To All Interested Forum Members,

I believe it's time to give this new Cambo camera its own discussion thread.

Most of what little info I have about the new Wide RS version was kindly supplied to me by fellow forum members who have had a brief opportunity to see or handle the prototype model in the last month or so.

The RS camera is said to be around 6 inches square vs. the larger 9 x 8.5 inch rectangular size of the current DS model.

The RS is said to favor digital photography more so than the ability to shoot with film; thus the smaller overall size.

The amount of rise, fall, left, and right shift is approximately 15 to 20mm.

The current line up of Schneider and Rodenstock focus mount lenses that are available for the WDS and Compact models are said to fit the new RS version.

It's interesting to note that if this was a discussion about a new DSLR that was about to hit the store shelves within the timeframe of a couple of months, we would already be neck deep with specs, pictures, and endless pro & con discussions about the model. In the case of the RS, we have mostly a silent pause at this point.

I am sure many Alpa enthusiasts will be interested in how this camera compares with the new 12 MAX; given the apparent similarities in design.

Any of the dealer members who frequent this discussion forum willing to contribute more detailed specifications, and a suggested price point for this new camera?

........And a few photos of the camera would be most welcome too!

Thank you.

Joe Bossuyt

You'll also notice the AFi adapter.
For availability and pricing best would be to contact Calumet.

Now wasn't it a shame I didn't bring a camera to Focus!

Thank goodness you did Yair! (But wasn't the AFi 7 a bit of overkill for these shots )

On a serious note, I have contacted Calumet, and as of about a week ago, they have no clue about availability.
Jon

Is the lensmount unchanged? The locking arrangement seems different.

Cheers,
Kumar

AFAIK the lens mounts and the back adapters are 100% similar to the ones on the WD-S

Yair

PS Jon be sure you speak to the right people - 0207-380-4511

Thanks, Yair
J

Thank you Yair!

Your RS photos are a joy to my eyes and most welcome.

Regards,

Joe Bossuyt

Thanks for those shots Yair!

Note the nifty viewfinder in the bottom of one of those images...

since I consider the Alpa max would definitely like to hear more about this one....

When released, I truly wish Cambo would be more honst about the shift parameters. While they are selling a shift camera, what is one to shift that lenbs to?

This is stated to have a 15mm-20mm degree of shift? The current 24XL has zero amount of shift because of the image circle size. Even the 35XL and 47XL are only capable of @ 11-14mm. My point being, a 20mm shift camera is lovely. Being able to use 20mm of shift/rise might actually be an added incentive. Currently, it is not a usable feature unless you have a very long lens.

At least that's my experience.
d

Respectfully, I'd disagree. What should they state, if not their maximum shift capabilities? Different figures for each lens?

I would expect they are showing it with the 24xl to show it can be used on that camera and therefore how close the lens and back can be with this system and how precise it is. Not every solution can take that lens. It also shows how compact the system can be with a lens attached, something relevant when you have to travel with your kit. They did have other lenses on show too.

Apparently it uses the same lens mount as the WDS so it will take all the same lenses with all their respective image circles. Your experience may differ, but my experience is you can shift the 35 Digitar 15mm comfortably and the 47 Digitar well beyond the 20mm maximum shift of this camera given its 113mm image circle. Even the Rodenstock Digital 55 (non HR) has a circle well beyond at 125mm.

So I think claiming the need for very long lenses to need these amounts of shift is unfair. I use these sort of shift amounts every day and I doubt I'm the only one.

Matt

To All,

I received an email reply from Rene Rook at Cambo about the new Wide RS camera model.

Based on the very few working pre-production models, the current highlights of the camera at this time, are as follows:

The vertical travel range, as well as the horizontal travel range, is to be a total of 40mm in each direction.

Both movements are on the same side of the camera, in the focal plane, so that stitching in all directions can be achieved while the lens position remains stationary.

Movements in both directions are GEARED.

Even though the Wide RS is smaller that the Wide DS, it still has geared movements in the 4 directions, 20mm left, 20mm right, 15mm "down", and 25mm "up".

Since the lens side of the camera does not move; the rear plate lowers to a maximum of 25mm to achieve the rise of the image up to a max of 25mm.

A detachable tripod mount, approximately 25 mm in height, will allow room for the vertical shift above the level of the tripod platform.

Unfortunately, I failed to ask, and Rene failed to mention, if the geared movements can be locked in place, as featured with the Wide DS. However, based on the posted photos, it looks as though there are two "roller" controls for each shift direction; one obviously providing the movement, and the other to probably tighten the new position.

The height of the camera body without its detachable tripod mount is only 150 mm. There is a tripod mounting hole provided on the body of the camera.

