I was just told by a dealer that the end of the year will bring a 70mp sensor that can also be shot at 35mp for speed by Phaseone. Sounds interesting in that the P45's will get nearer to my price range.

Kevin.

Edit: Bubble bursted by yaya

I just checked the Dalsa and Kodak websites. No sign of a new chip. I wonder who is making it.

If I was you I would challenge this dealer to give you a FREE P45 if it doesn't happen

Wow, I have no interest at all in a 70MP camera. The raw files would probably be in the 70-120 MB range each?? And everything would just have to be downsized like crazy. Er, no thanks.

Yes not a bad idea. He was talking about a recent trip to the factory and what he had been told. Always of course a huge chance he got the wrong end of the stick.

Kevin.

well it's Photokina year so I suppose we will see something new from our favourite DB brands.
What is possible with the existing chips:
-Better ISO? hope so
-Better screens: I really hope so, but can't see Phase/Leaf/Sinar/Hassy coming with just an updated screen only,
.Wireless shooting finally
Better Moiré for some, better resultats with camera movements for others.
I think and hope that they announce at least something new, even if it takes another 6 month to ship. Doesn't have to be >40mp chip, just a better one.
But I suppose Photokina wishlists will appear here during the summer break;-)


Tom

Rather than going for 70mPixel, in an undisclosed format (could it be larger than the current chips?) would they not be better offering a lower pixelcount multishot system?

I know that multishot has more limited use than single, but it would appear that filesize of the order of 70mpixels may not offer much more than what we have with the P45 / P45+ today, if people feel the need to downsize.

Also, what happens with the demand on the resolution of the glass? Is there glass that can resolve appropriate to this, if it isn't a much bigger (physical) sensor?

Hi
I think we will have to wait for Photokina.

Back in October a P1 rep mentioned that they are working on a prototype 100MP digital back.

Yair,


If Leaf ever comes out with a 70mp back will you buy me one?

Actually, I only need 1/2 of one so you can save the other 35mp for a backup.

Thanks

JR

39mp multishot seems all I would ever need... I remember before mfdb.. the scanners were getting very good with 4x5, so much so that I hardly used the 8x10 at all the last year before I switched to db..I know I would like not to pay for that extra 30 odd megapixels.. or the memory to store them.. working on a 1gig layered file is a tad slow for me as it is.
now a real 6x8 sensor with 40mp that would be nice.. maybe someday.

How about a Leaf Afi7?

4x5 format?

Some wild speculation: this could be asign of the first CMOS sensor for medium format.

Kodak is promoting its new CMOS sensor capabilities (joint work with IBM and Toshiba I believe), with one option of a cell size (pixel spacing) of about 5 microns and with an offer to make custom sensors up to very large sizes. 70MP in Kodak's current maximum sensor size of about 37x49mm corresponds to about 5 micron cell size. Also, CMOS is far better suited to options of lower resolution at higher frame rates than the Full Frame CCD type of sensors in current medium format.

Then again, Kodak also has a recent interline CCD in 4/3" format with about 4.8 micron cell size and options of binning to lower resolution for higher frame rates, so maybe that technology is being scaled up.

My hunch is that the reduction of feature sizes on sensors is greatly reducing the main advantage of Full Frame CCD architecture over interline CCD and CMOS: the larger fraction of each cell available for electron well. So Kodak might be moving to interline CCD and/or CMOS for some high end sensors. If so, DMF could get improved Live View: nice for computer control in the studio?

Absence of any such new sensor from the Kodak or Dalsa websites does not say much: Kodak has in the past sometimes developed a new sensor in collaboration with a primary client, and then announced it for general sale only when that client's products is announced.

Well, I have the camera and the lenses just waiting for a full frame 6x7cm, 70mp sensor. I reckon the lenses are not good enough for a seriously cropped 36x48mm format. I'm prepared to wait .

Ahm...you mean the Leaf C-Most from 2000 and its successor the Valeo 6?

Anyone for a bet that there is NOT going to be a 70MP back any time this year?

That may be true for most people with 39MP at their hands, but I'm sure landscape photographers would be quite happy with 70MP. Storage for those large files is cheap, IMO.

70MP would give you approximately a 24x32 inch print @ 300dpi straight out of the camera, with no enlarging. That's about 7200x9600 pixels. I admit, I wouldn't mind having that much resolution.

It's a pretty good jump in print size, from 18x24 inches that 39MP gives you, but of course, you need a lot more MP than 70 to double the resolution that 39MP provides.

And then what happens when we get full-frame 645? Of course, the MP race will continue, well past 70MP...

Landscape photographers already have a 160 MP solution:
http://www.roundshot.ch/xml_1/internet/de/...8/d925/f934.cfm

Wow 70mpix! To think I was so happy with my 4.3 megapixel 1D when it first came out....then again I had that happy smile with the 1Ds, Leica DMR, and lastly with the Rollei 6008/p20. But you know and I know we'll all want more even if what we have now can get the job done.

It will be interesting to see how as the internet takes over magazines, newspapers and TV and if and when the need for high pixel still images changes?

