I have been eye-balling the Para-FB from Broncolor quite awhile now but all of my strobes are Elinchrom. Now, I could just get over it and get myself the big Elinchrom Octa but I really like the Para FB a bit better.

I could also get some Broncolor strobes to go with it. Either way means making compromises that I yet do not want to make. Also considering it is quite a substantial investment, I am hesitant to maintain 2 types of strobe brands.

Is anyone familiar with either a 'knock-off' (hate that word) of the Para that has the same lighting characteristics or is there an adapter to be able to mount Elinchrom strobes in the Para FB?

You can use the Broncolor Para with any manufacturer's lamphead that provides a "bogen" style adapter.

So, you can buy the Para, and use whatever you want with it. But you might consider the Bron Ringflash - it mounts dead-center, which gives you exremely even light, and features that very cool catchlight of the circle dots.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php

the broncolor para makes only fun with the ringlight. i used it with profoto heads, would not recommend it. the light was visible uncentered and unbalanced.

The two are completely different light quality:
Para=focused
Octa=broad large source

you should really consider the briese focus series, it is the original which bron tried to copy with the para. it's beautiful lighting and you don't need a ringflash. i would always go with the briese instead of the bron.

cheers,
martin

The Para FB is very nice. The only thing better in my estimation is the Briese Focus series. I've only used the para with Bron lit with the Ring Flash (P? The new one with modeling light and fans). I'd like to use one with my Profoto lights but was told it was impossible. Steve, what is the Bogen adaptor?


I often mimic the Para and the Briese Focus. Its not identical, but can be very close. For the wide soft light use a large silk or the El Octa, then place a hard light, or two, or three, in the middle of the soft source, perhaps a 1/3 stop hotter than the soft bank. The Profoto heads are focusable which is ideal for faking the Para or Focus. This set up is, however, not practicable. A lot more rigging than setting up a Para.

T

the focus got a slight different light look, i'm using both. but anyway both systems produce an absolute kick-ass light.

Thx! for all responses. I checked out the Briese and that seems to be a very interesting option.

Yes, the Briese stuff looks hot.

and I forgot: a photog I know got his briese strobe adapted to his balcar generators so he didn't have to buy a briese generator (which I totally dislike by the way). I don't know if briese does that or if he got it custom made by some tech, but it is possible... so maybe you could still use your elinchrom packs, just get the focus, head and flashtube.

I'm a big fan of Elinchrom equipment but as you already mentioned the Elinchrom Octa is not anything like the Para. The octa is very soft and even without the diffusion cloth still much softer and different. If you're looking for Para light then you will not find it in the Octa although the Octa has very nice light too.

Maybe the solution you're looking for is to have a Broncolor head adapted to the elinchrom pack. That way you could stay with your Elinchrom power pack.

I wanted to do the same with a Profoto ringflash and my dealer said it wouldn't be a problem. I then got a reasonalbe deal on some Profoto equipment and now have quite some of their equipment too. But beside the Ringflash I'm mostly still using the ELinchrom stuff.

These guys do this often I'm told.
http://www.flashclinic.com

As far as Briese goes... the newer equipment is nice... but it's so expensive I'm not sure it is an option for anyone sane :-)

Seriously... a simple light head/modifier can run more than 3 Elinchrom packs with heads, etc.

Cheers
Boris

Balcar used to provide Briese to Balcar adapters for its Nexus generators.

However, Balcar no longer provides this adapter for its latest B, T and F generators which use rectangular connectors.

Briese's generators aren't its strong suit. You get Full or One-Quarter power out of its A and B sockets respectively with one head and Three-Quarter and One-Quarter power if you use two heads . Briese used to provide adapters for other manufacturers' generators and then abruptly stopped providing them last year. So, it is possible to have adapters for them but I have yet to find a techncian who would agree to do it. Tried Flash Clinic in NYC. Nada.

If you wish to use a Briese light modifier today with flash, you are stuck with using the Briese Yellow Cubes.

