This is the probably the most promising part for Leica's success. Phase dealers selling the S2.

Drool....

Great links. That eye piece is huge. With grip, that looks like a comfortable camera. The classic 4 buttons from Phase One on the back side for navigation. So with the Phamiya, should we call this a Pheica.

ok now all rational thought goes out the window....with the vertical grip this is the most beautiful camera i have ever seen.....20000 for body and lens should be realistic.....but summer 2009 is a long way off...a lot can happen till then....and a one point AF system does not sound very interesting...there i am trying to be rational again....

Eye piece does look large - hope that is also nice and bright - almost makes up for the single AF point.

never mind.

I had a question but figured it out.

This camera looks so nice, but sorry 20.000 is a deal breaker. Well take 4 lenses and you are where ? 35.000 ?

Take a Hasselblad and you have about the same price.

Hopefully the Leica has not the Hasselblad mirror slap.


Bernd

Looks like the leaf shutter lenses will go up to 1/500. Slightly disappointing (not that I'm lining up to buy one anyway )

See article (in German): http://www.fotomagazin.de/news/detail.php?...6&objectID=1896

"Dentists and Outgoing CEO's unite! Come to the front of the line -- do WE have a camera for YOU!"

echo +rental houses

Roll on the rumoured Nikon MX format camera.

Quentin

I'm thinking their ergonomics dept. got better between the S1 & S2...

The price is critical.

If it has the crop ability of the Nikon D3 -- the ability to use DX lenses on an FX camera in a crop mode -- so that you can use R lenses (with an adapter) on the Leica, as essentially a full-frame Leica R, allowing you to buy the MF lenses later, that would help a lot of people -- and it should be doable, unless there a problem with the lens mount that wouldn't allow an adapter. A crop mode would also help in the sense that you could buy a cheaper and older R as a disaster back-up camera, rather than buying two S2s.

The fact that it is weather-sealed could be significant for some shooters, especially those who do outdoor ocean and desert fashion/automotive shoots.

But I gotta bad feeling -- that the price is going to be exorbitant ($20,000 euros is exorbitant) and that ninety percent of their market could go with the new Nikon, which I don't believe is a rumor.

JC

Pah, this camera is for Batman only!

The design of this thing is stunning.

i am pretty sure that you cant use 35mm lenses for shorter distance between lens and mirror, whih has to be larger ona larger sensor.

According to this guy on the LUG there will be an adapter to use the R lenses on the S2.... If true then that's some good news. See below....

From: Charlie Chan

I met Dr Kaufmann at the Goodwood Revival motorsport meeting in the UK
on Friday and Saturday. He espied my DMR and 280/4 APO and came to
have a chat. I noticed his M8 and said how disappointed I was with the
shutter noise. He said he had a M8.2 and would I like to try it - very
quiet. He was a really nice guy and committed to Leica and their
cameras. We had a chat about future developments and said that the R10
is real and will be announced next fall. There will be an adapter in
the meantime for using R lenses on the new S mount, but this will come
later.

Charlie

1600iso will result in a 15MP file.

Lance Schad
Capture Integration - Miami/Atlanta
Direct: 305-534-5701 x1 | Cell: 305-394-3196
Capture Integration
lance@captureintegration.com

So is a CLEAN iso 800 a 30mpx file?

Thx.

JR

I'm wondering where Phase One is heading.

They seem to be all over the place....russian Hartblei lenses for the Phase One camera....65 MP for the top...and now selling Leica S2 as well ....to Wim Wenders (damn I was thinking he is going to shoot his next movie on a 5dMKII)

I dont get it!


@ Lance : If I walk into your shop next summer and I'm a fashion/portraitshooter, what will you sell me? A cheapo MamiyaPhase 30+ or a S2? (Don't get me wrong, just asking/curious)

As-we-get-it news is being posted to our website's front page: CaptureIntegration.com

Doug Peterson
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer
Personal Portfolio

Thanks Lance!
That's what I've expected. But... ISO1600 in 15MP are still very good (if the high ISO is really good).
Nevertheless the binning thing /scalable pixelsize and the upgradeable chip are the most interessting news to me personally amongst everything that has been announced the least weeks.

