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Rob C
QUOTE (Photostudent @ Aug 4 2009, 05:41 AM) *
hi Rob,


Farrokh Chothia is among the well known photographer in India. i have visited his website many times.

www.farrokhchothia.com





Yes, I know, thatīs why I asked Kumar the question.

But thanks, anyhow, somebody else may pick up on the site from your post.

Rob C
BobDavid
QUOTE (foto-z @ Aug 3 2009, 11:50 AM) *
80mm f2 Xenotar with 1.4x Longar, Sinar e54LV



Cool shot.
Phil Indeblanc
QUOTE (Frank Doorhof @ Aug 3 2009, 02:21 AM) *
A few from last saturday.

RZ67ProII with 180mm and 110mm Leaf Aptus22 digital back.



Ahh, finally some real quality! Each of these are very well done! The first is a slam, the second is strong, and the third...a great pose....Would love to see how its translucence and opaques hold in BW. clean images like these are always a pleasure to look at.
Phil Indeblanc
QUOTE (foto-z @ Aug 3 2009, 10:50 AM) *
80mm f2 Xenotar with 1.4x Longar, Sinar e54LV




I think I have seen this "hand to mouth" pose 1 or 2 times('78 to late 80's). It works here. I like the overall feel of the image. Not sure if its the model or what? But I don't see her as a "jewel dazzler" maybe thats what is keeping me from saying "Very Nice"! or the feel of an in between frame? She has such a peaceful look, a subtle beauty...Seeing her having that many flashy rings contrasts her "reality". I do like the head tilt and how her arms frame.
Phil Indeblanc
QUOTE (Oleksiy @ Aug 3 2009, 12:51 PM) *



first one is very nice. second is unnecesary, the third works.
Phil Indeblanc
QUOTE (Frank Doorhof @ Aug 4 2009, 01:45 AM) *
@Johan,
I decided to stay silent on this subject but I decided not to.

It's true that Snook has a very bad streak or humor as he calls it, something that is the opposite of how I work and think.
I've been sitting behind my screen with question marks often when I read his responses here or on other fora.
This serie puzzles me, he claims on several fora that the DH look is passe and that everyone doing it should do something unique, but here I see A LOT of DH influences in the post processing.
And I see a lot of other influences.

HOWEVER I find that every photographer is free to be inspired and use what ever they want to create art.
Somehow however I think that Snook is looking at the world with very big Snook glasses.

My coorperations with Leaf and Elinchrom will not be in danger by what Snook posts, they are based on mutual respect and simply on performance from my side.
And to be honest although I really hate it when I'm getting flamed again and again however I know that what I do is successful, the workshops are taught worldwide and we have students coming in from all over, the DVDs sell very well so I can only conclude one thing, somehow I'm not a good friend of Snook and to be honest I tried a lot of times to try to overcome this by giving responses to his questions in a normal matter, but over time I'm more and more just ignoring him, and I think a lot of people will do that.

A student in LA once told me he knew he great photographer but he didn't have any work because he was an ass, he also knew someone who was shooting all the stars but did mediocre work but was a blast to work with and a real people person.
Maybe he should think about that........
People love people that are open and nice, people hate people that are not.

And if you want to get work it's better to just play nice or really be nice biggrin.gif



I was in the middle of it one time you and Snook tangled. His behavior is simply laughable. I don't mean that I find him funny. I find the fact that there are people with his mannerizm oddly funny. Often self centered and "all about me" attitude people have no siblings or long term playmates; or have grown up in a very sheltered and attention fed environment. Perhaps a small school that she/he was well liked and sheltered. Take this subject and place him/her in a dynamic pool of other subjects...and you have yourself a kid(at any age) that is trying to get the attention he or she is used to. I am not saying this is Snook, but his unacceptable actions remind me of such behaviors. And then I form a little sympathy ...and some words of encouragement for the efforts. I post this so we can all look within us and see where we can improve about ourselves and the way we project our thoughts, as I know that the person who doesn't have harmful come backs or excuses... and looks within him or herself for improvement, rather than weaker opponents is the one that shows the most progress.
Frank Doorhof
QUOTE (Phil Indeblanc @ Aug 5 2009, 06:56 AM) *
I was in the middle of it one time you and Snook tangled. His behavior is simply laughable. I don't mean that I find him funny. I find the fact that there are people with his mannerizm oddly funny. Often self centered and "all about me" attitude people have no siblings or long term playmates; or have grown up in a very sheltered and attention fed environment. Perhaps a small school that she/he was well liked and sheltered. Take this subject and place him/her in a dynamic pool of other subjects...and you have yourself a kid(at any age) that is trying to get the attention he or she is used to. I am not saying this is Snook, but his unacceptable actions remind me of such behaviors. And then I form a little sympathy ...and some words of encouragement for the efforts. I post this so we can all look within us and see where we can improve about ourselves and the way we project our thoughts, as I know that the person who doesn't have harmful come backs or excuses... and looks within him or herself for improvement, rather than weaker opponents is the one that shows the most progress.


