Hi guys,

Apparently there is another HP sale going on in Toronto. Mondrian-Hall sells Z3100 (24”) for $2,098 and the 44” beast for $3,448. Not as attractive as in early May but still quite good IMHO. I bought one from Kevin Yu (905-738-4255 ext.2235). I’m not sure if they ship across the border but you can always ask.

All the best,

Vlad3

Considering what you get with the 3100 it's a fair deal more interesting than other equivalent printers.

That said Photokina is in two weeks, and all brands will be competing for keeping or increasing their user base. Not knowing the inventory on such printers is the only risk there could be for that price. I am sure that Photokina will have it's repercussion on the market for future and current products from all brands.

Wait two weeks. The reds will get better. Much better.

ahhhhhhh.... sounds like some inside knowledge....

Well, I think you can wait until Photokina opens and then decide. The sale at Mondrian-Hall ends on September 30.

I'm not in the market for a new LF printer. I've had the Z3100 for about 16 months and I'm very happy with it. Its doing everything I need it to do.

There's nothing to say that any upgrades wouldn't be possible as options on the existing user base.
That was at least the intention of the Z platform when launched. No idea if marketing will make good on this or not. When the Z came out it was a milestone printer. The other printers were already very good being the 7800+9800, and the released Canon 5000. Since the announcements have been as expected smaller and smaller incremental quality increases. Epson of course announced a spectro in the printer and even though they said they don't need additional primaries, they indeed are doing just that. Rather good news, as with both the additional inks and a spectro will certainly put Epson right back up in the top class for IQ and features. Canon fixed their inkset not so long after release. Epson upgraded to a better inkset. Both Epson and Canon do force you to replace your printers to take advantage of these benefits. Will HP be the odd one?
They are not the type of company to be left out of the incremental IQ, yet they have surprised us before in different ways of thinking (R&D guys just to avoid QA and tech support rages).
I will be going to Photokina. I'm open to any surprises!

Upgrade not possible. Sorry, can't say more.

Can't get much better than perfect. Maybe faster, although I have no need for more speed for my work.

I would say if you can get a z3100 44" for $3500, go for it. That's a heck of a deal. I got mine for $5,200 after $1000 rebate.

Ouch then it's wide open for users to decide where they will go.
Not that it is different for any other maker but since they are all going to play that game then HP would want to exceed the others by a long shot if they want to have new entries, and upgrading clients.

There are gaps in HP's product line that could be filled with Z3100, Z6100, B9180 technology and improvements upon them like an even wider gamut ink. The Z3100 isn't overshadowed by its competitors yet.

A 17" with precise sheet feeding, building on B9180 technology and a Z3100 or improved upon inkset. A 60" with Z3100 inkset and Z6100 heads. Then another year to replace the 24" and 44" Z3100/Z2100 with faster models = Z6100 heads. Some paper transport issues/limitations fixed in them too.

For most of us it is still a guess ten days before the Photokina.


Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

[quote=Ernst Dinkla,Sep 15 2008, 10:27 AM]
There are gaps in HP's product line that could be filled with Z3100, Z6100, B9180 technology and improvements upon them like an even wider gamut ink. The Z3100 isn't overshadowed by its competitors yet.

A 17" with precise sheet feeding, building on B9180 technology and a Z3100 or improved upon inkset. A 60" with Z3100 inkset and Z6100 heads. Then another year to replace the 24" and 44" Z3100/Z2100 with faster models = Z6100 heads. Some paper transport issues/limitations fixed in them too.

For most of us it is still a guess ten days before the Photokina.
Ernst Dinkla

With the bronzing of the 9180 and gloss diff, the HP pigments today do not make a top line B&W on photo media without the use of gloss enhancer. Colour is acceptable, but on par with UC not K3 Epson, nor Canon x100 series inks.
So either they make the inks much better avoiding GE (GE has it's own problems/disadvantages) or they will loose their entry into pigments photo printers.
They need vacuum feed and thick paper support in the Z, take up spools, software driver updates that actually work, and greatly improve the QA.
I would bet on certain things listed above , others we'll see.
Like I said surprise us and we'll be delighted.
Yesterday, another rattle your bones news on the stock market, brought a note on Cramer's reports that HP will let go 25000 people. Hope they are not in the printer divisions.

[quote=neil snape,Sep 16 2008, 02:18 AM]
[quote=Ernst Dinkla,Sep 15 2008, 10:27 AM]

Yesterday, another rattle your bones news on the stock market, brought a note on Cramer's reports that HP will let go 25000 people. Hope they are not in the printer divisions.