Curious about a few things...
It's smaller than a 1Ds & D3,
Will take R lenses,
Has a 30x45mm sensor,

How's that mirror going to fit?

Twice as fast as an H3D39 - 2fps?

Only 1 AF spot?

I think all of the info that is coming from Phase One is very positive.
Phase One is aligning themselves with existing manufacturers to enhance their existing and or new offerings and combining it with Phase One's knowledge/intellectual property and value added distribution channels.

Phase One is also not leaving any of their supported platforms (bodies) behind either. With Capture One Pro when released will have their Lens+ technology which does not only correct for CA/Purple Fringing (today), but will do lens geometry as well not just for Phase One/Mamiya lenses, but Hasselblad and Contax lenses as well (from what I understand from what was explained to me this morning)

As far as what system I will sell to you Heinrich if you walk into my office and are a fashion/portraitshooter next summer it will all depend on what is actually available at the time, your budget and what features you will need. So lets cross that bridge when we come to it.

More news out of Photokina cannot come quick enough!!!

Lance Schad
Capture Integration - Miami/Atlanta
Direct: 305-534-5701 x1 | Cell: 305-394-3196
Capture Integration
lance@captureintegration.com

Hey, I'm neither of those. Does that mean I can't have one ? Mind you at the quoted price it's going to be mostly be used to take pictures of Aunt Ethel and the cat by the said Dentist's and CEO's.

It's a pity that it's not going to be priced so that it's within reach of most people that want one. It's the best designed camera I've ever set my eyes on and Leica lenses are just simply the best.

Now if Nikon can make an MX that looks that good things could get really interesting.

Do you sometimes get the feeling that we're nearing that time where the business model of still photographers is more like filmmakers? Where nobody owns their own gear -- everything is rented for the job? Maybe we'd each own a 5DII for location scouting and talent casting, but the day before the job, everyone heads to TREC or FotoCare for the real camera?

With depreciation on this stuff so extreme, any BeanCounter would think you were nuts to buy one, especially if you could bill the rental. It's no fun to take a big hit. So buy with extreme care. I'd say, by the time these Leicas are shipping, and the bugs are worked out, we'll be reading about the NEXT photokina. So the day you actually take delivery on the S2, and get it in your hands, the next one will be announced, and your one-day old camera is worth pennies on the dollar, uh, Euro.

These people get their business models from AA and Drugs on the Playground. I recommend to everyone -- revolt against this practice of "announce one year, and ship the next", when the prices are so extreme. It starts with you. Draw up your own official-looking Contract and whip it out right before you sign your name on that check, and let the Contract state that they'll write you a check for the difference in what the camera is actually worth on the street, when the software is right, and the bugs are worked out. And then when they won't, then leave the boxes on the counter, and turn and walk away.

I second to that, by all means, and today more than ever, 20,000 euros is a lot of dough....

Whenever this thing hits the street, I'll gladly exchange my Mamiya P45+ for one. Good lenses and AF sound like a nice idea.

I don't antcipate that to happen too soon though. In fact, Leaf/Sinar and Hassy might decide that building a similar smaller sensor into their models allows them to break the $10K price barrier. And Sinar has some pretty nice lenses

Edmund

Yes. I was speaking a few weeks ago, at a dinner party, with a leasing agent for digital backs in NY and he explained to me that the prices are pretty much made, in his opinion, for the rental houses. They get a bulk discount and very attractive lease terms. This allows them to make their lease payment on each back with only 2 rentals a month or so - everything else is gravy. There is some sort of buy back or embargo period on the resale of those heavily used backs or the option of course to just trade up to the next latest and greatest. I've forgotten the details but basically, DBs priced not to own. And, those landscape shooters (dentists, former dentists, and the like, etc) who never make a dime on their work anyway but don't care because they already have a porsche AND a Harley.

lance,

wow.

lots of news. i didn't think medium format had it in them to make so many changes and deals.

new leicas, medium format backs with 1600 iso, new lenses, variable resolution sensors. wow.

then I stop and re read the press releases.

60mpx backs for $45,000 u.s. and the same cell phone lcd.