oh, that's deep......
now we go for worldpeace.... wink.gif
Rob C
QUOTE (Phil Indeblanc @ Aug 5 2009, 04:38 AM) *
I think I have seen this "hand to mouth" pose 1 or 2 times('78 to late 80's). It works here. I like the overall feel of the image. Not sure if its the model or what? But I don't see her as a "jewel dazzler" maybe thats what is keeping me from saying "Very Nice"! or the feel of an in between frame? She has such a peaceful look, a subtle beauty...Seeing her having that many flashy rings contrasts her "reality". I do like the head tilt and how her arms frame.




No offence, but the pose was already old-hat in the 60s and has never been out of fashion. Letīs face it (no pun etc.), there are only so many ways to put hand(s) and face together. Speaking of the 60s, chunky rings were also de rigueur then, the principal service being to help one focus those slow Hassy lenses under cheap modelling lights. Unless, of course, you were selling them as part of every modelīs kit - rings, not slow Hassy lenses, but I guess you knew that. Sorry folks, itīs all been done before ad nauseam.

Rob C
Phil Indeblanc
QUOTE (Rob C @ Aug 5 2009, 10:34 AM) *
No offence, but the pose was already old-hat in the 60s and has never been out of fashion. Letīs face it (no pun etc.), there are only so many ways to put hand(s) and face together. Speaking of the 60s, chunky rings were also de rigueur then, the principal service being to help one focus those slow Hassy lenses under cheap modelling lights. Unless, of course, you were selling them as part of every modelīs kit - rings, not slow Hassy lenses, but I guess you knew that. Sorry folks, itīs all been done before ad nauseam.

Rob C



I hear ya....Fotoz puts out top level work...and yes perhaps the pose is "the pose".. I am not sure what it was that didnt grab me :-)

Its just an observation...nothing too critical
PLLove
Just recently had some of my work published in Indianapolis Woman -- a local magazine. 1st publication!! WHOHOOO!!!!!

http://www.iwemag.info/IWaug09_eBook/flash.html#/22/

- pages 22-23 under Nikki Blaine Couture. (4 shots total, including the headshot)

Pat
tho_mas
QUOTE (PLLove @ Aug 5 2009, 02:35 PM) *
1st publication!! WHOHOOO!!!!!
hey... that's a great, great day for you! congratulations!
Phil Indeblanc
QUOTE (PLLove @ Aug 5 2009, 03:35 PM) *
Just recently had some of my work published in Indianapolis Woman -- a local magazine. 1st publication!! WHOHOOO!!!!!

http://www.iwemag.info/IWaug09_eBook/flash.html#/22/

- pages 22-23 under Nikki Blaine Couture. (4 shots total, including the headshot)

Pat



They look very nice. I like how the dress flows on the lower shot.
congrats!
PLLove
QUOTE (Phil Indeblanc @ Aug 5 2009, 04:14 PM) *
They look very nice. I like how the dress flows on the lower shot.
congrats!


Thanks Phil. I only have three pics (+ Nikki's headshot).

The one of the dark-skin model with the white two piece, the bottom right dress, and the white one piece on the upper left on the following page.

-Pat
Frank Doorhof
QUOTE (PLLove @ Aug 6 2009, 12:19 AM) *
Thanks Phil. I only have three pics (+ Nikki's headshot).

The one of the dark-skin model with the white two piece, the bottom right dress, and the white one piece on the upper left on the following page.

-Pat


Pat,
congrats, long overdue because your work is wonderful.
more will follow, you're a great guy to work with so they will come back biggrin.gif
Kumar
QUOTE (PLLove @ Aug 6 2009, 07:19 AM) *
Thanks Phil. I only have three pics (+ Nikki's headshot).

The one of the dark-skin model with the white two piece, the bottom right dress, and the white one piece on the upper left on the following page.

-Pat


Congratulations! Local magazine today, Vogue tomorrow!

Kumar
qstudios
Congrats Pat! The pics really look great!

- Marq
Frank Doorhof
Some shots we did for the new Album of A-tif and Suggest

more via my blog on www.doorhof.nl/blog under news.
PLLove
QUOTE (Frank Doorhof @ Aug 7 2009, 02:23 AM) *
Some shots we did for the new Album of A-tif and Suggest

more via my blog on www.doorhof.nl/blog under news.