You may also use the Briese with the Hensel Porty 1200J generator with its 6 F-stop adjustability. But you are stuck with its slow flash duration and long recycling time.

I don't understand why Herr Werner Briese does not update his Yellow Cubes or have someone like Hensel, elinchrom or Profoto OEM them for him. If he would do that, he would find greater acceptance of his products. The Yellow Cubes are stuck in the 70s.

If you wish to see Herr Briese go tomato-red in the face, just mention BRONCOLOR

same here tried the same
briese is gettin' more and more agressive against techs that converte briese heads.

the briese yellows aren't so bad. a bit bulky and outdated yes... but they're still bloody fast and quite constant

Hi Dustbak,

The Broncolor Para -FB is a very nice system especially when coupled with the Broncolor ringflash. I invested into it myself last year when Calumet had a 20% sale drive on the Para. Since I´m shooting with Profoto I had Silvinos Pro Flash in Hollywood convert the Broncolor mounting into a Profoto 7 adapter. It works really great and I´m positive this will work for Elinchrome as well. I have tried to put Profoto´s own heads and ring flashes but the result is just not the same. The light tends to be very uneven at the edges compared to the center.
The only drawback with the Broncolor ringflash (besides the price) is that they are using a UV-coated circular flash tube that gives a warm light (4800 Kelvin) so you´ll probably need to put a cooling filter on it to balance it with your original Elinchrome heads. I have tried Briese and Profoto in the past and I think the Brocolor is a happy medium. Good luck!

are you sure this isn't / wasn't your powerpack? i got constant readings (colormeter) around +- 5500 with a grafit pack

That was my first assumption too and maybe you´re right. I´m using Profoto D4´s and Pro7 B´s and I´m getting the same warm results with each pack. Unless the voltage is slightly different between Profoto´s and Broncolor´s packs which alters the color balance, the only explanation is the UV coated flashtube in the Ringflash P. Profoto´s ProRing2 gives me a clean and neutral light but not as even as Bron´s due to the reflector design. I will find out why the two systems differs on my packs. I just assumed that it was Bron´s look that I generally found warmer looking than Profoto´s which also seem to be the case with Briese but please correct me if I´m wrong.Click to view attachment

There is a protective dome that comes with our Para kit - it affects the color temperature. I cannot remember if it warms or cools, or if it is used in combination with the Ringflash, but this dialogue is ringing a bell and that may be the issue.

I can confirm this tomorrow.

Steve Hendrix

Nothing came with the Para Kit /Ringflash P when I first got it but hopefully this is the missing link:) Looking forward to see what you´ll find out.

Best, Per

According to this PDF, a matte protection glass is included with the ParaFB for use with their PulsoG flash head

i just called bron, they told me the ringflash tube is coated for 5500k

and the matte pulso protection glass delivered with the para is just for a more even pilot light

Thanks for the info, Shedaoshai. Seems like there might be a compatibility issue then between Bron and Profoto that interfere with the color balance. Going to wait and see what Steve Hendrix finds out and if necessary call Silvino´s Pro Flash and see what solution he can come up with.

Best, Per

Hey I have a question for you para guys..:+}
Are you guys using the Para close up or far away from your subject and doesn't the Huge Catchlight bother some of you that shoot it pretty close up?
Thanks for any info.
I actually bought a Chinese para rip off that is Exactly the same as the para but several K less expensive..:+}
I just do not like the catchlight sometimes but maybe shooting it too close up to the sunjects.
Mine is the 2.5 meter one..:+}
Snook

Please provide a link.

On my Profoto-7a, there is a knob which allows an adjustment of colour temperature in increments of 50 Kelvins. I am sure there is the same function on the D4 and 7b packs. You may try adjusting that to get a 5500K balance.

