Thanks Thierry, as always.

Dimensions: 27 x 19 x 7 cm (approx. 11 x 7.5 x 3")

Weight: slightly under 1.5 Kg (approx. 3.2 lbs.)

Thierry

Not yet Marc, but all relevant and important specs have been given here so far and won't change anymore.

Anyway, an "official" specs sheet will certainly come soon.
Please bear a bit with us and let us some time.

Thanks,
Thierry

As you know I am always looking for Sinar to integrate thier system

you new camera looks great helping the HY6 'problem' of a lack of superwide lens

what I am asking is if HY6 plated back go onto your P series view cameras yet without an adapter change

meaning that you system would therefore smoothly offer from supewide to view in a slick manner

S

Cambo SLW-81 adapter on a Cambo sliding back for Sinar 5X4

Alright, got it:

- an interface plate for the mount of a Sinar Hy6 back to be mounted on the Sinar sliding adapter is in preparation and will be available at Photokina.

Best regards,
Thierry

Rainer, Stefan,Thierry, & the Sinar team.....thank you guys and congratulations on the new camera intro

Really nice addition to the Sinar ensemble...........to have an optical platform that complements
the efficiency and the elegance of the brumbaer software and the Sinar hardware with its interchangeable mounts as well as the Sinar technical support (as well as Xposure, if working tethered......once shadings and color matrices are implemented in the software).

You are right in your observations that photographers can work through many inconveniences and obstacles when dealing with a different technology, often you actually forget these....... using the LCD like a videographer rather than composing on a ground glass.

For me, the important issue with new technologies (digital film) is not to change the archetypical relationship of the person and the tool..........in this case the act of composing a picture on a gridded groundglass with an upside down reversed image. Looking at a 645 image on a groundglass is not the same as a 4x5, but it is definitely different than reacting to a representation on an LCD screen (for many photographers this delineation simply may not matter)

Its great that Sinar acted in the market place instead of reacting to conversations and "features" dictated by other players in the market place.

This may not the camera for everyone....but it is the only one that provides all compositional tools of a traditional view camera along wiht a sliding back on a new optical platform that utilizes a high resolution digital capture medium.

To be able to incorporate tilt/swing with a sliding back in a wide angle camera system obviously involves physics and the resulting specific compromises made by Sinar may not be acceptable to all shooters.

However, the result of Rainer's collaboration in bringing this product to the market place is quite impressive.......

regards

Hi Rainer - that's a very importen point you are raising here - It could easily deserve it's own thread.

Unfortunately it's the naked truth, you will probably end op using an awful lot of time and to much money before you have a working solution that serves your own need and wishes - and sexy too

My own road too this solution was not as straight forward that I hoped it would be - I came from using an Arca Monolith and an Arca Misura with a full line of Rodenstocks - a wonderful system for shooting architecture with film, especially the Misura was great! I thought; well I just replace the filmholder with an Aptus 75 and here we go....

Then I discover that the optics is not that exceptional with the Digi back as on film, then I started to change the wides to Digitars, the files were now sharper end free of CA, with sharper I mean most of the time, because after working a couple of month I find out that practically it's almost impossible to get a complete sharp image, on the entier frame, from a 24 mm on a view camera - some times it was hard with the 35mm as well... The Arca's was simply not precise enough - a least in my hands

Then tested the Alpa XY, and discovered, that what I first thought as being too Swiss - tolerances of 1/100 of a mill, or is it 1/1000? does actually matters in a digital setup as this.

There is some talking about that you have to use a viewfinder or just the LCD for composing - you are not forced to that - I'm VERY depending on using a groundglass, I use a Hasselblad ArcBody viewing system, with groundglass, exchangeable fresnel's and the reflex finder - I'm not kidding when saying that I prefer this solution over the 4x5's on the Arca's it's both brighter and sharper, and no dark corners due to the 5 different fresnel's you just slides in.

