My Leica 28/2.0 and 24/2.8 are very sharp wide-open.

But they sit on a M8 rangefinder...

Peter

Leica made a pre-Photokina announcement to clear up some rumours:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/vbcms.php?ar...m_medium=E-Mail

New Zeiss ZE:
http://tinyurl.com/5hjtcf

Looks like the Little D-Lux 4 has an on shoe flash now... Nice.. Always wondered why they did not have that like the G9..:+}
The M8.2 looks quite nice also..:+]
Snook

Leica M8.2 @ http://www.dpreview.com/news/0809/08091503leica_m82.asp
for US $6,054 (though who knows where tomorrow the value of US$ is).
and Leica D-Lux4 @ US$ 1,054. Leica C-Lux3 @ US$750. both @
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0809/08091502...dlux4_clux3.asp
Rather expensive IMHO.

You mean this evening!

Thierry

I am in US so the simple answer would be - - -

1,000$ for the D-Lux 4 jeeeeeeez!! Looks like I will have to buy the panasonic,which is the same...:+{
Did they Bump up the megapixel for the M8.2? Did not see it anywhere. Hopefully they did.
Snook

Might follow Paul Schefz and go the 1DsMIII/M8.2 route...:+}

If mamiya/ phase do not come out with some kind of leafshutter I will probably jump ship here soon and go back to DSLR's....

And the debate has already begun in other forums: what differences are there between the Panasonic LX3 an the Leica Digilux 4 to justify the roughly 45% Leica price premium? Since lens quality is the main Leica virtue that I know of and the LX3 seems to have exactly the same Leica lens (along with same Panasonic sensor), I see no practical advantage, but I am open to insights!


Maybe James Russell needs to extend his "upgrade sticker" product line to include red dots!

That's what I understood/meant, Sean: until this evening in the US there is a long way to go, for the US$.



Best regards,
Thierry

These prices are getting out of hand - how on earth can a £800 (GBP) increase be justified for the M8.2 (current retail £3190, now £3990) - new shutter, new LCD protection, few tweaks to the firmware, new frame lines, a black dot instead of a white dot and no changes to the sensor? £6250 for the new Nocti?
Madness!

If Leica wants this kind of money, they need to improve their quality control. I have one lens in for focus adjustment (and it's not slight it's about 3 feet in back focus) and they have had it for months.

I love the little m-8, and in spite of it's quirkiness on wb when used right it does produce a very nice file.

Given that, I would never go out and travel the world with just one or two bodies, I'd want three minimum because it just doesn't seem that robust.

£4,000 for a new m8 does seem high and since they are all over new york in demo and slightly used for $4,000 dollars I think I'd take one step back and go with the original.

For the lenses, look at Zeiss, because even though the Leica lenses are like holding little jewels the price is shocking.

JR

Well, they have new line of lens out...amazing in every aspect.
(1). World’s fastest asphercial lens, the NOCTILUX-M 50 mm f/0.95 ASPH. @ US$11,232.00
(2). SUMMILUX-M 21 mm f / 1.4 ASPH @ US$ 7125.
(3). SUMMILUX-M 24 mm f / 1.4 ASPH @ US$ 7125.
(4). Elmar-M 24 MM F / 3.8 ASPH Lens @ US$2464.

I never even shot a M8 but did hear several people wanting a little more megapixel in it and they did not change that at all apparently...
Why would that be...:+}
To bad there is not way of switching out sensors... that way buying the camera would not hurt so bad, but having to upgrade to a whole new camera all the time stinks.. would be great to have an M8 and you could just get the sensor swapped out when needed...:+]
I have the D-lux 3 and paid a little more than the Panasonic price b/c I wanted the red dot, but no way would I pay 1000 for it.
Apparently after reading around the Panasonic (L3) ,which is the same thing, seems to be quite the little Pocket camera, even beating out the Fuji series "supposedly".
The panasonic even makes an off camera flash which is also much cheaper than the leica and also the same...
I find it strange that a lot of people are wanting high sync with flash but no one seems to be changing that. I thought canon would have tried to change it but apparently it is not possible with CMOS sensors?
I remember that the CCD sensor that one of the first canons had, did sync at 500/th...:+]
Is Leaf going to be the only option for shooting highsync with flash... Even my RZ is only 400/th and not good for a lot of moveemnt type shot's for me..
Well maybe all for another thread..
Thanks
Snook

It's a problem associated with a large focal plane shutter, not the sensor.



Well there is Sinar's Hy6 too, and of course you could use a Rollei 6008 with a Sinar or Hasselblad back, or even the Phase One P20 and some other Phase backs. All these make 1/1000 sync possible. The Hasselblad H series offers 1/800 too.