I have had a lot of Request for the Knock off..
Not sure if I can post it here???
I am in the middle of a long catalogue shoot right now but will find link and send it for those thrifty people looking for an option.
Can some one let me know if I can post here with out getting heat?
Snook

i doubt you'll be banned for life...it's not like you're a Hasselblad worshiper or anything...

profoto is also introducing their new version of the the giant reflector which is the design as briese/para . it will be out in few weeks and use the same mounting system as the giant reflector

bernhard

Great news. Do you know what lamp head it is designed to use? Regular head or Ring? Hopefully a little cheaper than the Bron and Briese.

it will be for their regular heads, but hope they will also suply a mount for the proring

bernhard

Bear in mind any ringlight's flash duration is likely longer due to the length of its flashtube.
You also can not get the quicker recycle and output as when using a bi-tube.

A ring mount would be fantastic! Is this new device a replacement for the Pro Big or is it a whole new reflector familiy?

Thanks,

T

The extra protective dome that came with our Para is a warming dome. From what I can determine, it's for use with non-UV Pulso tubes, so it wouldn't have anything to do with the Ringflash anyway.

But the original Ringflash did not have UV tubes, and the new one does. What does that mean. Well, I don't know for sure, but getting a 4800 temp reading with a ProFoto pack converted for use with the Bron Ringflash could be the result of a number of factors - which pack, what power setting, etc.

Even on the Bron packs, depending on the setting, you could have a variance as you dial up or down, unless it was the Grafit, which has tighter tolerances and allows you to control that color temperature.

Steve Hendrix

I use my Para 220 fairly close to the subject within 6-10 feet (2-3 meters) from camera left or right and with a slight down tilt. You will actually hear a faint echo when you're facing the sweet spot or the center of the light (not a joke). I think your catch light "problem" has to do with the position of the head inside the para. If it's to close to the inside of the umbrella you'll get a very spotted and harsh light. I like to have the head/ringflash almost as far out as possible when shooting people since this gives the nicest wrapping effect. Like using a 8x8 or 12x12 china silk on a frame and adding an open head with reflector in the center. The result is a light with both contrast, smoothness and with a nice wrap. No drastic highlights but without being boring and if you need a little bit more punch you just focus the light a few inches or centimeters.
Seems like you got a good deal on your China made para. I don't blame you for trying to save money but usually an original is better than a copy. Unless they are using identical fabrics/materials and the same shape of the umbrella I doubt you will get the same lighting qualities as with the Bron version.

Profoto used to have a giant umbrella in the middle of 90's that you were able to zoom just like the Briese, but they had to pull it from the market due to lawsuits from Broncolor and Briese. If what you're saying is correct it's great news. I hope their new version will be deeper built than their current models and with a focusing rod. I wonder what kind of fabric they will use on the inside.

some news about the profoto giant

sorry for the german link, it seems that it hasn't been released by profoto.com yet

http://www.profoto.de/news.php?nid=85
http://www.ppl.de/images/stories/PDF_2008/...otonews1_08.pdf

You´re correct about the Pro 7A. Use to have the Pro 6 with the same possibilities to adjust the color temp. The D4 does not have this function and has the same color output throughout the whole power range. It´s not a big deal really with the warm temperature as it could be fixed with a cooling filter. I appreciate everybody´s input and help but it was never my intention to blow it out of proportion. I think it´s just a matter of an UV-coated flash tube and a slight voltage difference between the Bron and Profoto packs that could be fixed with a filter, adjusted in photoshop or by changing the flash tube to a non UV.

Nice!!! I guess Bron and Briese will get some serious competition from my fellow Swedes!

I hope the new Profotos are less awkward to set up than the current Pro Bigs.

Can't wait to try one.

I have a Briese Focus 180, that is used on Profoto, for a few of years now.
It's very beautiful soft and crispy light (hard to explain if you haven't seen it before) and you can't compare it to anything else, the light is just a point in the centre of the hyperbolic umbrella, no lighthead or ring. You can focus the light by pushing it up and down in the centre. The para is a bad copy of the Briese focus, it's only the umbrella that is the same, not the building of the flash itself.
Briese Focus 180 information

why should it be "bad" ? it works flawless even compared to the focus

To see a great example of the Briese Focus 220 used with an HMI look at the Amy Winehouse Rehab video. A really beautiful light.