Will my setup be perfect for everybody - No, not even close, we all have very different needs and wishes, Rainer you made stunning images with your Gottschalt camera, but after I hold your camera I was sure it was not for me - my XY will never make you happy due to the lack of "sliding adapter" - I like to have more than 25mm of shift - some can compose beautifully on the back's lcd - others will only shoot tethered........ the list goes on.

In a way, it's a bit depressing when you think about it - you are going to spend a hell lot of money, and on the same time not being completely sure if this is going to work for you in the long run.

In that perspective it's only positive that there is a new very competent looking system on the way - It seems indeed that you have found/created your dream Rainer - I have found mine - so after all there is hope

Very best,
Adam

hi adam,
i agree 100%.

2 questions ....:
which fresnels you are using ?
how much is the magnification of your ground glass viewer loupe ?

very best to you,-
( greatings to torben )

Excellent, Rainer, and Sinar. I have been investigating the architectural cameras and found them all wanting in some regard.

The most obvious deficit to me is lack of a sliding back to permit ground glass viewing. The Silvestri comes close, but is more limited in movements and a couple of users I have corresponded with have expressed concerns about quality control and precision with the Bicam.

One useful feature the Silvestri has is a bellows accessory to allow longer, board mounted lenses ( although only to 120mm or so ). This would be a great addition to the Sinar, especially if it would allow lenses up to the 300mm range. I do quite a bit of architecture, but also industrial photography and landscapes. One camera for multiple uses has a great appeal, for both cost and ease of transport.

I did all my film based architecture with a Sinar Norma, in 4x5 and 5x7. I still use it for personal work, and love the precision. I am sure this new camera will be a winner too.

Sinar ArTec PDF

http://www.image2output.com/user_resources...Sinar_Artec.pdf

Cheers,
Willem.

Thank you, Willem.
The additional images in the PDF very clearly answers the questions I've raised in this thread.

Yes,
it is certainly a hell of a camera.
I better start saving for that 28HR!
Cheers,
Willem.

N.B What I like is that I can that I can remove my eMotion 75 with the rotating adapter,from my Hy6 and mount it straight on the ArTec!

W O W !!! I presume you are talking about SINAR not LEAF Hy6! So if you can't do that man..... flush it down the toilet and I mean that seriously!

Where is the logic here, you pay so much money for product made by/for SINAR (hy6) and than you pay again for product made by SINAR (ArTec) to act happy just because you can remove your eMotion 75 with the rotating adapter, from my Hy6 and mount it straight on the ArTec!

Rethmeier, you are a great and respected photoapher, PLEASE DON'T ACT THAT HAPPY!!! You are not doing your self a favor, there is still a huge list of what SINAR needs to do/fix

PRETEND THIERRY DOESN'T EXIST, WHERE/WHO/WHAT IS SINAR

... he can't: he doesn't have it yet!




Willem is somebody enthusiastic about all nice things: let him be. Is it not nice to see people happy rather than complaining for all?


as ...?


Feuerthalen, Switzerland/a few dedicated, serious and motivated people at the service of their passion/the only manufacturer having a complete system for all needs, from cameras, over accessories and lenses, to MF digital backs.

Best regards,
Thierry

Therry I can't use my clutch and shift in to 5th gear with you you are a sweet guy, not the one responsible remember!

Looks like an amazing camera. Well done!
Denis

"Rethmeier, you are a great and respected photoapher"


Caracalla!

Thank's for the complement!

Now there is one thing I want for my Hy6!
A Zeiss PC-Mutar 1.4X .

The one that Hasselblad is releasing for the H-series!

Now that's a handy item!

Cheers,
Willem.

What is the width of the camera with the digital back behind the lens and the ground glass off to the side? It appears to be about 16" wide when capturing.

something like that.
of course you move it back to its 11" size if you take it down.

I am new to MFDB, just make my first experiences with the "M". Hence, from my very limitted understanding, the artec is a "dream-come true" tool for landscapes as well.

Did you shoot landscapes with it yet? If so, would you mind showing an example?