You are correct.. sorry I forgot about Hassleblad and Sinar...
Thanks
Snook

PS. Just a little frustrated as I already have Mamiya and Phase P30 and there seems to be no option there so far...
My Phase dealer seems to think they are going to announce the leafshutter lens here in Photokina..
I am sure the pricing will be real cheap so I can dig further into the bank account with no return on the money...at-least where I am at there is no return:+{
Snook

There are a lot of rumors about Leica.

One is the next upgrade will be to send your camera in for more than just a new lcd cover but a new sensor that might be full frame.

Whether that is true or not I don't know, but I like the idea of keeping the same camera and just upgrading it.

As far as the Leica slr everyone says that will eventually happen. Now if it happends in a Leica time frame or Canon time frame is another question that none of us can answer, though it does sound interesting.

Anway in regards to the M8 I hope the next sensor has higher iso, as anything over 400 on the leica is pretty noisy. It works but it looks like a snowstorm, though snowstorms can be pretty.

Still, you would think that the Leica which is really thought of as a PJ's camera would have higher iso capabilties.

Maybe the next one will.

JR

Well, you can pay $9000 and gain 4 or so stops
And the depth of field of a razor blade.

Edmund

The Zeis ZF 28/2.0 is very high on my list (I already own most of the others). It is now also (directly) available in Canon mount. These are small and very well built lenses but manual focus.

The Nikkor 28/1.4 also seems a very good lens but discontinued and currently only available for obscene prices. Might be nice when this comes as an AFS VR version. Nikons 1.4 lenses are long overdue for an update and would be a nice add-on for D3 & D700 users.

It's the shutter. Nikon D3 and D700 has a synce speed of 1/320th, which I think is the fastest among focal plane shutters.(And for this kind of synce speed we have to use better strobes like pro7 series or we'll have faded line in bottom of the image)

that title belongs to the nikon d70, d50
and d40 with sync speed up to 1/500th.

(the two cameras you mentioned officially
sync up to 1/250th. though some have
successfully pushed them to 1/320th.)

Together with the D1 & D1x which also do 1/500th. A pity Nikon wasn't able to pull that off with the D3,D300 & D700.

I may be wrong, but I think the D1x had an electronic shutter - the mechanical shutter was used at a fixed speed above a certain speed.

Edmund

Can be but I used to have one which I could perfectly use at 1/500th with all sorts of strobes.

Later lines like the D200 could only sync at 1/250th and had an electronic gimmick to be able to shoot with much faster speeds (up to 1/8000th'ish I believe) together with several of the Nikon system flashes (SB800 & SB600 but probably with the SB900 as well). They call it FP (Focal plane) flashing. Maybe you are thinking about these?

you are quite right about the d1 line-up (including the H).

and not only that (to further diverge from the OT) they
also supported a top speed to 1/16000.

oh I really didn't know that...should be that they are aps-c format so the shutter is much smaller.
1/320th synce speed doesnt need a push, just the triggering time should be short enough(use sync cord instead of wireless trigger, or su4 mode from on camera flash) and the flash duration should be short enough( my test is that it needs a less than 1/1000sec duration,t01)

the shutter size is different. Full Frame shutter is bigger than aps-c's, I don't expect FF camera to have a 1/500th sync speed like I wont expect MF has a 1/250th sync speed(do they?).

One thing i like about my old Leica M6 is that it aged with charm. there is a beautiful patina to it, all made by my working with it. if it would be digital, i'd love to have the electronics updated every two years or so, but the appearance should be kept. a camera for life, electronics for now....

I have a nice serial number too, which i am sure helps me a lot in making better pictures and makes me a happier photographer and makes the sun shine brighter

why is the only camera i ever cared for the Leica m6? all other cameras are just tools...

That 1/500s sync uses electronic shuttering, possible on the first generation older Sony 6MP CCD, but not on any of the newer SLR sensors, either CCD or CMOS. Entry level models like the D40 clearly do not have FP shutters capable of moving at that speed.

The Olympus E-1 also syncs in practice to about 1/320th with non-dedicated flash units, though again the official spec. is lower. Smaller formats have some natural advantage in this respect: look at the low maximum sync. speed of MF bodies that rely on FP shutters.

