I had the pleasure of testing this media early in June/July.

I did a lot of testing on the HP 9180 and found the results to be sublime for the contestable 8 ink set up. While making curves though for the shifts in composite colour greyscale printing you do notice things with the extra effort in adjustments for print neutrality. I have samples off Epson VM and they are that much better. I would like to see Canon prints on this too.

I did post the review for you to discover this new paper that is supposedly available now.
I've not found a better paper yet for both B&W and colour. Funny Hahnemuhle say it is designed as a B&W paper, but other than the less punchy side of other OBA enhanced media it has an excellent gamut and extended Dmax all around.

The mechanical properties are interesting too, but once again just as it is hard to describe image quality, the hand holding of a print is something you'll have to do yourselves.

I probably left out some details, so let me know what I can add over time.

http://www.neilsnape.com/HPR_Baryta_review.htm

Special thanks to Michael for posting this link in the news.

Thanks, Neil!!!

Looks like a great paper for the Z and GE. I'm looking forward to printing on it.

I'm curious what if any differences there are between PR Baryta and FA Baryta other than the latter having some OBA's? To me your descrption of the PR's surface sounds pretty similar to the FA version.

They are not at all the same. I don't really care for the FA much. I had samples sent to me but the surface is not what I think is ideal on the FA. The texture, stipple, glossiness are all very different.
Hahnemuhle do not have a similar surface yet in the other lines.
The paper base on PR Baryta is also different than FA B , being a yellower base more transparent, perhaps the pH is different too, (pH 8 on H PR .
The things I see similar are the top coating marks in the same way on both, the reflection density looks similar to when printed.
Problem with the gloss diff on FA B is reduced by a long shot on the new PR. Why or how I'm not sure. This being true on HP inks so prone to bronzing and gloss diff, all but eliminates these problems on Epson inks. That problem out of the way lets the print become so much closer to the ideal for inkjet prints for gallery display.

I haven't been able to find this in stock, anyone located a retailer selling this now?

Thanks heaps for the review Neil, very well done and xtremely informative!

Do you know where the paper can be bought from online? BH doesn't seem to have it yet on their site from what I could tell.

Thanks again.

Cheers,
Bernard

That is disappointing. Before I went on holidays the Hahnemuhle contact here in Paris told me they had already stocked the distributors in the end of July.
It might be best to ask the local Hahnemuhle rep in your region. You can contact the people here;

http://www.hahnemuehle.com/site/us/830/contact-persons.html

I still haven't tried it in roll format. I hope that the roll format doesn't have an edge curl problem. I do think it is the type of paper that D curls easily. It is only on 3" cores in any case.

Yes, as usual, thank you Neil.

Just when I thought I was done testing and buying papers! I spent about $2,000 testing 35 papers last winter.

I settled on the Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta in rolls. that was my second choice, behind the Epson Exhibition Fiber (in the US) which is not available in rolls. My 3rd choice would be the Harman Glossy FB Ai.

The only Matte Black paper that I still use is the Moab Entrada Bright White. I also use the Entrada Neutral a bit too. But I really do not mind the OBA's for my purposes - portfolio prints, etc. Nothing that really gets framed and goes behind glass for the long term.

Neil, I see your comments above about the comaprisons of the 2 Hahnemuhle papers. I know this is a loaded question, but given my existing choice of the Hahnemuhle FAB, and the ranking of the papers above, does the Photo Rag Baryta sound like a good choice for me? (and others who have been down this same road ...)

I guess I am going to have to buy some of the Photo Rag Baryta to test either way. With the new cameras, printers, etc., maybe I should just keep my head down and make images for a while!

Thanks!

Best,
Michael

Bernard, after reading Neil's review I searched several sites before finding it at fineartinkjetpaper.com.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us Neil.

Fred

Thanks for the comparison notes, Neil. Guess I'll have to try a sample of the new paper when it becomes more readily available.

Fred,

I didn't see the Photo Rag Baryta there. Is there a trick to finding it?

Try this link.

Fred

Am I missing it? These do not seem to be the ones; the specs indicate 315 GSM. None of the papers on the link seem to match.

When I checked, ShadesOfPaper didn't have it either; maybe it's not generally available yet.

Todd

That's FineArt Baryta. The review from Neil was about Photo Rag Baryta. Kind of confusing but two different products.

Hi Neil,

Thanks for the great input once again. Your review has really interested me in this paper. If you recall, I started a thread a while back about papers without OBAs. Now, after such a brief amount of time, it sounds like this may be the one I was looking for. We'll see. Like numerous other people in the US, I'm eagerly awaiting it showing up in stock here.

Kind Regards,

Mike

For US residents that are interested in the PRB, I contacted Hahnemuhle's US division and received a very prompt reply stating that it will become available for ordering by US dealers in late Sept. It was suggested that I pre-order now, but, since I'll probably want to play with a few samples before ordering more, I'll probably just wait until SOP has sample packs available, which hopefully will be soon after availability.

