Actually it helps their market.

At the right time I'd probably be interested in the AFi, but it might have been prohibitively expensive for me to get into it at the outset as well as getting my LF platform sorted out.

Since when in business was it somehow wrong for companies to compete?

It think Leaf has had some kind of promotion with Mamiya forever and the MAC group that distributes Leaf also distributes Mamiya so a lot of this relationship is natural.

Leaf is also excellent at marketing their product and has been agressive in their efforts from day one.

I see nothing but good coming from these type of incentives and hope it puts some pressure on all medium format to respond by putting a sharp pencil to all thier prices.

Don't think for a minute that if medium format prices could some how get more competiitive with dslrs, that you wouldn't see a much larger user base and a larger market makes it better for all of us. There would be more lenses, accessories and maybe even more cameras.

Yesterday I was in two traditional camera stores that sell professional equipment and neither sold any form of medium format back and the medium format cameras they sold were either used, or close out items that were going for 1/2 their original price.

I know absoutley nothing about how much it costs to make and market a digital back and if the profit margins are high or low, but I do know that if there were $7,000 medium format backs, vs. 20, to 30 thousand dollar digital backs, those two camera stores I walked into yesterday would probably be full of Pentaxs, Mamiyas, Contaxs, and the dozen of lenses each system "use" to offer.

If there had even been $10,000 digital backs with a decent lcd, like the P21 when the 1ds was released I'll bet there would have been a lot less Canons sold.

I adopted digtial capture early so I'm not surprised that it has changed the way professionals and serious amateurs work, but I am surprised at how long it has taken the traditional camera companies to respond.

I think we all should be clear that regardless of the brand we currently use, we want all the digital back makers to continue to grow and thrive, or the next camera store you walk into won't have anything but a Canon or Nikon.

I don't want to see any banner ads on this forum, but I would love to see more dealer and manufacturer particpation. I don't think Hasselblad or Phase knows what they are missing by not stepping in and putting their message out and receiving the constructive as well as the critical responses.


JR


P.S.

As far as this board becoming negative or bad because a few posts are agressive, that just comes with the territory and regardless of what anyone thinks those controversial threads get the highest number of viewers and responses and usually offer the most unique thought.

I know Steve, he's a smart, honest and decent man and sells his product with intelligence, but he's also and adult and knows that if he puts it out there for gain, he's going to take some hits.

Let's butch up and be realistic that if all we do is live, work and talk like a press release life would be very boring and not very honest and without even misplaced raw honesty and passion the conversations just become worthless to discussion.

Once again, I'm glad that there is varied participation here, but if you are going to put a company name or logo at the end of your posts then don't get your feelings hurt if someone says something you don't like.

There is a lot of misplaced hype in the digital world and throwing a press release or an ad on a public forum get's noticed and drawn out pretty quickly.

Still, I've been meaning to get an answer to something from the RG days, that never was brought to conclusiion.

What camera would Salgado use?

Well Nairkin....

You certainly look stupid now don't you?
Maybe in future, if you don't have anything factual or useful to say, you will keep your thoughts to yourself.

Cheerio!!

A

Hasselblad is doing the same thing. I got an email yesterday offering me special prices if I purchase a HDIII or any CF back before March 31.


http://www.hasselblad.com/promotions/h3dii-bundle.aspx




- Edited -

I've said it before and I'll say it again - why no CMOS MFDB? Seems as if it could really keep costs down and allow for more flexibility (long exposures, wider ISO range). It seems that the MFDB world is going to be under increasing pressure over the next few years and cost is a big factor in that.

oh yes Ayndwer,

that is such a wonderful contribution you have made there, and I do feel oh so silly for pointing out that one might view Leaf's press release of a free Mamiya AFDIII offer 24hrs after Phase and Mamiya announce their first camera collaboration ever... with a mild dose of skepticism. Yes some kind of offer existed before, duh! but this had such a "DONT FORGET ABOUT US!" feel to it. jeez - give Phase/Mamiya a moment in the sun couldn't you?

do grow up chappies, as James says: "Let's butch up and be realistic that if all we do is live, work and talk like a press release life would be very boring and not very honest ..."