The width of the camera body is only 155 mm including the 2 handgrips on either side as shown in the posted photos.

The thickness of the body (with camera adapter in place, without lens) is 46 mm.

Interchangeable camera adapters will be available for the Hasselblad V and H models, Contax, Mamiya, as well as the new Leaf Afi and Sinar Hy6.

The RS lens mounts are the same as the existing Wide DS and Wide Compact models.

The RS is NOT replacing the Wide DS.

The Wide RS is a smaller alternative to the Wide DS, and will be a third model in the product line, which includes the Wide Compact.

Comparing the two Cambo shift models:

The Wide DS’s H x W x Depth = 220 x 219 x 120 mm

The Wide RS’s H x W x Depth = 150 x 155 x 46 mm

To date, no definite pricing has been determined, but the RS camera price is expected to be similar in range to the Wide DS.

According to Rene, more detailed info and specs for the new Wide RS model will be up on the Cambo website soon.

Joe

danazoo,

For the "sensor challenged" owners out there such as myself (I happen to still use a Kodak Proback Plus and/or a Leaf Aptus 17), I am able to use that shift capability even with the 24mmXL lens. With a two image stitch, I can obtain the same field of view as the "full frame" 36x48 sensor folks.

Joe

The only drawback I could see with this camera is for stitching applications.

The 'worm gear' style rollers might take a lot of revolutions to move the full 40mm in one direction. This is unless there is a coarse and fine adjustment (which would be complicated).

Of course until one gets hands-on one cannot know for sure.

The Wide is very fast to stitch with, though the one feature I don't like is that the locking adjustment for the movements can easily interfere with the position of the shift and or rise that is there. And the difficulty of operating the camera from the rear... something Alpa have partially solved with their 'mini ballcock' shift indicator.

This is not my experience, it's more like this, with Schneiders Digitars on an Aptus 75 - Alpa XY

24XL @ f11 with CF: 4-5mm

35XL @ f16 with CF: 20mm, if you can accept a small degree of "artistic" fall-off, then you can add 2-4mm and you can make the graduation of the fall-off less harsh if you remove the centerfilter.

47XL @ f16 without CF: 35mm, again you can add 5-8mm if you can accept some degree of fall-off.

This is all in landscape shifting up.

/Adam

The gearing is much quicker than the Alpa. I played with both those and the Silvestri's at this show. I don't remember there being a coarse and fine adjustment though.

Jon

I spoke with Rene today. He said the shifting goes quickly.
Production starting in 2 - 3 months.
Info up on web site in a week or so.

regarding shift, if you want more shift with the above mentioned lenses you could always focus a bit closer to increase the image circle and with depth of field still keep your subject in focus. Might gain a few mm shift this way. Also I believe the more you stop down the harsher the falloff no? Finally, one could do some parallax correction in pshop though it is not ideal.

I am very interested in this camera compared to the new alpa max which should be available about the same time. The cambo should be significantly smaller than the alpa and less expensive I imagine.

I certainly hope so!
J

IMHO,

The Cambo Wide RS is a timely opportunity for Cambo to downsize and revise some of the features of the older Wide DS without having to accommodate the larger design parameters required for film based photography. It is also an obvious marketing response to the new Alpa 12MAX model, since both will be smaller versions of their larger brethren, have similar features, and are due on the market at roughly the same time. I also believe, as well, that the Wide RS will be introduced at a significantly lower price than the 12MAX, based on the price points of the current camera models of both brands.

The competing brand's new camera sizes:

Cambo Wide RS - Height x Width x Depth = 150 x 155 x 46 mm

The Alpa 12MAX - Height x Width x Depth = 206 x 177 x 31mm

Joe

jonstewart and bryanyc,

Are either of you able to confirm the nature of the shift controls used on the new Cambo Wide RS?

Are there indeed 2 roller controls side by side for each shift direction; as the possible separation of the two rollers is barely discernable in the above posted photos?

Is one roller control used for adjusting the shift, and the second adjacent roller control functioning as a shift lock? Or is there some other mechanism involved for this?

Thank you.

Joe

Too bad! I just bought the WDS two weeks ago and now Cambo is coming up with this small and lightweight Body. If i only had known what they had in their shelves.

The fact that only the back is moving while shifting horizonal/vertical is a real winner over the WDS for me.

But honestly, i don't like the look of the new Handgrips on the Wide RS. Something like the clear and nice finished wooden grip of the WDS would look much better.

Already a retail price stated ?

I'm not so sure if you can compare the Max and the RS so easily.

At the first look maybe similar concepts, but when you go into the details, these cameras are quite different beasts.

The Alpa is heavier, bigger and more solidly built. Like on the XY all rails are integrated in the camera housing.