T

Throw a diffusion on the Para 220, focus the light all the way out and pull back from the subject and I guarantee you will get a very similar fall off result as with the Briese. I recognize the look from when using a Profoto HMI in an 8 foot umbrella with a 1/3 stop diffuser not to close to the subject. Briese has more of a "powdery" look due to a more dull silver interior than Pro and Bron. There´s no question that Briese has a superior product but to say that the competition are bad copies is ignorant as there are so many ways to shape a light. Put on a light diffuser on half of the umbrella and I think you´ll be surprised over the result.

Because the para uses a flashhead that is not centered and the Briese uses a point of light that is centered and that is a big difference.

Check out the construction of Bron´s RingflashP.

I think they are both great, with the edge going to the Briese. When I have a need (and the budget) for that quality of light I rent a Focus. Its an awesome top light with a little grid cloth to control spill for video, and an awesome single source for fashion if you can get it high enough. I also really like the Focus 70 with an HMI.

Hi
I have rented the Briese 180 & it is a beautiful light & easy to set up. It is also very light compared to the Bron Para which is much heavier after you put a Bron head in it. To me they are very different because the Bron head aim inwards like an umbrella while the Briese flash tube aims outwards. With the scrim on you cannot refocus the Bron while you focus the Briese from the back which is very easy. I know down here in Sydney they are running the Briese off of Profoto packs.
Denis

Hi, I got the broncolor para 220. It's a very nice light shaper.
This reflector is just magic. It's like multiple light shapers in one reflector.
You can go from hard spotted to exrteme soft light. In a few seconds you can change the whole
characteristics of the light. Maybe the biggest positv difference to the briese umbrella is the ease of use. The Bron Para 220 is very easy and fast to install. Briese is a bit more tricky.
Ah yeah, there are about 4 diffrent Bron Paras out there. Like Denis said, not all Bron paras can be adjusted from the back. I got one, that the light can be adjusted all the time just from the back of the umbrella even when theres the silk put on the front. I have to check the para version for the name...

Tim

Hi!

Any one got retail prises for the briese products? Any online dealer who sells them?

I have an octa and it is like putting a window in the room, with the spring light outside. I bought it when I started out doing fashion, because it was the only flash I could use without training. As you can guess I'm not very good at lighting - but the octa results were always as good as I needed.

When working at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, I met the guy who designed the octa, he showed me some use tricks, and taught me how to set it up. One of the big advantages of this unit is that I carry just one umbrella over my shoulder, one light stand and one monolight and a reflector, and one camera bag, so I don't need an assistant to move my stuff.

One interesting shot I did, the AD was waiting for me, with a Nikon Coolpix around her neck, and when I walked in with the octa she said "Oh, I thought you were going to bring some lights".

I've used the big Profoto umbrellas,bigger than the octa, but the octa light is much much softer.

Sorry to be so wordy, but I think the octa+reflectors is a really neat one-piece solution for anyone who can live with soft lighting. I've used it as a lightsource for interiors as well.

Edmund

PS. the octa is an excellent backlight - that thumbnail image of me on the left is actually me backlit against the octa diffuser shooting into a mirror.

Eronald.. they are talkng about a para Jumbo like umbrella.. Not an Octobank..
Guys I a trying to find the link for the Para Imitation.
Do not want you guys to get so excited as many have e-mailed me. The Para I use is great and a copy of the PB. I have a picture but the picture of it does not do it justice at all.
I bought mine from a local dealer that brings it in from China, So It is hard to find a link..
I have apicture which I will post below but it is an older version from an Old catalogue.
I will try to post an actual picture from my studio when I get a chance.
Sorry for the delay.
I paid like 1200.00 us$ more or less for mine with a Stand included.
You can focus the light on the pole or focus the umbrella back and forth.
Again this is a Cheaper version but I really like it and for the price where I live it was a deal..:+}
Also mine has the Silver interior

Snook




Click to view attachment