Here's a link to the list of new or improved features of Photoshop CS4.

I guess we'll need a bit more details than this list can provide.

http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/compare/?sdid=DOQHR

Some items sound interesting like the better handling of the canvas area, or the enhanced retouching features (but what are they?).

Also the "adjustments panel for live, nondestructive adjustment".

If you have a link that gives more detail to this list of features in the link, please post it here.

The adjustments panel is basically a quick way to add adjustment layers. Choose Levels (for example), adjust the sliders and you will see an adjustment layer added and no 'OK' button. It bypasses the modal nature of many of PS's dialog boxes.

It's not an earth shattering feature but it's a neat and somewhat more intuitive way to work. In fact CS4 has few 'showcase' features like previous versions but overall it's a lot more refined. Using the GPU makes the screen draw much more speedily making the app feel more responsive.

Thanks for the link. But what is a "fluid user experience"?
I'm not sure I'd like that, even in the privacy of my own home.

I hope that trial version will be available for download soon... I'm already dying of curiosity...

Video walk-throughs of new features here: CS4 in Action

It looks as though they've taken a leaf from Lightroom as to screen layout. Does anyone who's worked with the beta know whether the right-hand panel can be minimized or toggled on/off? In Lightroom there's that little triangle on the right edge to hide/show the edit panes. Call me old-fashioned but I have a 4:3 aspect ratio display and don't have any particularly desire to switch to something wider.

Appears to be a Mac version of Photoshop, looking at the store

I thought the Mac version wasn't to be part of the release from what I remember a few months ago.

bob

It's just that the Mac version is 32 bit, not 64 bit like the Windows Vista version (not sure about XP). Mac users have to wait for CS5 for 64 bit. At least that's my understanding.

Adobe's answer to me on XP 64 bit was that CS4 should work, but will not be supported, only Vista 64 bit.

If it installs like lightroom 2.0 64 bit, it was only a matter of finding the 64 bit installer and running it.

So far I have not had any issues with Lightroom 2.0 with XP 64 bit, but my use has been limited.

Paul C

Was layer alignment in the base version of CS3?

Looks like pano stitching should be even better with this version.

64bit support + 360 degree panos (anyone remember ipix??? i'm sitting on nearly $1500 of unused keys ) . . . I'm in!

Oh, hell. If I upgrade it really needs to be to a new 64bit setup with oodles of memory.

Grumble.

I haven't seen a compelling reason yet. I'll keep looking though.

I'm a PS CS3 and Lightroom 2 user and right now I'm more looking forward to them fixing the bugs in LR2. I know RC for 2.1 is available but that doesn't address everything.

Sure hope PS CS4 has fewer bugs than LR2.

I will need to look more in details, but as a Mac user I see no compelling reason to upgrade to Photoshop CS4 as of now.

On the other hand Dreamwaver of InDesign might include some interesting new stuff that might justify a global upgrade to CS4 suite.

Cheers,
Bernard

I got one word. Camera RAW Adjustment Brush.

OK, how bout CameraRAWAdjustmentBrush.

http://www.teddillard.com/2008/09/cs4-came...ment-brush.html

I've been testing CS4 and it never ocured to me that CS4 was like LR in that respect. Probably as I use a second monitor and with laptop I prefer to have panels displayed or tabbed out of sight altogether. No little triangles.
How the interface works is quite subtle and also changes depending on screen mode and how you place your panels/pallettes against the sides. You can set it up to work how you like.
It's much better than CS3, especially on the Mac as you don't see through to desktop anymore [optional if you want old faffy interface], but the new interface is implemented slightly better on PC, as it is more coherent and uses less vertical real estate.
Therte have been a lot of moans about new interface, from those who haven't used it, but it is
Is it worth upgrading? All a matter of priorities, if new features help your workflow then cough up. Though as many of the improvements are not so in your face, it's not until you use the older version you realise how much better it is. I've not used CS3 for work since June.
Bridge CS4 is worth upgrade money on its own, it's sooooo much better. I've barely used LR of late. Not to mention how good ACR5 is.