I very much like your philosophie concerning manufacturers Rainer, I experienced the same in the synthesizer world, if you know your tool, and provide competent feedback, you might just get what you want.

BIG congrats on such a successful cooperation with Sinar!

I mean.... WOW!

Dear Thierry

Just a thought - after it's no longer just a rumour that the sensor's are getting bigger....

Is it possible to use Schneider digitar's on the arTec ? since the current Rodenstocks HR will not leave that much room for movements in combination with a bigger sensor.

Very best,
adam

Dear Adam,

Thanks for the "thought". It is not planed yet, but why not. I shall feedback this to Sinar.

Best regards,
Thierry

sorry. wrong post. deleted.

Question:

if the arTec has the same DB Mont as the HY6,
can i use the filmbacks (6*4,5,6*6(in future)) from Franke&Heidecke on it ?


Adina ...

Hmmm.... Willem


For 3600euros I am breaking my head whether I just would not have preferred a Flexbody style solution that can control HC lenses.

It would have made for a smaller & lighter package.

Don't get me wrong I like the fact there is a TS solution for the H now but really... couldn't they just have taken the mount (both back & front), the electronics of the H & replace the mirror box with a bellow with movements?

I think I will have had more than one headache before I plunk down the 3600euros for the TS, I already have a headache because I am sure eventually I will.

Kudos to Sinar & Rainer for spec'ing and developing this new body. Looks like a very nice piece of equipment. I think there have been many interesting developments lately in MF/LF (the lines do seem to disappear) land.

I was thinking the same. A dedicated body would be much better, as it would not require the addition of a lens element and the disadvantages that brings (1.5x crop factor, loss of 1 stop of light, reduced image quality)

For better or worse, it's the added lens element that provides the image circle to allow shift. A new flexbody would require new lenses to achieve coverage for shift.

Oh true.. for the Hasselblad. I was thinking of the Hy6 platform and Willem's wish. Sorry for confusion.

Well, most HC lenses have been designed for 645 anyway so there is at least room for 5mm shift in all directions and probably even a bit more when used with a 48x36 sensor. The only lens with the shift problem will be the HC28.

Having said that I would be surprised if the 28 doesn't have a little bit of extra 'room' on the sides to allow a tiny bit of shift (at a price naturally)

So with a dedicated body, at least 5mm shift and tilt would have been feasible. With every HC lens from 35 up to 300mm

Dear Adina,

Theoretically yes: the 600x series 645 film magazine can be mounted to the arTec with the corresponding existing Hy6 adapter, (as well as the 6x6/6x4.45 magazine in preparation).

The point is that this 645 magazine needs to be electrically powered to assure the transport of the film.

In practice this means that the adapter needs some electronics and a battery is necessary as well. Technically feasible but no plans yet.

Best regards,
Thierry

I've just finished reading all 7 pages of this thread. I find several questions asking about components prices but no answers.

Did I miss it somewhere?
When will prices, USA, be available.

As a landscape shooter, I find the features of this camera to be right on target of what has been missing for digital. Just hope the pricing does not preclude it from the meager budget most landscape shooters have.

Thanks.

Prices will be published at Photokina, together with the presentation of the camera.
Expect it to be priced around the same range as existing models from other makers.

Best regards,
Thierry

That has to be one of the most off the wall statements I have ever heard. ALPA is here, now and has a huge following. Their cameras are precise, well made and second to none.

How in the world can ANYONE come to a conclusion such as this and make such a subjective statement?

Unbelievable.

Dear Michael,

I hereby apologize to you and all the Alpa,Horseman,Cambo users.

My statement was certainly out of order.

However for some people the arTec might be a better solution for their photography.

Happy shooting!

Regards,

Willem.

alpa has thrown down the gauntlet with regard to technical camera quality. sinar has taken up the gauntlet but it remains to be seen whether the quality of the artec can live up to the quality and durability of alpa cameras. it's a tall task.

I would not have much concerns concerning "quality" and "durability", given our long history and experience when manufacturing cameras.

The arTec will be (is) up to the task.

