http://www.linhof.de/download/linhof_news_08_d.pdf

Without back-shifting (bad)

Available for lenses (good). Sinar should update the ArTec with this kind of lenses too...

Very good for owners of Leaf AFi, Sinar Hy6 and Rollei 6008...

PdF

Available for lenses (good).

Available for ROLLEI (!!!) lenses. (good)

back has vertical shift apparently

not sure how it will do with the new 23 rodenstock - says min focus is 20mm with recessed board but looks as if bed my intrude?

the distance of 20mm is from the board to the back, not from the end of the lens to the back!
Also there is a back shifting! Vertical in the camera and horizontal in the rapid change Adapter slide(002765)

yes, i do understand the concept of flange focal distance

as linhof indicates it has a 120mm bed, i merely question if the front of the camera will not intrude into a vertical shot with a lens as wide as the new 23 rodenstock when used with a 36x48 sensor back

rapid change adapter "shift" is not really the same as back shift, although with the purchase of this accessory some rear shift can be possible, how much i wouldn't know (7-8mm?)

the 23mm is a retrofocal lens, so it will be possible to use it with shift.
I don`t see why the back shifting with the sliding adapter (I used the sinar artec and the sliding tool is fantastic, I can`t imagin to work without it) isn`t the same as a back shift?
On the camera will fit a 6x9cm film, so the back is great enough...

think about a 65 on a master technika 4x5, you have to drop the bed or it shows up in the frame.
i'd be surprised if rear rise is possible using the 23 in vertical orientation.

a sliding back, while fantastic and wonderful, is not the same as a rear standard that has horizontal shift - it gives very limited shift capability. if this is not a problem for you that's great.
also it is a somewhat large and expensive accessory. and while i'm not sure about the linhof, most accsy slinding backs displace the rear gg several mm, making wide lenses harder to use.

without having seen either in person the sinar seems better suited for architecture.

architecure mostly needs verical shift, so I don´t see that this is a problem. The horizontal shift on the sinar is 20mm with the sliding back, that is enough for a 48x37 chip.

looks nice to me, as far i see the announcent. i worked in my filmd days with linhof cameras, had a technikardan and a technorama,- both have been great cameras, they really know to make good engineered cameras.
which i dont like s in the techno concept is, that it looks as there can not be a defined infinty point for each lens, a detail which makes architecture shooting much more comfortable as if one has to adjust focus of each shot on groundglas.

thanks for the diagram

that's the 35 - does the 23 have the same flange focal distance?

vertical shift includes rear rise, which is very useful for interiors

with the sinar the sliding back is part of the camera, so the camera itself will not limit the amount of rear shift, nor will it displace the gg limiting wide angle lens use

i have not used either camera nor touched them
if you have specs that show my concerns are wrong please tell me

does the linhof sliding back keep the min distance (20mm) the same as the when using the techno without the sliding back? or does it make the min distance somewhat longer?

in vertical postition, how much rear rise is possible with the rodenstock 23mm lens when used with a 48x37 chip before the bed shows in the frame ?

the linhof can use film (up to 6x9cm )so, like the Sinar, the sliding back can shift. The sliding back has the same focus distance (we asked Linhof).

The most important difference is the focus concept. (See Rainers post)
And if you really need to rise the back( I use it only in 1 of 1000 pct.) turn the camera..(I have to do the same with my 13x18 Technika)

so your answer then is yes, the bed does intrude into the frame and the camera must be turned 90deg to avoid this.

i use rear rise in interiors maybe 30-40% of the time.
this camera won't work for me if i have to turn the camera to use it with wide lenses.

i've never questioned that it is possible to shift suing the accsy linhof back.
my question is how much shift is possible compared to the sinar (whose back is integral to the camera). either we are having a language problem or i am not explaining myself well.

can someone else explain why putting a sliding back on the linhof techno is not the same as having a camera with rear shift capabilities please?

the answer is: I don`t know exactly how many mm you can shift down...
the 23mm doesn`t exist yet, so it is difficult...
and with the sliding back I think there is a language problem.
I would prefer spanish or German, my english is not really good...

If you are working in interiors I can recommand the Sinar. Focussing on groundglass is difficult and 20mm downshift will be enough.
I made two jobs with the Sinar and I was very happy.
The sliding back is necessary(i.m.O), so I think to compare the two cameras you must have the sliding back on the linhof.

i fear we'd have more difficulty if i tried my german ...

thanks for your input, i'm looking forward to seeing both cameras

i will see it on thursday for jumping one day to photokina ...
( first time in my life )

hi Michael,

it DOES exist and we have a 23mm at our booth, on the arTec. I can tell that this is a jewel of a lens: this lens has more resolution than the current 28mm HR

- min. 80 lp/mm resolution at the edge of the image circle
- 200 lp/mm resolution in the centre
- 70mm image circle full open
- no visible distortion from the few tests I could see

Best regards,
Thierry

from what I could understand, I have the feeling that the 2 of you actually agree a 100%!

If you need a translator, am at your disposal:



Best regards,
Thierry

The 23 will come, but I thought it is availible I.Q 2009 ??
What a pitty that I can`t go with Rainer to the Photokina...

With the 23 and the Artec for the first time I can see no reason for architectural photographers to use film...

thanks thierry, i bet we do

i hope to see the camera in ny as soon as it's available

my guess is that Rainer (and you) will love this 23 lens: Rodenstock gives exactly the same shift ways as for the 28mm HR, in their data sheet. And we know that those given shifts for the 28 HR are very conservative. And by roughly judging some files I can say that the quality is at least as good as with the 28.

More tomorrow, when Rainer has seen it.

Best regards,
Thierry

I'm also going to the Photokina on thursday (tomorrow). I hope I will see Rainer and Thierry !

PdF

i will arrive around 12:30 at sinar booth....
see you there.

Note the AFi-II back and the 23mm Digaron.

Yair