Why as a Mac user is it less compelling? The 64 bit difference [the only fundamental difference between platforms] will be relevent to very few people .

Bridge CS4!

For those of us already using Lightroom 2.x as our main editor - there is not a whole lot to offer, as most of the changes were already given to us in LR. However, there are some neat things that were included such as content aware resizing. I saw videos of this years ago, and thought it would be really fun to try on some shots. Now I'll get to check it out!

I'm still thinking the cost of the PS CS4 upgrade will go towards the 5D Mark II.

Once the bugs are out of LR 2 I think CS3 may suffice for when I need to do pixel tweaking. The CS4 improvements may be nice but I didn't see much yet that improves my pixel manipulation.

Time will tell though. I am a tech junkie.

It doesn't have to be a load of new features.

A really well thought-out improvement in terms of maturity is also good.

But, honestly, I haven't found so much wrong with CS3 so far.

Except probably the navigation through the image using the track ball is impossible with larger files: too much delay (I have a modern system with enough RAM, so there may be some advantages in that CS4 promise of improved navigation).

jjj's hint regarding Bridge CS4 is worth taking into account. I use Bridge, and I like it.


Test driving CS4 is surely a good thing, but if I remember right, I always read about problems when people tried to install the purchased version after using the trial. Cannot tell, though, if they committed pilot error, or if the fault was in the trial version.

OK, so you are telling me I should spend 349 US$ of my hard earned cash to buy a software not delivering the feature I was expecting most on the ground that most of my fellow photographers don't need this feature?

I deal with very large files on a regular basis (last one was 6GB last week), and 64 bits would be meaningful for me.

I would have considered buying CS4 had is delivered enough value even without 64 bits, but my first overview of the announcement doesn't mention any single aspect I would beneft from.

The only thing is perhaps better Dreamwaver/PS integration, but I don't think it is worth 349 US$ for me.

Cheers,
Bernard

Thanks for that link.

Bernard:
CS4 includes a new focus bracketing capability for extending depth of field by stacking and blending multiple photos that have sharp focus in different areas. If it's well implemented, this should be very useful. I have Helicon Focus and it works well. Most of the other changes relevant to photographers seem to workflow related but I suspect you aren't having workflow issues so probably no big deal. There are somewhat more detailed descriptions of the new stuff on Adobe's web site.

On the 64bit issue..........

I use Vista Ultimate 64bit.

I have 8gb RAM.

How much more RAM will CS4 be able to see/address than CS3?

Any serious improvement would make it a must for me.

Thanks.

D.

Thanks.

I also do have Helicon Focus already... and often do it by hand also, which can indeed be time consuming.

So yes, it could be useful to have that in PS CS4 if it is well implemented.

Cheers,
Bernard

There are a few things I think would be usefull;

Focus bracketing/blending (mentioned a couple of posts before)
Better zooming (no longer you have to be at an even % to know for sure what you are looking at)
Better canvas handling (which comes in handy now & than)

Besides that I see few reasons to upgrade to CS4 maybe there are but sofar I haven't seen them. I think I will wait until CS5 for 64bit on the Mac. I have been waiting for CS3 to be able to use PS on my Intel Mac. I had to run bootcamp with XP and use CS2 to be able to get some decent performance and now Mac users have to wait again for the next version of PS to get the same kind of performance as PC users?

Is this a trend or what?

If Adobe hasn't messed up. ;-) All of it. Or let's say close to all. (because you need some for the system)

I don't like most of the stuff, but love the 64bit. I'm running a a workstation with 16gb. So CS4 should be a lot faster handling larger pano files.

There's a nice, to the point write up by Martin Evening about the new photo-centric features on Photoshop News:

http://photoshopnews.com/feature-stories/w...martin-evening/

As for the lack of 64 bit support on the Mac, part of the blame has to go to Apple for pulling the plug under Adobe about two years back. At least we have Lightroom running 64 bit.

How many here managed to watch the Live Release between 9:00 and 10:00 yesterday morning?

I registered for it a bit over a week ago and fortunately I remembered that I wanted to watch it at about 9:05 and scurried to get my laptop open to the feed. They had a few high end web and graphics professionals highlighting some of the newer features with the host providing most of the info plus some gags - - - it was a production much like an infommercial.