Kind Regards,

Mike

For those who care: I downloaded the profiles for H PR B for the 8850 and the 9180. Since someone told me Hahenmuhle recommend using the Photo Paper setting, I wanted to see what that would do. Sure enough, it restricts the ink limiting too much and the gamut suffers. On the 8850 (same printer as the 9180) it is not set to photo paper and the gamut is as expected.

The profile I put in the zip is for printing on Pro Satin which gives the best gamut of all.

For other inksets and brands I would say using settings for a paper like Exhibition Fibre, or Harman will be good.
Possibly the profiles for other Hahnemuhle Baryta are similar enough for use with this paper if you download them for your specific brand and model.

Wonder why the big discrepancy in prices between 36" and 44" rolls of this paper? A 36"x39' roll is about $200 and the 44" version is almost $350!

It's probably a typo, as the 44" roll is usually priced around $250. Check out any other seller of the Fine Art Baryta, like Shades of Paper. (You realize that it wasn't a link for the PRB, right?)

Mike

Has anybody dry mounted any of the Han Baryta papers? Any problems, does the nice surface quality survive?

Also, I assume one would use the Epson photo black ink, correct?

I mounted a few already with hinge mounts printed on sheet paper. I can't see any reason why it would hard. The paper is very paper like, not at all plastic, so tape, and glue sticks perfectly well. The surface as I said is quite scratch resistant, but more fragile in the sense of wet hands on the unprinted areas.
IF anyone knows a good online supplier of mounting materials that will ship to Europe please tell!
Yesterday I bought a roll of pH neutral mounting tape , Nescen filmoplast for 16.50 Euro>24.31$ US.

You might try Frame Destinations:

http://www.framedestination.com/Default.aspx

The owner is a photographer who started the place because he could not find mats in a 2:3 ratio. He posts online at one of the Yahoo groups sometimes - I forget which one, maybe Digital Arts? Seems like a pretty good guy.

He does USPS (US Postal Service), which is a relativly easy way to ship overseas for the sender. Not sure how good it is for the recipient.

Otherwise Light Impressions is the gold standard. A little more expensive:

http://www.lightimpressionsdirect.com/basicsearch.action

This is what it says about shipping:

For Alaska, Hawaii, and outside the Continental U.S., or if your order contains a truck ship item, do not use the chart above. Please call for rates.


Best,
Michael

Thanks Fred.

Cheers,
Bernard

Hi Michael & Crew

I Have plenty Of this Paper on order. It reminds Me of Silver rag with out the scheen level. Its a Nice Cotton rag Sheet..

I'll Post on the forum once it arrives OK!

Hope all Had a Nice weekend!

Cheers
Jim Doyle
http://www.shadesofpaper.com

Thank you for the in-depth review Neil, I had settled on the FA Baryta but was not happy knowing it used OBA's. I recently received a couple of boxes of Harman's Gloss Warmtone (OBA free) and like it very much for certain images, but for others that require more "tooth" I look forward to trying this new paper.

Dave

Thank you Jim, as always!

Now that the wife is back at work and son back in school, I can start printing again. Hard with everyone home for the summer.

Though I should probably get out and make images during Sept and Oct, before the grey doom and gloom set in for 6 months.

Best,
Michael

Neil, thanks for the review. I've been using the Harman papers exclusively since they appeared, before I used Hahnemuhle, but I've run into a problem with the larger sizes in that they refuse to lie flat when framed, ie they have "waves". I've used the 3M adhesive for dry mounting and the problem is still not completely solved. Admittedly I live in a fairly humid climate, but do you think the PR Baryta would be better in this respect?

I do actually. The new paper behaves as a true paper base which is not what I will say for Harman.
It has no memory on the sheet paper. I haven't used the roll format yet so I cannot say for sure. I can say if you hold it between your fingers and the humidity makes a wave, the humidity will disappear and the wave along with it. So there seems to be no memory effect at all. The paper does not dent like Harman either which is a big plus for handling.

I am mounting (hinge) the sheets with paper tape and there have been no problems at all, the media stays flat as can be. Even when printing dark zones the paper showed no buckling which I've seen on other Hahenmuhle papers of matte surface types.
I hope to see what it does in roll format this month.

Thanks. Yes, I had the dent problem also so I have to take great care with a finished print. Looking forward to PR Baryta when it's available.

Please post your impressions about rolls when you can. Thanks!

Jim

A question for Neil or any other user of the paper. Would you recommend the Epson PK black or Matte black with this paper?

Thanks
Paul C

It is a PK only paper. I tried it with forced MK but it just doesn't work. It gives an interesting effect but it should only be used for scratch and win lottery tickets!

Oh yes I even tried double printing a technique that Stephen Johnson told me about with Iris. With PK and double printing , strangely enough the solvents in the inks dissolve the bond on the first print layer making the 2X PK a floating layer not bound as well.

Thanks Neil.

Paul C

Neil,

I know its a bit OT, but do you have any references/links/etc. to the double printing technique. I've read articles referring to it, but never seen anything detailed about the process.

Thanks!

-Byron

Double printing is something that can be tried on any printer. Registration is going to be a challenge. some mark a precise place on the feeder and stop the page from being ejected on certain printers. I think the Iris worked this way. You left the page on the drum and simply ran a second black over the print.