1,600 iso but it's only 15mpx. a 5ds2 has 21mpx at 1600 iso, sells for $3,000 and shoots high def video.

new medium format lenses but only two with leaf shutters and one made from old russian spy glass.

a new bigger than 35mm leica but 20.000 euro and we don't know the prices of the lenses yet.

a strategic alliance with microsoft.

at least we have value added service. whew!

so, as much as I hope this all works out for phase, leica, mamiya, bill gates and the ex-soviets, we won't know the real outcome until it is actually used by bill paying photographers.

that is if they have any money left to pay the bills.

wow.


big cooter

That would be very very welcome! Hoefully I will see it tomorrow...

I know when Sinar announced their new offerings people jumped all over poor Thierry for not providing all the details.

But we have no representative from Leica here to push on.... so come on Leica how can you invite all these people to a big splash photokina presentation and not even give us some simple facts like the ISO range of the new camera? Is it that far from being finished?

http://www.s.leica-camera.com/

They are certainly taking this seriously...

Quentin

Wow was that video introduction painful to watch. From the site it appears they are planning to send out a newsletter to anyone that signs up next year..... so probably the camera is a long ways off from being finished, though I'd like to hear otherwise.

although i would love a camera like this, i really dont quite know what its for.
i shoot advertsing only, but a lot of variety.
im sure this camera is good for someone, but i find i need two distinct types of cameras- slow, high quality cameras for when you need to do a deliberate studied shot, ie car shooting, complicated comps. these cameras need lots of MP, and theres no worries about shooting to a big screen.
and a waist finder is handy with these.
and then theres a need for a fast camera, for shooting people, or fast stuff, high iso. good to keep out the dirt, sand and water.

so i have an h1/DB and a 1dsmk3.

but i never find i need something in between.

maybe its a good fashion camera when shooting with flash? but it isnt quite a car, landscape, architecture, sports camera.

who here will really consider buying one? maybe im missing something?

paul

I just checked out your very nice website.. seems to me that this S2 camera would do it all for you.. not sure how big your h1 digital back is or really how good this new one is.. .. I am seeing this is a fast small camera with all the quality of my big slow medium format.. I stlll need a view camera so it won't replace my db..but for everything else this would be my ideal goto camera.

I've been reading a bunch of forums on this camera, and in one of them, there was a link to a magazine that had actually seen the camera, and referred to it as a "working prototype." So it's not far from being done...

JC

No, no, no. It's Porsche and a BMW. It's Corvette and a Harley.

JC

thanks paul. maybe you are right- the "one camera for all" idea.
i only have a leaf with 22mp, so obviously this will blow it away mp wise. but i was planning to get a used p45 asap (unless i get lured into something else).

there are many shots that i just couldnt live with out the canon. i really do need 5fps and i need a camera that has many focus points, and actually has water housings available for it. not to mention f1.2 50 and 85.
if i got a leica, maybe the quality would render the h1 not needed, but definately not the canon.
but i would miss the waist level finder of the h1.

the big thing that im sure this camera would really blow away the canon as far as im concerned is that it should have decent software and tethering. that is by far the worst aspect of the canon, completely crap software. hats off to leica to team up with a proven, professional software company.

paul

I was also thinking about updating my back...
I don't get as wet or muddy as you do but I am holding out that I can use some of my fast leica lenses on this and live with some fall off.. I heard an adapter is in the works..and I am still in the dark ages with manual focus lenses for all my cameras.. so we have
different issues..I am really pleased with the quality I have gotten from my dmr.. so I can't wait to see what this camera can do.

As a Leica user for many years I think this is awesome. However, with a hinted at price of 20,000 Euros for the body alone - OMG!!! I'm sure the lens prices will be astronomical also. Hopefully Leica has been paying attention to Mamiya and the ZD and this tempting morsel will be affordable for us mere mortals.

Cheering and booing, all at once. Leica has broken its stodgy mould and become the first camera company to smash out of the antiquated 35/MF paradigm. "Formats" are a thing of the past ( and have been for a while -- just nobody's had the balls to say so). The future is about systems, and the vision and ergonomics that accompany them.