Best regards,
Thierry

I guess some interesting information concerning the Sinar arTec camera:

1. Availability

The arTec is confirmed to be available in October 2008, after the Photokina

2. Adaption

It is planed to have a Hasselblad V interface available as per 1st Q 2009

Best regards,
Thierry

Update

The first serie of 25 Sinar arTec cameras are in production since last week. Shipment of the first units to our distributors should start after Photokina.

Best regards,
Thierry

congratulations to SINAR.
honestly i was not expecting that the camera will ship so fast.

with the wide lenses available for this camera, how much real world shift/rise/fall can be got from them...ie the 23/28/35 lenses.

Thanks.

with the 28+35HR you can have shift of 12 - 13mm on a 36 x 48mm sensor. havent had the 23mm in my fingers, but what said thierry and what are saying the specs it should be the same.

Thank you Rainer.

Marc

Thierry,

I'm probably missing it - please advise where posting on price structure for the new camera and it's respective compliments can be found now that 'Kina in underway.

Thanks,
Jack

Jack,

Available Kits, lenses and accessories prices have in fact been published a while ago, before Photokina, here:

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=27715

Best regards,
Thierry

Thierry,

I just had no luck finding that thread even though I remembered posting on it - thanks for providing it.
At least now anyone reading this thread will get there as well.

Hope you're finding success at Photokina!
Jack

I was very excited by the Sinar Artec. As a photographer who has been shooting on 5x4 and more recently digital SLR, I am now making the slow decision to get a digital back/camera combination.

For me, at this stage, the Sinar Artec seems incomplete and not quite refined enough!

My issues with it are:

The tilt mechanism. With all the emphasis on accuracy with digital capture, it seems that the design of the tilt function needs to be further looked at. I feel that it should be geared or controlled in some other way than what it is now. The friction/tightening of it isn't accurate enough for me, I want to be able to adjust the tilt by tiny fractions. Also, the control knob is not in a use-friendly position and the extra locking pin seems a last minute addition. Speaking to the technician (I'm sorry, I forgot his name, of italian decent I believe) it was said that having this mechanism geared would add extra size to the camera, but I can't imagine it would greatly increase this.

I'm not a fan of the locking mechanisms for the geared shift and rise/fall. For me this is something that will get worse over time, using this friction method is something that is used on older 5x4 cameras and seems "chucked" in here. By the end of the day both of the Sinar's on display were no longer function properly.

The rotation of the back is very stiff, on an arca-swiss rotaslide the rotation is much smoother!!

This camera looks to have everything I am looking for. But, I just feel that the whole camera isn't finished enough. It feels, slightly, made up of old camera parts. After holding the ALPA Max, I really felt that it was something that would stand the test of time, the sleds for the movement are excellent. The artec, I felt needed some more time. Refine the mechanisms further, perhaps re-think how it smoothly it should all move and definitely the tilt needs to work better.

I want this camera badly, but not as it is as the moment.

Please, let me know what you think. As an outside observer, and user it is easy to make comments and I know that the designers work on this intensely over many months. Is there more time for adjustments, do you agree with me??? For a new camera, I want it to be on the next level and the most refined camera possible.

And I'd love to be able to use P45 on it soon!!

NCROCH,

I am a bit surprised by your judgement of the Sinar arTec: the feedback from ALL I have showed and who have touched the camera at our booth was exactly the opposite.

And I have seen none of the 2 cameras displayed not being functioning at the end of the day.

Best regards,
Thierry

NCROCH,
I am also wondering about your comment. You used it or have you seen it only on the Photokina? I used the camera for a while and all my experiences are totally different. The Tilt mechanism has a 100% lock on 0. All the mechanism are Sinar-like, but I think there is nobody doubting about the mechanical qualities of a Sinar P?
ALPA has a different concept. The shift movements are more exactly on the ALPA(screwing, not shifting), but very slow. I worked with both cameras and I think you will better do the same.
The Workflow of a totally new system is more important as the first impressions....