Most of out inkjets though are hard to configure to reload the same job.

BTW I promised that after I had news and or tried the Baryta on a roll format printer I would report back:

There were zero problems for feed, tractor pizza wheel marks, roller marks on the back, compression in the way of pinch rollers, nothing at all.

The Z 3200 did have an issue with the GE on one pass. I don't know if that was the printer or the media.

There was a sort of raised area in the middle of one print looking like a water mark embedded or water that had swollen up about 5 cm wide by 2 cm wide, surface height difference maybe 0.5mm or less. I've not had any surface defects on sheet.

Handling of the roll paper is much easier than most FA photo type papers I've seen. It just doesn't kink and doesn't scratch much at all. As I said Hahenmuhle papers are best handled with gloves though as the unprinted areas are prone to picking up hand prints.
Since many other Baryta papers have some curled edges, this one is nice to see without problems and is extremely flat. There is zero risk of head strikes in normal humidity.

Hi Gang

Just a real quick FYI.. I Got rolls and 20 sheet boxes in today of Photo rag Baryta today

All pre orders will ship out on monday so if you are on that list Thank You..

Please keep me posted on likes or no likes.. This is the only way I can really tell what to keep in stock .

Cheers gang

Jim Doyle
http://www.shadesofpaper.com

Has anyone tried the Hanemuhlle PhotoRag Baryta with the Cone K-7 black and white inksets?

I am confused about the surface textures of the new Hahnemuhle Baryta Papers. Would somebody please check my assumptions...

Assumption #1: Fine Art Baryta has a mirror-finish, perfectly smooth gloss like old fashioned F photo paper that has been ferrotyped.

Assumption #2: Photo Rag Baryta has a slightly pebbly surface like old fashioned F photo paper that has NOT been ferrotyped, ie. like an Ansel Adams print.

PS...have there been any sightings of Photo Rag in the US?

I have prints made on Exhibition Fiber, Harman FB Al, FineArt Baryta and Photo Rag Baryta in front of me. Smoothest finish like old fashioned F photo paper that has been ferrotyped is Harman FB Al. Photo Rag Baryta and Exibition Fiber are next in line for texture and similar. Best way I can describe it is that Exhibition Fiber's texture is slightly larger than Photo Rag Baryta's but overall they look about equally "smooth". The Coarsest of the bunch is the FineArt Baryta. That's not to say it bad just that it has the most texture to my eye.

Yes Harman FA AL is very shiny, the closest to ferro-typed, but so much so that it is not ideal for inkjet printers. Harman has a lot , really a heavy hand of OBA as the paper backing is not that good of a base. Although I like Harman for it's look, the splendor wears off overtime and looks a bit too much, too shiny, too plastic like, and way too brightened.
I don't like the Hahnemuhle FA Baryta surface as it has too much eggshell dimples. PR Baryta though is the right combination of everything , shiny but not too much, cotton rag but very bright, no OBA, yet still white and neutral, lies flat but still has a paper feel, etc.
Epson Tradition is nice enough, I have yet to try the new HP Baryta, but for a premium non OEM paper that is or should be at the level of a ( European Epson certifiable print standard) media PR B is already one of the best in this league. Digigraphie

Actually Fine Art Baryta has that pebbly, eggshell surface like some luster papers although not as pronounced.

Photo Rag Baryta looks very similar to regular Photo Rag as far as paper texture goes, and the surface is what I'd call medium gloss. Not as smooth or glossy as the Harman paper which from my experience is the smoothest/glossiest of the bunch.

I got a 17" roll and a box of 8.5x11 from Shades of Paper a couple weeks ago, but I don't know if they still have stock now or have sold out.

can anyone point me to a downloadable good Photo Rag Baryta profile for an Epson 9800?

Hahnemuhle in their infinite wisdom seem not to have bothered to make one for the best selling wide format inkjet printer out there...

I emailed Hahn about getting a Photo Rag Baryta profile for the 9800----apparently they are working on it. Per email response to me, the 9800 they normally have access to---is unavailable.....

I'll probably have the ColorMunki in hand before they get something online to download....

The CM on this paper works just fine. I did use i1 PRo and PM for the profile in the review though.

IF there are profiles for FA Baryta on the 9800 they should be fine exception being the white point of media. The coating is quite similar so I don't expect any surprises there. That said the other day one of my students tried a Hahnemuhle paper and their profile and it was not goo at all , the soft proof showed the results beforehand but we couldn't believe the print would really be that bad.

well, they are shooting themselves in the foot on this one.
I'm certainly not ordering or trying any till I have a professional factory profile, and meanwhile their competitors get my (not insubstantial) business....

Maybe it's just a little mom & pop outfit. Check the headquarters at "37586 Dassel" on maps.google.com.

if anyone has a good profile for this on 9800, then please PM me, and I'd be very grateful.

silly company not putting that up for download, I agree.

I am surprised they don't have ANY profiles for the x800 series. You know they all use the same head well not the 3800. Are there any for the 4800, or 7800?

They have the FineArt Baryta profiles for the 7800 but not the Photo Rag Baryta profiles. Photo Rag Baryta is there for the 4800 though.