I guess what lays behind this surprising response, is some people cant take any critique of 'their' brand of digiback - even if its just a small dig at a press release's timing. Its just the same if you critique the tiniest aspect of Apple's business practice... flame on!

beware reality/ sense of humor wormhole hereabouts...

I'm with Andrew on this one!

Leaf have now got two great (and different) bodies to hang their back on. Why would they be nervous.

Let's avoid this sort of dpreview talk.
I never understood attributing emotions to companies. Nervousness? Is this the sports commentary channel?

There you go again....
Tapping away at that keyboard without thinking!

Damn... I would hate to have you running my company!
"Give the competition a moment in the Sun"..? What the hell for?

The problem is that your initial post seemed like a pointless attack at Leaf, for engaging in
normal and good business activity.
A useless post, which just looked like you wished to have a go at Leaf for no reason at all.
There are plenty of genuine comments about Leaf, their software and cameras that would be
fair to criticize, or request improvements to... without resorting to a bashing for no reason.

A

And when we have done, narikin, will we have any clearer idea as what on earth you're banging on about aside from a seemingly pointless and rather silly rant?

Hi
The MAC group are the agents for Leaf, Mamiya, Profoto, Pocket Wizzard, Tenba and a few others. They are the best group I have ever encountered in how they support photographers & have excellent products. It comes as no surprise to me about this announcement. After all this is a Mamiya AFD III body with a Phase name on it. Sure I think Phase has had a lot of input into Mamiya in the past year or so. You also have to remember that the MAC group is very pro active with students. For example they sold 250 Aptus 22 backs in July 2006 to the Hallmark school of photography with Mamiya mounts. The students had to purchase a Mamiya AFD II kit & they were provided with the digital back. That is very smart marketing. Now with the AFi that is a different price point to the Mamiya. To me it is all good news for MFD. I am very impressed with the new lenses coming from Mamiya & that 45-90 looks great.

Denis

This deal has been out for a while, jackass.

Okay. I'm outta here. I'll check back in in a few months to see if things have changed but for now, this place has turned into just another crap forum. Enough is enough!

See ya!

Some of us may recall a certain thread dated back to August 4th, 2006, that had an obvious political taste to it.

The thread was thankfully deleted however the OP of this thread was as anti-Leaf then as he is now.

Michael maybe you can treat this thread in the same manner?

Thank you

Yair

Good grief. What's happening to this forum. Anybody can say anything these days.

Phase and Mamiya have been making a big deal about their "new" system being an "open" system. Heaven forbid someone should actually follow thru on that and promote their backs for the "new" system.

The more companies that offer products and deals for the Phase/Mamiya system, the better, don't you think???

James,

He uses an Alpa.

Cheers.

These few words tend to cause forums to implode

Yair,

Do show a little restraint - we'll like you all the more for it

Edmund

You can get a free Toyo with your Leaf back too.

http://www.leafamerica.com/specials.asp

But that has been a promo also going on for some time.

As has been said, this is not new.

I think it should also be pointed out that Thierry (Sinar), Doug, Lance, Chris (Capture Integration Phase One), Jordan (DTG), Steve (PPR Digital) have all given back tremendously in this forum also. I did a huge amount of lurking and trawling of this forum for information to inform myself before I finally made my purchase, and although I didn't buy from any of these folk (purely practical, geographic local support reasons), I learned a lot from their responses to genuinely help others. I don't think I have seen hard selling in this forum so far. Sometimes, if they did not post clarifications to announcements, somebody would have asked for it sooner or later, right?

I will also say that I am happy to have the various reps here. This is the one of the few places where you can gather some real information although you do have to often wade through a lot of unnecessary comments from other people from time to time.

OK Billy, I've change that to what kind of camera would Salgado use.

That should make it all ok.

JR

That's an easy one. He's basically shelved his Leicas and for his latest,multiyear
project dealing with the worlds ecological hotspots has chosen to use the 'lowly' Pentax 645
and black and white film.

http://arts.guardian.co.uk/salgado/0,,1294976,00.html


Mark

Oh, is Salgado JC?