Among the changes are primarily integration of all their product line and a uniformity with all applications sharing the same familiar interface. Speed is apparently a noticeable difference - which is obviously more efficient use of code and from what I have heard, making use of graphics card power. More use of smart objects and linking to speed things up. Smart image resizing for Photoshop. Many 3D abilities that my Animator friend uses high end specialized applications for, are built into applications of the suit. And some things go beyond such as blending objects on layers into their example of a 3d wrapped sphere - and animating 2d images in flash by drawing the skeleton onto the graphic and having full control over the movement. They stated that their Macromedia product was only partly integrated in previosu versions but has now had 18 months of development to be fully integrated into the Adobe Lineup. The Master Suite includes all of their products (not Lightroom though) for $2500.00 - - - which while expensive, really isn't bad considering many specialized applications cost this much and more.


One thing that I have been playing with for the last year or so, is the content-aware scaling (smart image resizing) developed originally by Shai Avidan and sold to Adobe - - - this is fully integrated into Photoshop CS4 and is something that I will make good use of in my wedding book layouts or page layouts for graphics jobs or commercial clients. I do a lot of this type of thing manually now by selecting partes of images and resizing, but this feature makes it much easier and does a superior job. The cute demo they did in the live presentation, was fitting a "smart" VW van in between 2 other parked VW vans where the space was about half the length of the van - not only was this possible, but the proportions of the door handles, lights and other important details were kept in tact. For any who aren't aware of content-aware scaling, here is one of several videos describing:

http://www.photoshopsupport.com/photoshop-...-cs4-video.html

I skipped upgrading from CS2 to CS3 and am glad I did as this CS4 version appears to have a little more value for me as a result of 2 versions of advancement.

---

Other gems were highlighted by John Nack: http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2008/09/cs4_s...tails.html#more

Links to more reviews: http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2008/09/cs4_on_the_floo.html

And another post about CS4 videos by Russell Brown: http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2008/09/photoshop_cs4_v.html

ACR 5.x is enough. Sometimes I wish it wasn't, but ACR has just become awesome through the years. Any upgrade is just better.

Hopefully Bridge CS4 is fully re-vamped. I love the 'promise' of what Bridge could be. The previews give reason to hope.

Christopher,

Many thanks.

The increased RAM and the simultaneous release of ACR5 (I don't use Lightroom, only Flexcolor and ACR4) are reason enough for me to upgrade.

Hopefully, the dreaded "There is not enough memory" error (specific only to PC users of ACR, as far as I know) will be no more with these changes.

D.

Hey I am upgrading for the GPU speed bump. I maxed out my macbook for photo editing and repair of photos and still run out of memory when doing applications in CS3!

Hi Ron,
After seeing a few of the new "improvements" I'm thinking that you've got it right:


If it were just a Photoshop upgrade it would be a no brainer, but this Microsoft-ish Suites Business Model Adobe has adopted doesn't cut it for me.

Also, I've loved plug-ins since version 2, but you know every upgrade seems to make it more trouble to work with them. With every upgrade you have compatibility and activation problems out the wazoo. By the time you've entered all the 28 digit crypto serial numbers a few times, times up!

I've got better things to do! Time is tight!

So long for now, TOM

Just to be perfectly clear, it's Apple's fault that Photoshop CS4 won't be able to run in 64 bit on Macs...At the 2006 World Wide Developer's Conference, Apple promised to make Carbon (the APIs that Photoshop uses) available as 64 bit libraries when Leopard (10.5) was released...Adobe took Apple at thier word and planned on the development of a 64 bit version of Photoshop CS4 for the Mac using those 64 bit Carbon APIs. At the 2007 WWDC, Apple announced that they decided to kill the Carbon APIs for Leopard and developers had to switch to Cocoa in order to take advantage of 64 bit. You don't just change over 4 million lines of code to an entirely new set of APIs overnight. Apple knew full well that killing the 64 bit Carbon APIs for Leopard would mean that Adobe couldn't release a 64 bit version of Photoshop CS4 for the Mac...