The shift rails on the Cambo move outside of the camera outline, which shortens the mounting base when shifting. Some of the Rodenstock HR lenses are quite heavy, combined with a digital back this could become problematic. It has to be seen if this has any impact on the stability and precision and therefore achievable image quality. That the shift rails are mounted stacked on the back could be a possible source of problems too, imprecisions would add up?

Comparisons based on weight don't seem a feasible method to imply on a camera's qualities. You wouldn't do such a comparison betwween a Schneider Digitar 24mm (305gr) and the Rodenstock HR 28mm (876gr), wouldn't you?
Some cameras can be too small and/or light too. Figures don't tell everything, what counts is the end result.

Both cameras are prototypes now, both will be released to the public in a few months. Then will be the time to really find out if a direct comparison makes sense at all.

Just my 5 cents.

Sorry Joe,
It's been too long now, and I can't remember...that's old age for you!
Jon

Any word about when this will appear? Is it vaporwear or for real?

Well, a few of us played with the prototype in March, so I wouldn't imagine it should be much longer!

Can someone describe how one will focus these cameras please?

Thanks,

Jerry

Lenses would be on a helical mount, I would imagine. I think it uses the same mounts as the Wide DS.

The lenses tend to be in a helical mount. So it means you can:

a) Mount the camera on a tripod and either shoot hyperfocal, or set the lens to infinity, whichever is more appropriate.

Or, if shooting handhed in good light, then guess focus to approximate distance, then stop down as far as you can manage - e.g., avoid shooting wide open.

c) Set the camera on a tripod and use live video to focus critically if you can shoot tethered.

Or use a laser rangefinder to measure the distance. I use a Bosch unit that is a little bigger than a pack of cigarettes. It is accurate to 1.5mm over a measuring range of 2 inches to 165 feet. Very effective.

see: http://www.boschtools.com/PRODUCTS/TOOLS/P...spx?pid=DLR165K

I just wanted to show you some more images of the new RS that I received from Cambo. I was told it would be shipping in July. Here are a few other notes that I was told:

Technically, the height of the camera has changed slightly, but is still 165 mm including the removable tripod mounting block,
while the width including the black anodised handles as shown in the image is only 155 mm...

Movements go upto 20 mm left/ 20 mm right and 25 rise / 15 mm fall (lens towards CCD, where the CCD moves actually)

Interface plates for Hasselblad-V, Hasselblad-H, Mamiya 645AFd, Contax 645, Leaf AFi and Sinar HY6 compatible backs,
same range of lenses interchangeable with the WideDS of course, from 24 upto 120 mm, (24,28,35,45,47,55,60,70,72,80,90,100,120)
with any other lens in between on request if possible.

The Wide RS body comes complete with handgrips, 4 spirit levels, accessory shoe on the top, removable tripod adapter, cable release,
(to be inserted through the handles either left or right - not visible in the images however).


Optional accessories include the WDS-580 viewfinder with masks, a universal ground glass (fitting to the interface mount) with CCD markings
and a set of wooden handgrips will follow also, as well as a lensplate with bayonet for the Leaf AFi/ Sinar HY6/ Rollei lenses..
Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
chris@captureintegration.com
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year

877-217-9870 | National Atlanta/ Miami
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I also found out about the geared movements from Cambo this morning. This is what they said:


The Wide RS uses advanced (accellerated) gearead movements to all sides.
The movements have detents every 5mm, (usefull when stitching) with clear scales in mm on the side and the top, but also movement indicators visible from the rear side.


Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
chris@captureintegration.com
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year

877-217-9870 | National
404-234-5195 | Cell
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thanks for the info...any ideas about the pricing?

Depending on how the dollar does, the pricing will be approx. 2300 Euros (which translates into 3500 US $) for a complete body with an interface plate (excl viewfinder). A complete camera with a 35XL Schneider lens will end up around 5000 Euros ( 7500 US$).

Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
chris@captureintegration.com
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year

877-217-9870 | National Atlanta/Miami
404-234-5195 | Cell
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Terrific to have more choices.
First the Alpa Max, and now the Cambo RS, both optimized for quick stitching.
I can only wonder if Sinar has something up their sleeve for Photokina,
since they started this category with their Handy.

Others to watch: Arca-Swiss, Gottschalt, Horseman, Linhof, Silvestri.

Also what's interesting
is that both Alpa & Cambo have announced lensplates for Rollei-mount lenses to be used
[will require Rollei LensControl S paddle].

Continue to wonder, Billy!



No more that long to wait, indeed.

Best regards,
Thierry

I just can't wait for some chinese knock off that works at 75% of the performance at 25% of the price. $7500 USD for basic set up seems quite out of this world, but then again Alpa seems to be doing well at this sort of price point.