I don't, I don't want anymore than my 18mp. I want a better screen, better dr, faster shooting, lighter weight. I want a mamiya 7 with around a nice big 18mp ccd chip in it.

get ZD camera:)

I don't know much about the ZD as I've only held one in Japan about a year ago, but when you step back and thnk of it, it could have been the pentax 6x7 of digital.

Portable but kind of slow, big (relatively) frame size, and farily inexepensive (for medium format).

But back in the film days, a camera with more mirror slap than a B actress, and non optimum workflow (loading film) could be offset by huge 6x7 resoltuion, a variety of sensors (film), fast lenses and you could always buy 4 of them and have an assistant keep loading.

Since this thread started on the possiblity of a 70mp sensor, you have to think that nothing holds medium format down like the availability of sensors. It seems you have almost 645 with low to medium iso and a little smaller than 645 with low/medium to low/high iso but nothing new or revolutionary like cmos, of high iso, or 6x7 or . . .

I guess my question is . . . is the medium format world more expensive because the market is small, or is the market small because medium format is more expensive.

Would the ZD be a hit if there were 20 different 645 sensors to choose from that had a range of iso options and shooting speed and would the development funds for such a camera be larger if they end product sold for $7,000 or less?

Is there a market for a 6x7 digital camera like the pentax if it had a 5" lcd screen or went wirelessly to an Ipod touch AND didn't cost $50,000?

I somewhat don't understand the photography world. I know there are more professional photographers than ever (by a wide margin), but for films (sensors) we have fewer options than ever and for cameras, fewer options still.

I think the thing that holds back medium format is the percieved complexity and costs and the fact that all of the buyers are now trained to know that every 12 months or so, a new one is coming out.

Personally I don't think medium format isn't any more complex than the dslrs and in some ways when tethered it's much easier, but I do know that for the unknowing to walk into a camera store and see a digital camera in the flesh, fire off a few frames and compare a dslr lcd to any medium format, you probably understand why so much is shot with Canons and Nikons.

Then if the your ready to write the check for say a p21 or a p30 and a salesman says, "hey guess what, the next one is going to have 70mp", you probably just put your wallet back in your pocket.

I'm all for moving forward, but before I put any more money out on this stuff, the dslrs included, there has to be a clear and decided difference and not just in pixel count.

JR

Last night about an hour or two after the sun was down I was looking up at the moon and sky. I realized that digital could not do that midnight blue sky justice - maybe on screen but certainly not on print. (I've seen cprints that do nice dark saturated colors but really don't want to avoid dig vs film here).

Honestly, I don't care so much about more pixels, but I do want higher DR and color - and a big chip would be great. I like square too but I'm not hung up on it. So if color and DR improvements are bundled in with more pixels that would be fine.

From just messing around with HDR stacks, I think about 5 more stops than what my P20 is giving me would be about what my eye sees. Highlight and shadow features don't give a natural look so I'm not buying software added DR yet - I want it from the sensor.

Yes, good point, I was thinking a digital mamiya 7 because of it's light weight. I'd love a self contained something or other, I wonder if they'll do a zd 2 with some of the "issues" worked out. That would be nice.

Just to play devil's advocate here - who says a photo has to capture what the eye sees? I would say most of my all time favorite images, from Galen Rowell, Art Wolfe, Jim Brandenburg, Jim Shaw, and David Muench, were all taken on transparency film, with at best five stops of DR. In many cases, it was probably the limited dynamic range that made the images so dramatic and made them pop. Most HDR shots, to me at least, look cartoonish, largely because most of those doing HDR work use it in a heavy handed manner, without any subtlety. To some extent, I think DR is somewhat overrated (which doesn't stop me from wanting more of it, either :-)

I'm talking only about one shot capture backs, but yeah, that thing is pretty sweet.

Yeah, I also would like to see more DR than MPs.
I think about 40 MPs are enough for most of the high end stuff.
But we all would love to have better high iso perfomance and more DR, maybe about 3-5 stops more.
And faster faster faster processing speeds in the backs.
Fast Wifi would be great too, so no more cabel stuff etc.

I think the first DB maker that brings such a back out will be the king of the hill.
Oh and did I say a big clear LCD screen?

And like James mentioned, are the backs so expensive because of the small market or is the market so small because of the high prices?
The DB makers should follow RED's path of marketing, pricing and web-appearence. RED is doing a great job with their clear path of pricing etc.
Their is no guess work envolved. You always know what the prices are.
For every f..ing peace of equipment.

The DB makers should start to wake up if they whatn to survive.

Tim

Sure I agree with you that most HDR stuff looks cartoon like (to my 42yr old eyes and mindset), and many many film shots with limited DR are lovely. But no reason that if there were a camera with say 18 stops DR, you could not just adjust the black and white points and curves to your preference. I'd just like the extra control.

yes it really would be nice to have a mamiya 7D or a fuji 67D rangefinder. the texas leica of digital.

With a 70mp back you will need several assistants to load cf's and hard drives...