New full frame 6x4,5 sensor and + 60 Mpix for photokina; that's what told me my Phaseone dealer last week.
Best regard's
Jeff
My Webpage

Who needs it!
33 or 39 is already problems with storage etc.

Also regarding full frame?

No cropping like the current "full frame" from Hasselblad?

Cheers,

Willem.

Interesting but the news I wanted to hear from Phase was that they had a back for the Hy6!

Gotta love (and hate) rumours.

Good lord, how much is that going to cost (if it's true)?

$60,000?

An incremental increase in the size of the sensor is going to increase the price like crazy, no matter how many megapixels there are. 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, it doesn't matter.

On the bright side, the 36x48mm 33 and 39MP backs should decrease in price. Yay...?

I think this is very plausible.

Hasselblad will call it "super-format" to distinguish it from "full format" and will get the tooling for the 645 finders out of storage

On the other hand more and more Hasselblads are being used as location cameras, so I guess we might see a "super D3" version in due course, with high ISO, more DR, and less MP. Now that's a camera we'd all like.

Edmund

Well the full size is very welcome news, but 60MP? A 30MP version would be just great.

30MP and usable 1600 ISO would be my vote.

Edmund

Yeah, there's a whole list of things they should improve on before going for more megapixels imo. Personally I'd like to see higher and better iso and an lcd on par with the latest dslr. Also, faster capture rates and wireless transfer would be cool.

Landscape photographers and anybody who is less concerned about fps, high ISO speeds and storage space.

yeah, well at the moment a 645 fullframe Phase Mamiya with 60MP is an idea I find mildly entertaining given the abilities of the camera component and lenses. I know whereof i speak, I own a P45+. . A 54x54mm Rollei/Sinar/Leaf or Alpa system I find totally believable on the other hand. I won't speak about Hassy, after all they already have "full-frame", right ?

Edmund

They had better also announce all new glass. Who wants to see another 30MP of fuzz.

How about LIVE PREVIEW? We really, really, really NEED live preview before we need 60 mp. I'm pissed. These MFDB manufacturers are ridiculous. We should start boycotting Phase One, Leaf, etc. until they give us what we want!

rh

Spot on!

Why?

Everyone has different needs.

I thought the Plus series had Live Preview..?

And I agree
WHERE is the new glass and WHERE are the LEAF SHUTTER LEN"S!!!
Snook

I don't know about you all, but I am going to hold out for the 150Mpx version, where 20 shots will fill your hard drive, and you'll need 48MB of RAM to open a file in photoshop, and 98 MB RAM if you intend to use layers. I'll buy two of those.

By the way, does anyone know what the average resolution of photo paper is? As in, how much actual data will stick to the page of say, a 16x24 print?

I didn't mean it in a critical way, am just curious. I can't think of a compelling need for this feature.

I would just be happy with a firmware upgrade from 1.5 to 1 seconds. Other than that speed boast not much else i need. Bigger LCD is always a nice feature but 60 mpx is not something I would buy. Rather buy a second back if anything than and actually a P21 plus with a higer ISO at say 1600 would pretty much throw my Nikons on the street.

I think most shooters would like to see Capture speed increase
Bigger and better LCD
Higher ISO's that perform well at 1600 and maybe more

I would think these three would be the most wanted features, with maybe a couple mores small things.

I would want a nicer screen and the capability to do MS without being tethered (not necessarily because I need it but it would be nice to have and I could use it).

Besides that I am pretty happy with what I currently have.

I could also use longer exposures, also just for fun.

60MP? I now already cannot process on my laptop without being forced to load up on coffee.

That should work great on my mac pro since I have 8 gigs of ram making 48 mb just a wee portion.

Seriously, why do you think anyone ever shot 4x5 or 8x10 cameras?? I regularly print at 36 x47": how much "data" do you think will stick at that size?

anybody want to mention price?

Er, that's right, I meant 98 GIGS!

I don't know how much data sticks at any size.
Anyone??

You ever compare traditional c- prints 48" or so from 4x5 or 8x10 film to your digital ones?

I also would like to see live preview, on a decent back LCD, without the need for an attached laptop. The reason, for me, is to simplify use of the back with technical cams, to avoid the need to use a ground glass or attached viewfinder to support composition, and to avoid the need for a ground glass for precision focussing. Not many people have such bodies, however, so I could see why it might not be high priority to Phase.