Guess I would like to take a quote from the other thread, with some slight modification. "The performance is the same, but at a higher price you command more respect."

You should look into some chinese lenses then, they are half the price of the camera. Not sure the chinese are making digital medium format lenses though

schaubild

I agree with your observations about the Max and the RS, they are different beasts. Not having used an Alpa, I have always admired the simplicity and beauty of the Alpa SWA.

The Cambo RS has more similarities to the Horseman digital body with regards to size and performance...........it is a small technical camera with selflocking geared movements (Horseman had a friction with lock movement)
Like you, I was concerned about the small size and its ramifications with regard to precision.
After having used a preproduction RS for the last couple of months, I see no difference between
the RS and its sibling the CamboWide DS......... both cameras are precise enough for making photographs.

In addition to being a smaller sized camera, the RS has both the rise/fall and shift movements consolidated on one rear moving panel that holds the sensor or ground glass........if you do multirow stitches the vanishing point is held constant since the lens panel is fixed ( this feature of the consolidated movements may or may not be critical depending on your choice of stitching softwares).

The geared movements are selflocking and do not drift or move unless you touch the control mechanism. It is a nicely designed and manufactured camera..........the handles and the body
are anodized aluminum.

All the lens panels are interchangeable between the DS and the RS......
because of the condensed size, the RS has two levers instead of one to hold/release the lens panel.

It is a very straight forward and robust design that will allow you to work efficiently under many different shooting environments. I particularly like the lens guards which allow you to put the camera down securely as well as pack it in a back pack or soft case.

The only optional accessories you might want to purchase: view finder for quick rough composing or handheld shootings, and a groundglass & focusing hood for critical composing. You simply specify the mounting interface plate (I think it is included with the camera) and you are ready to shoot.

The integration of the AFI/Hy6 lenses and the Hy6 rotating adapter are interesting as well.

The only thing that is on my wish list is a technical camera with a sliding back to make composing and shooting a more fluid process


regards

Have you ever worked with an Alpa??

Yes, they are expensive - but there "performance" IMO are worth every cent.... they don´t need a high price point for getting my respect, they get it from the pleasure and joy of daily use.

The whole system is nothing less than outstanding - at least for architectural photography.

/adam

I have to agree with Adam,
Alpa is the system for the Pros.
Who cares if the Alpa Max body is $6K?

It will outlast me + I can sell it for a similar price.

Unlike my DB

The family of Cambo Wide cameras (WideCompact, Wide RS and Wide DS) share the same interchangeable lenspanels, so customers can upgrade from WideDS to WideRS, or have 2 bodies using simultaneously. The Wide RS is dedicated to digital platform, where the WideDS also has an analog platform based on 4x5”. Those users can not use their analog lenssystems on the Wide RS without modifying it for digital use.

Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
chris@captureintegration.com
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year

877-217-9870 | National
404-234-5195 | Cell
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Chris --

Do you know if the viewfinder for the DS will work with the RS?

Thanks.

Paul

Paul,

From my understaning, it will. Cambo seems to want to make it compatible with the WDS system.

Chris Lawery
Capture Integration

That was the message I got as well, from Rene Rook at Focus, if it's any help.
Jon

A Rollei lens adapter for the Alpa cameras is available since 2005/2006.

To all,

I discovered this morning that a 3-page PDF file of the Wide RS Operating Instruction Manual is now available on Cambo's website for downloading at:

http://www.cambo.com/Html/downloads/Linked...2/WRSmanual.pdf

Lots of great info on the new camera system.

Joe Bossuyt

just talked to Calumet in NYC
Cambo said they were to have the camera this month.
Calumet said no, that it won't be out until photokina

Calumet Photo has product web page for the Cambo RS at:

http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/CB0579/

The page indicates that a least the WDS-1000 Body is in stock.

However, the WRS Digital Back Interface Adapters are NOT listed anywhere on the store website (and, of course, the camera is not functional w/o a DBIA for your MFDB)

So I guess one has to wait a bit longer.

Cambo promised availability in July.

Two more weeks left make good on this.

Joe Bossuyt

Is this camera compatible with the newer P65+ back?

Cheers,
Bernard

There should be no problem from what I can see. The P65+ uses the same mount as the other PhaseOn backs. It will require less LCC work though from what the specs say and since it is a DALSA sensor.

We have gotten one of the Cambo RS's in and it is in the hands of a very experienced Cambo Wide user. I am going to try to get him to post some impressions Overall I think he is impressed with it.
Also Cambo is closed this month for holiday, so that is probably why there is such a wait.

BR
Lance Schad
Capture Integration - Miami/Atlanta
Direct: 305-534-5701 x1 | Cell: 305-394-3196
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