So, if you wanna be pissed at somebody, it's Apple you should be pissed at.

Apple has a long track record of changing their minds and changing their platform and forcing developers to jump through incredible hoops to remain on their platform...they did it when they switched from 68K to PPC, they did it when they switch to OS X, they did it when they switch to Intel and they've done it again when the decided to kill Carbon 64 bit.

And, it's not just Adobe who gets the short end of the stick...any and all developers who develop for the Mac platform are forced through the same hoops. PixelGenius has suffered having to switch OS's and compilers as Apple has forced these changes down our throats. But compared to what Adobe is faced with, taking over 4 million lines of code (and counting) and going from using Carbon APIs to Cocoa APIs, our problems were mild. If you don't understand the implications, just realize it will be tens of thousands of man hours to do the work to get Photoshop CS5 to run under Cocoa and be able to take advantage of 64 bit libraries and APIs. Something Apple could have avoided if they had kept their promise to deliver 64 bit Carbon. But, Apple seem more concerned with advancing the iPhone (which caused a 6 month delay in the release of OS X 10.5) than with providing an optimal platform for 3rd party developers...

Compare that with MSFT and Vista and it's remarkable how much MSFT goes through hoops HELPING developers rather than hurting them.

And understand, I don't like MSFT and I am an Apple fan...I hate Windows. But, if you want to run 64 bit Photoshop CS4 on a Mac, you'll have to install Bootcamp and Vista 64 bit to do so. I can tell you from testing this (I have a MacPro with 16 gigs of ram) the pain of doing so may actually be worth it for people working on large multi-layered files.

So, just be clear whose fault the lack of 64 bit processing for Carbon apps is: Apple.

Be careful, you might like Vista 64

No I said the major difference between the two is something that would affect few people. If you are one of the few, then yes it's a bummer.
Though there's an easy workaround, install the Windows version.

Big improvement. Very nice to use.

Unofrtunately, that is not an easy workaround... it is easy from an IT standpoint, but it isn't from a licensing standpoint.

I have bought PS CS as part of the Creative Suite on Mac, and I don't believe that I could only just swtich PS to Windows while keeping the rest of my apps on Mac. I have no intention to migrate back to PC at this point of time.

Cheers,
Bernard

Jeff,

What I would like Adobe to do to address this situation is to release the 64 bits version of PS on Mac in 2 steps:

1. CS3.5 (or whatever it is called) with the same functionnal scope as CS3 but 64 bits compatible for OS10.5 using the new cocoa API set,
2. CS5 with the CS4 and CS5 new functions on 64 bits.

Point 1 is something they will have to do internally anyway, the cost of the release would only be the industralization of this as a public release. This could probably be delivered months before CS5.

Cheers,
Bernard

Do you have any friggin' clue what's involved in moving Photoshop from Carbon to Cocoa APIs?

We'll be REAL LUCKY if they get it done in the Photoshop CS5 time frame (on average, an 18 month cycle). They've had their top engineers (the super-geeks) working on it from the moment Adobe found out about it last year in spite of having to do major work on CS4 for both platforms.

It took two friggin' years to move from CodeWarrior to Xcode so they could get 4 million lines+ of code just to compile as a Universal Binary under Xcode (and a lot of work by Apple to get Xcode to compile a big project). Still, people complained it took so long and blamed Adobe (not Apple)

What you want isn't realistic or possible given what Apple has done to Adobe this time around.

You want 64 bit computing? Get a CS4 Win license and Vista 64 (don't even screw around with XP 64) the MacPros run Vista really, really fast...

I feel better about the product I work on having 2.5 million lines of code now. :-)

I understand the challenge Adobe face for migrating to 64 bit on OS X; for those not in the software business changing the user interface code AND moving from 32 to 64 bit at the same time is TWO (2) big jobs.


My experience -- which appears to be somewhat unusual -- is that Vista is far more stable than OS X. That plus Apple's, ah, "less than ideal" idea of hardware service means my future machines are likely to be generic PCs, but that will cause me grief trying to migrate Adobe licenses. :-(

My wish is for Adobe to do with CS4 what they've done with Lightroom, and treat a licensed copy as a licensed copy whether it's installed on Windows or OS X. Then at least I'd only have the grief of having to use Windows, virus protection, et al, but could move as and when I wish (e.g. a new desktop at a different time from a new notebook).