[/quote]

Wouldn't worry. Looks like the cuts are coming out of EDS:

http://news.wired.com/dynamic/stories/H/HP...-09-15-19-54-42

[quote=neil snape,Sep 16 2008, 09:18 AM]
[quote=Ernst Dinkla,Sep 15 2008, 10:27 AM]
There are gaps in HP's product line that could be filled with Z3100, Z6100, B9180 technology and improvements upon them like an even wider gamut ink. The Z3100 isn't overshadowed by its competitors yet.

A 17" with precise sheet feeding, building on B9180 technology and a Z3100 or improved upon inkset. A 60" with Z3100 inkset and Z6100 heads. Then another year to replace the 24" and 44" Z3100/Z2100 with faster models = Z6100 heads. Some paper transport issues/limitations fixed in them too.

For most of us it is still a guess ten days before the Photokina.
Ernst Dinkla

With the bronzing of the 9180 and gloss diff, the HP pigments today do not make a top line B&W on photo media without the use of gloss enhancer. Colour is acceptable, but on par with UC not K3 Epson, nor Canon x100 series inks.
So either they make the inks much better avoiding GE (GE has it's own problems/disadvantages) or they will loose their entry into pigments photo printers.
They need vacuum feed and thick paper support in the Z, take up spools, software driver updates that actually work, and greatly improve the QA.
I would bet on certain things listed above , others we'll see.
Like I said surprise us and we'll be delighted.
Yesterday, another rattle your bones news on the stock market, brought a note on Cramer's reports that HP will let go 25000 people. Hope they are not in the printer divisions.

[/quote]

Neil,

That's more or less the route I was thinking of too. Whether they should drop GE in that process is something I'm not so sure about but it allows another channel for an extra hue :-) You once mentioned that HP had some new color technology up their sleeves, could be the time to introduce that too.

The paper transport limitations exist and can be solved with new designs but it would be quite a design change and I will be surprised when they introduce them with successors of the Z3100/Z2100 on this Photokina, within two years after the first Z model introduction. The real competition that started two years ago may however require faster model changes.

With software I'm a bit conservative. Used to its flaws right now and more afraid of what it could become next time :-) The underlying software technology isn't the real problem: color management is alright, the extrapolation, dithering, weaving alright, printer maintenance aspects alright. All what is laid on top of that like the interfacing with other applications is what creates my headaches. A banner mode for roll paper is what I really miss. Part of the trouble is the hermetic control HP likes to have on the communications between the printer, the driver (and HP itself). Something of that is reflected in its websites too. I think it would need a small revolution in the HP R&D departments before that is changed. There was talk on Slashdot that HP might bring its own OS system one day (Linux related of course). Wonder what that would look like.

It seems HP cuts jobs in the US mainly and not graphic arts related ones. Former EDS staff will be sacked the BBC says. The people they intended to use in the technology service market versus IBM. The next ten year (US) economy forecast has changed over the last year and is changing every minute now, to put it mildly. HP's revenue is already 2/3 from outside the US. Their global graphic arts market strategy seems to work very well.


Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

Looks like I made the wrong guess. In the list of products present on the HP Photokina 2008 booth there is no mention of Z3100 or Z2100 printers while the Z6100 and B9180 get a place there. Looks like we get at least successors for the Z3100 and possibly for the Z2100. There's also a teaser about more red in the HP Photokina pages. More will be announced tomorrow.

http://h10088.www1.hp.com/cda/gap/display/...al=photfin#main


Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

[quote=Ernst Dinkla,Sep 22 2008, 12:12 PM]
Looks like I made the wrong guess. In the list of products present on the HP Photokina 2008 booth there is no mention of Z3100 or Z2100 printers while the Z6100 and B9180 get a place there. Looks like we get at least successors for the Z3100 and possibly for the Z2100. There's also a teaser about more red in the HP Photokina pages. More will be announced tomorrow.

http://h10088.www1.hp.com/cda/gap/display/...al=photfin#main


It'll take a lot more than just adding some red to make headlines I'm afraid.
Seeing red though is what current user base will see if they don't make a decent upgrade kit available to the new inkset.

Are you going to Photokina Ernst?

[quote=neil snape,Sep 22 2008, 12:38 PM]
[quote=Ernst Dinkla,Sep 22 2008, 12:12 PM]
Looks like I made the wrong guess. In the list of products present on the HP Photokina 2008 booth there is no mention of Z3100 or Z2100 printers while the Z6100 and B9180 get a place there. Looks like we get at least successors for the Z3100 and possibly for the Z2100. There's also a teaser about more red in the HP Photokina pages. More will be announced tomorrow.

http://h10088.www1.hp.com/cda/gap/display/...al=photfin#main
It'll take a lot more than just adding some red to make headlines I'm afraid.
Seeing red though is what current user base will see if they don't make a decent upgrade kit available to the new inkset.

Are you going to Photokina Ernst?

[/quote]

Yes, Neil.


Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/