Leica has hit the sweet-spot, imho, on the camera-size / file size chart. This camera could be a world beater, especially coupling Leica optics to a large sensor.

......but.......

Price??? I can own a second-hand 39MP MF system, with lenses, for about what the *body* is rumoured to be costing here?!?!?! F'getabouit.

And the lenses. Um, er, where are the zooms? TS lenses are nice, but who gives fuck. Really. Seriously. It's called a "view" camera. Goes on a tripod with a (now) dirt cheap MF back covering 4x5 in multiple frames. Costs so much less you can buy an investment bank with the change from the prices people are throwing around here.

For the other 99.5% of shooters who couldn't give rat's ass about T/S, where are the zooms? HELLO IN THERE. Zoooooooooooom lenses!!! They're these cool things where you can, like, totally change the focal length just by turning a ring, eh. It's like, so totally awesome. Fixed focal length, on the other hand, is like, so totally 1960.

Sharp, sure. Whatever. On a camera meant to compete with high-end 35mm Nikon and Canon, there MUST BE core zoom lenses. And fast ones at that.


And here's the kicker.......what if the rumours about Nikon's "MX" format are true? It'll deliver thrice the ISO performance, and a third the price, I bet. And it will actually be available for purchase in that nifty, here's-my-money-hand-me-my-camera-I-have -shoot-tomorrow kind of way.

with zoom lenses.


So, cheering and booing.

We live in interesting times.

- N.

... and camera controls, there seams to be an FPS-CS-OFF lever and the 4 Phase One buttons in the back, plus one dial in the back and one on top... this is the most bare dialed camera I have seen, makes my D300 look so PRO and sophisticated... @20K EU ??

another overpriced 3:2 slr. yawn.

If, in fact, it is priced in Euros, then, at today's rates, (not that the body is even finished; it's still balsa wood), then it would convert to:

$ 29,570.01 USD

and that's for the body alone. And extra for the floor mats.

Add three Leica lenses to that figure, and you've got a Second Mortgage. But oops, you're upside down in your house, so that means that a Second Mortgage is not available. Sorry.

So that sends you to Miami to join up with ScarFace, to raise the funds.

Gwitf,

You'll be making that much in a month once your Gwitf Autograph Softboxes hit the the shelves of Home Depot...

as far as i can see, its missing a dedicated af focus button .

i still havnt figured out how people can use the shutter button to focus on anything thats not dead center.

paul

More with the Canon than the Contax. A lot more, but some of that is just project specfic, though a lot of it is the Canons go to higher iso.

I don't see any dynamic range difference, but then again that's why God made foam core, and the color of the Canons is very good, the file holds up well.

I do wish it had less of an AA filter or whatever gives it a little less bite, but it's not so obvious that it can't be overcome with some sharpening.

I actually don't mind the Canons tethering software. it's a little disjointed but the previews are very nice and full screen and now running windows it tethers fast.

The thing about the Canon is it's inexpensive, which is kind of crazy to think of a $7,000 still camera as inexpensive, but looking at the last 4 or 5 new annoucements it is laughable inexpensive and you can buy it today . . . anywhere.

JR

that's the problem....the 5dmkII will do even better high iso and HD video for 2500.....that is just hard to beat....

Paul,

Do you really think it's going to blow away a P30+ and they are lowering the price of that back, probably to 12 grand or something. Put that on a H-1 and you saved at least $30,000 U.S. with lenses.

Now nobody knows what the Leica will be like, but do you really think that since it has a ccd it's going to have a clean iso above 400?

I like the looks of the Leica, but for the price and working every day, I don't know, I think I'd rather have a couple of 5d 2's and a p30 or A65, or even that blad with the p30 sensor.

In reality, none of the cameras announced will do everything, I guess that's asking too much.

The Leica if it was ready today still will probalby have low iso, the Phase p65 goes to 1600 but at 15mpx . . . whatever . . . the Leaf and the new sinar look interesting, but they also will probably not go to 800 iso real clean since they are ccd's and of all the new annoucements other than the 5d they all range from semi expensive to off the scale expensive.

So for me, I guess what I own will do everything I need other than shoot motion.

Now, if I could buy a 5dII right now I'd buy 2.



JR