Giles

P.S. I'm no advocate for Microsoft, and I've found bugs (minimum) and crashed (usually) any operating system I've ever used. Why Adobe thinks locking people to Windows who want to migrate to Apple or locking people to Apple who want to move to Windows is a competitive advantage I do not understand. Maybe I lack the requisite marketing clue.

P.P.S. If Adobe *really* want to get a clue, they could start matching their USD$ prices in other markets. Just sayin'.

First, when it comes to building software I am completely clueless and am only asking a question. (so Please! don't bite my head off)

My question is shouldn't we be thankfull that Apple is moving this forward to Cocoa now? Won't it be necassary in the future anyways?


I realize with the internet and the way forums explode for Adobe not to release a CS4 now for Mac would be a marketing (branding) nightmare but at the same time I personally would like to see these major software companies take more time in between upgrades and make sure everything works and that truly new features are brought fourth.


(sidenote: Yes I alway skip a generation of upgrades unless I truly need it)

I think you'll find that CS4 for Mac will have plenty of new features. It's not as if CS4 for Windows will have all these bells and whistles whereas CS4 for Mac is the same as CS3 with the "3" changed to a "4". There are even things that CS4 Mac will have that CS4 Win doesn't, such as 16-bit printing.

Can't please everybody ...

oh guys please... hahaha!

I HAVE to get the stuff, not only that, I have to get it before all you guys do. Not only that I have to re-do about eleventy-million screenshots on a manuscript I thought was in the can about a month ago, and I have less than a month to do it.

BAH!

I'm NOT saying that Apple moving forward isn't a good thing–it is. The problem I have was with the way they did it. In 2006, they promised to have Carbon 64 in Leopard and all the 3rd party developers then made their road maps based on that promise. Then, a year later they decided to kill Carbon 64. That's where the problems came from. I'm not saying that Adobe COULD have done a Carbon>Cocoa switch if Adobe knew in 2006 that Carbon would NOT be supported in 64 bit in Leopard...but killing it in 2007 guaranteed that the Mac version of CS4 could not be 64 bit.

It's a pot hole, to be sure...we'll all get over it. And, as Eric says, there's STILL a ton of new stuff in CS4 that DOES improve productivity...for most people who don't work on multi-gig files all the time, the GPU acceleration is actually a bigger story for both platforms (and boy, let me tell ya, THAT was easy either). And, Mac Leopard with new printers/drivers CAN print in full 16 bit where as Windows doesn't support that. Also, CS4 will have GPU enabled support for multi-touch gestures on MacBook Air/MacBook Pro...ain;t gonna get that on Windows either.

The main point of my discourse is to make sure people understand the situation and don't go ballistic blaming the wrong company. Adobe bends over backwards to try to do platform agonistic features and functionality. But where the platform gets in the way or causes, (as in the case of 64 bit Carbon) an impossible task, then there's nothing Adobe can do except for what they've done.

Can anyone advise whether Windows XP Professional systems now with SP2 really need to adopt SP3 in order to use the shipping version of PSCS4?

I've been dithering about installing XP64 or Vista 64 on my MacPro and you've just tipped me towards Vista, as I trust you on this. Now if only Boot Camp on my Mac worked.

I've been testing CS4 beta on a 3 year old VAIO laptop and it works very nicely, though it is missing the nice zooming features I enjoy on my more recent MacPro.
I thought SP3 was on it, but today I was informed SP3 was waiting to be downloaded. So the beta at least works OK without it.
Content Aware Scaling on a 5D image however, told me that it did not like a mere 2G of RAM on laptop. Even with everything else turned off.

It's often the little stuff that in reality makes the most difference in the real world. Being able to pan documents off screen edge was the best enhancement for me, of whichever version of PS introduced that.

There's a list of the less headline grabbing stuff here.
http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2008/09/cs4_s...tails.html#more