Ok, I can understand that, but it's so easy to capture a frame and see it on the LCD screen a second later to check composition. Fine focus is another matter, but I imagine most view camera users work tethered. So, I can understand your wish but the number of view camera users who don't want to work tethered must be a niche market.

Live preview is not just for view cameras! Anyone doing macro, landscape, street or even architectural photography would have a field day with properly implemented live preview. Shoot, anyone doing manual focus would love it. It is a shame that 35mm DSLRs smoke the high end back makers in live preview functionality. Anyone using it on a Nikon D3 or Canon 1D knows what I am talking about.

It is also a joke that the feature to level the + backs is only available tethered. Any landscape photographer that has used the Nikon D3 will tell you that is one of the best new features. Try reading a bubble level without your reading glasses in pre-dawn light. Maybe I'm getting too old to shoot outdoors.

The power requirements of a MFDB is tons more than a 35mm, and therefore I wouldn't anticipate live view without being tethered.

The Leaf Aptus does offer an adjustable grid function un-tethered. It's a nice feature for this very reason.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php

PhaseOne announced earlier this year that the leaf shutter lenses would be presented at photokina, I'm pretty sure I've told you this before, on this very forum.

60mp??

I understand a select few would welcome this, but without the glass to back it up what is the point?

Would the rodenstock hr lenses even support this?

I would think that leaf and phase ones best selling back are the a65 and p30+

Makes you wonder why they think a back priced x2 the amount when the core audience is very aware of the limitations would buy it...

Also logic would tell me that kodak wouldnt go to the trouble of making such a high priced sensor for one company...I could be wrong though.

Either way I would rather see new innovations than a pissing contest of megapixels.

I would be psyched with a 60mpx sensor. My front of book 1/4 pagers for Allure would look even better! I could spend MORE TIME downsizing than I do now when I print pages for my 11x14 book, not to mention the pure joy of shopping in the Apple Store for one of those Octa Core machines I would need to move data around!

I'll pass. I'm sure someone will find a use for it. Landscapers could appreciate the added file size, but who else?

"New full frame 6x4,5 sensor" 60mm x 45mm? 56mmx42mm?

does this mean we can not use Rodenstock HR lens on this new back?

J

all are rumours only ( how many very reliable phase dealers "promised" a hy/afi adapter for sure ? so where is it now ? ) i see no reason for any headage,- but ... the HR have 70mm minimal image circle. they should work with a 42x56 chip, although not allowing much shift anymore.

I think some of you might be forgetting that MP is an area measurement, not a linear measurement. The actual resolution difference in the jump from 39 MP to 60 MP would be roughly the same as that from 26 MP to 39 MP. Plus, I would bet that some of it is from exaggerating the MP count; 60,000,000 pixels is actually 57.2 MP.
I seriously doubt that a 1.2 times increase in resolution is going to make your lenses worthless.

I mentioned it here last month or so, but nobody new nothing so I thought I heard wrong


Hopefuly, P30+/P45+ will be faster, Better ISO, screen larger (better quality), more affordable too... Oooops, I wish

yes, i think thats the way to think about it. p45 isnt twice as sharp as a p25.

im all for more for more megapixels, for some uses. but i do think we will be hitting a ceiling soon.

also, the full frame will be really nice for viewing- that will make the h1 (and i guess the hy6) the big view finder options over canon mk3 again. its a bit of a surprise when you remove the crop mask of an h1 and look through the way it was suppose to be.

paul

Might need something like this to work on the files
http://gizmodo.com/5015730/emperor-worksta...-star-my-office

I've been told a few times by MFDB sales reps and resellers
that the highest megapixel products are the best sellers,
by far.

This is true, but it is due more to price on those particular products, (P30, Aptus 65, and now H3DII-31). What was exposed from the last few batches of digital backs is that the slightly higher premium for larger sensors (49 x 37, 22MP, Upper teen $ - low $20K) vs higher resolution (44 x 33, 28/31 MP, low $20K - mid $20K) was not acted upon. Instead, users chose the lower cost, but higher resolution (and more sensitive) sensor.