I think leica is about to reveal a new reflex option for us who work in medium format.. and I say option because one camera platform just doesn't cut it for most of us, and as much as I like the files of my bigger mf cameras I am looking forward to having something smaller yet able to produce great full spread ads..cropping allowed, bleed accounted for..and yes iso 800..
again, this might be wishful thinking but one can hope.

got an email today from german dealer network pcp with an invitation to leicas booth @ photokin, where they will show their newest secret weapon, codename Afrika (no kiddin')
it's supposed to be something totally new, new camera, new lenses, saviour of all our lost souls. unfortunately no specs or nothing.
so just a week and we all will know more...

codename is AFRika, some are suggesting A Fullframe R

I had a invitation in the mail some days ago. There was a VIP-Pass attached and it had a picture of the camera on it....

Looks like a normal 35mm digital to me....but we will see

This would explain why the M8.2 is such a poor example of updating and improving a camera. They are spending all of their time and money on this new camera.

That, of course, is something YOU should be able to tell US!

Rob C

Leica will be reporting live on this special forum from Photokina starting Monday evening 19.00 at Photokina, about the as yet unnanounced product news :
http://tinyurl.com/4bqj7e

The Leica Digital Forum has a link to flickr photo page that shows the new Leica S system.

37 megapixels

30x45 mm sensor

weatherproof seals

autofocus faster than Hassey

9 focal plane and leaf shutter lenses, including 24mm and 30mm tilt shift

records in DNG format

size between Canon 5D and EOS 1DS MK III

The technology from the S system will trickle down to other Leica systems. "The R is far from dead."

If this is all true, (if not someone went to alot of trouble) I hope this works for Leica. Seems like a big gamble. I think I still want a Sinar with WLF.

Best,

Mitchell

I want it I want it I want it.

anybody say "Contax replacement?"

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29782425@N08/...015170/sizes/l/

Wow! Looking good! Wonder what it will cost?

on the leica forum some suggest 30.000 euro

Yeah but who would buy it at that price and still have to buy a whole set of lenses. I'm hoping the price is more competitive with other digital backs.


Very curious to know about the ISO performance and AF. Really hoping the AF has more than 3 points too.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/22/leica-d...ship-s2-camera/

30.000 euro. by the time leica releases this camera and all the lenses, canon or nikon will have a camera that is 50megapixels shoots holographic video is powered by hydrogen cells and costs 3.000 euro.

you have to smile about the hasselblad quote. is hasselblad the benchmark.

you have to smile that leica talked to photographers. i wonder if they talked about price.

Well I'm sure that the 30,000 euro figure was presented by some fanboy who is only guessing. Let's wait to see what Leica announces tonight.

Give us the thing for around 15.000 and we can talk. ;-)

Some first rumors talked about a price slightly above 10.000 euros. If Leica intend to position this new system between MFD and 35FF something far from 10.000-15.000 euros is out of the question. But, we're talking about Leica so you never know... Best news for me is: "The R system is far from dead". Great.

shame its in 2:3 format, most MF pros are using 3:4 ratio, and no publication format fits 2:3, so they're going against the trend there. I hesitate to say its a legacy carry-over to match their traditional format, but could be regarded that way.

a 60mp Phase P65+ or 50mp H3 Hassie, in 3:4, is a lot bigger usable file than 37mp cropped down to ~33Mp in real world use. That's close to double in the P65 case - and double is a big difference, if it costs the same.

Great to see an MF sensor in what was 35mm packing though - we have lacked choice in the market place, so its very welcome
as will be the response Canon makes - I doubt for a second they will come back hard on this.

There will be an official Leica live feed broadcast to this thread, starting in one hour from now:
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/...okina-news.html

I'm bored with this more megapixel stuff. It's fine, allows an art director more cropping, or maybe the retoucher a little more data to work with, but there is nothing that amazing by this camera, other than it has a Leica logo.

I'm sure the lenses will be sharp and the build quality will be excellent, but if the m8 is any indication the lenses will need calibration and it will be 5 firmware updates until they get the color right.

But to be fair, I and others should wait to see what the official announcement is.

I spoke to a camera retailer the other day on a lighting purchase and mentioned the new announcements coming out at photokina. The salesperson said it's a shame that all of these cameras are so expensive, but what can a photographer do, their clients demand the very biggest and very best.

Well, I was kind of taken back by that because it's been three years since any client has asked me the file size or type of camera I use and even then by the time I explained it was obvious they really weren't that concerned.

So I asked the sales person, name me the client that demands more megapixels and she kind of stopped and said, well, uh I've heard it from a lot of photographers.

Well, I've heard that the moon is made of cheese but that doesn't make it so.

I'm not really dissing this camera and in a strange nostalgic way I hope it has success, but in reality, just reading that flicker announcement I don't see what this camera really does that is any different than what we presently have.

But, if Lecia is gong to have success with this camera, they need to hit a decent price point and most importantly they need to meet all of their delivery deadlines on lenses and software because if they don't it will just become an interesting footnote.

JR