But also, until Hasselblad dropped the price on their H3DII-31, most of my H3DII sales were H3DII-39. This is because the price delta between H3DII-31 and H3DII-39 was not dramatic enough ($26,995 vs $33,995). This also explains to some degree why Hasselblad made such a significant price adjustment. Now I will expect - and have already seen - H3DII-31's selling in greater numbers than H3DII-39's.

It is human nature to want the latest and greatest. And despite all the "Oh, 22MP is more than enough" protestations when rumors of 30+ megapixel sensors were rampant, the vast majority of purchasers have shunned 22MP, even though it is relatively low in cost.

That said, 60+ megapixels and higher are on the way - at some point. I do feel that without some form of variable resolution selection at the capture stage, digital backs at this megapixel count may be the first crop of high resolution products that do not produce a volume sales advantage over their lower resolution counterparts.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php

On this I somewhat disagree with you Steve, at least in regards to the Hasselblad and the P30+.

I went with the P30+ not for the reduced cost or reduced sensor size, but because it had better high iso qualities and because it looked fractionally smoother than the 22mp chips. There was also the added benifit of less moire.

I don't want, need, let me put this again, want higher mpx than 20 to 30, but the only thing that would get me to change from the p30+ if there was a 1.1 (excuse me 1.16) crop instead of the 1.3 (excuse me 1.26) crop.

More real estate would be worthwhile, if only to make my lenses a little less squeezed.

In fact I think cropping that 31mpx sensor was a mistake and medium format had a big chance to offer a big one up on 35mm with a microlensed sensor in 1.1 size, especially if they held to a good price.

I don't think you can underestimate how important higher iso is for a lot of work photographers who specialize in people. Higher iso on a medium format back, already working with a slight bellows factor and slower lenses makes a huge difference and unlike most of the iso tests we see on the forums, when we need higher iso, it's usually because the light levels have fallen and we're barely at the last point of getting the shot.



JR

Hi
I have heard that Phase will announce something in the fall of this year but nothing concrete. About the leaf shutter lenses I heard @ the PMA show in Brisbane that the 80 mm will be the first lens & will be at Photokina. Larger sensor MFD backs would not surprise me as it has been at least 3 years since the last sensor release from Kodax & Dalsa.
Thanks Denis

Denis,
AFIK Dalsa and Kodak have not developed any new sensors.
I've visited both their info on their websites and there is no mention of anything new.
But I could be wrong.
Cheers,
Willem.

N.B Did you shoot the "Dark" chocolate ad?

Hi
No we did not shoot them - we thought they were for a hair product...are they for chocolate? Are there any other makers of sensors?

Denis

Dennis,
I'm confused.
I wasn't revering to sensors.
Wether it was for hair or dark chocolate,to me it looked like one of your images?
Regards,
Willem.

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/business/IS...l?pq-path=12138
http://www.dalsa.com/sensors/products/DSC.asp

Nothing new on the horizon!

Hi
No we did not shoot them.
Denis

I doubt Kodak would make all their info public to end-users.
Look how successful Apple is keeping secrets from rabid fans.

Our request for better high ISO performance has been heard at least one year ago:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0706/07061401kodakhighsens.asp
Who knows IF and when this will ever make it into a professional product?

I think all we can really say is that they haven't "announced" any new sensors yet. I would be shocked and appalled if they haven't been hard at work on their next generation products for some time now. And they wouldn't announce these until development was practically done.

I tried the new AFDIII and P39+ combo, manual focus with lenses wide open is really, really hard. Live preview would make focusing a lot more doable. Shooting stopped down negates the DOF advantage of dMF, and spraying focus bracketed shots is just inefficient. The viewfinder is hardly bigger than the 1DS3 but much dimmer. I don't know how you guys focus honestly. With the new Phase 80mm f/2.8, I did focus and recompose an that totally results in the subject being blurred. That's one thing that really discouraged me about dMF, there are no outer focus points and manual focusing with accuracy is nigh impossible for my eyes.

I currently use the 1DS3 and live view for focusing with almost all my lenses, if you haven't tried it, it's a revelation. I can focus the 50mm f/1.0 in formerly impossible situations, where outer focus points would fail to lock due to lack of light.