Great work, Frank!!
tesfoto
QUOTE (PLLove @ Aug 5 2009, 03:35 PM) *
1st publication!! WHOHOOO!!!!!



I think you are pulling our legs here - something is not quite right.

You have a professional website with client login, and this is what you state about your self:


Click to view attachment



Clients for the last 15 years and this is your 1st publication - you took your time !


Congratulations wink.gif

tes



AndreNapier
QUOTE (tesfoto @ Aug 7 2009, 10:32 AM) *
I think you are pulling our legs here - something is not quite right.

You have a professional website with client login, and this is what you state about your self:


Click to view attachment



Clients for the last 15 years and this is your 1st publication - you took your time !


Patrick states clearly : He needs to earn the trust of his clients first. biggrin.gif

Congrats Pat
Andre
Frank Doorhof
QUOTE (AndreNapier @ Aug 7 2009, 06:05 PM) *
Patrick states clearly : He needs to earn the trust of his clients first. biggrin.gif

Congrats Pat
Andre

Some photographers do a lot of weddings, seniors etc. and never have a publication.
Some photographers only shoot for magazines.

biggrin.gif
PLLove
QUOTE (tesfoto @ Aug 7 2009, 10:32 AM) *
I think you are pulling our legs here - something is not quite right.

You have a professional website with client login, and this is what you state about your self:


Click to view attachment



Clients for the last 15 years and this is your 1st publication - you took your time !


Congratulations wink.gif

tes


Wow! Someone actually reads that mumbo jumbo?! tongue.gif I am actually revamping my whole website and will get rid of that section. Its kinda boring to me now and doesn't really depict my personality.

However, Frank is correct! I spent many years doing family portraits and weddings. I found it quite uninspiring and strongly considered othe avenues in photography. I took several fashion/beauty workshops--one being a workshop Frank offered in LA!

This is my first publication, and truly hope to have many many more. I got goosebumps when I saw my work in print! laugh.gif
-PL
Phil Indeblanc
QUOTE (Frank Doorhof @ Aug 7 2009, 12:03 PM) *
Some photographers do a lot of weddings, seniors etc. and never have a publication.
Some photographers only shoot for magazines.

biggrin.gif



Thinking the same thing, ...schools, portraits, etc...
AndreNapier
Pat,
It is relatively easy avenue. You just have to keep sending your work and following with phone calls.
There are hundreds of magazines. You will get some rejection but you will also be surprise of how many of them will be happy to work with you.
Congratulation again. It is a nice feeling. Enjoy the goosebumps they are the currency that most magazines pay with.
Andre
tesfoto
QUOTE (AndreNapier @ Aug 7 2009, 02:16 PM) *
Pat,
Enjoy the goosebumps they are the currency that most magazines pay with.
Andre



So very true.


tesfoto
QUOTE (PLLove @ Aug 7 2009, 12:53 PM) *
This is my first publication, and truly hope to have many many more.



I am sure you will, I wish you the best of luch.

Phil Indeblanc
QUOTE (tesfoto @ Aug 7 2009, 03:15 PM) *
So very true.




How do you mean that it is the currency most mags pay with?

How has your experiences been on how magazines pay?...and maybe a couple magazines for example to get a jist of knowing the local trade vs the national/international nice glossy stuff?
telyt
QUOTE (Phil Indeblanc @ Aug 7 2009, 05:24 PM) *
How do you mean that it is the currency most mags pay with?


The $$$ is nil. They "pay" you with free publicity. Woo Hoo! Take it to the bank & pay your mortgage with it (NOT).
TMARK
QUOTE (Phil Indeblanc @ Aug 7 2009, 08:24 PM) *
How do you mean that it is the currency most mags pay with?

How has your experiences been on how magazines pay?...and maybe a couple magazines for example to get a jist of knowing the local trade vs the national/international nice glossy stuff?


The bigger the mag, the less they pay for editorial. Interview pays $0, for example, but goes the extra mile with production. The local and regional mags, like Texas, Los Angeles, etc, pay, rates vary depending on usage. Vibe used to pay $1500 for a cover, but since they rarely paid the invoices, it turns into free.

There is of course usage, and bullshit digital fees (which they may or may not pay), and retouching, which they will always pay, but now a days mags send the shoot to a retoucher rather than the shooter. I used to be able to squeeze $6k out of three page spreads, mainly in retouching and usage.

Never front production fees for a magazine. They pay late, if at all, and you en up holding the bag with a pissed off vendor.

The only reason to shoot editorial is to get commercial jobs. That's it.

What Andre said is right, send a comp card with a link to your site and follow up a few days later with a call.

One word of advice on billing: I know the web is full of photo business experts extolling the virtues of a hard line, nickel and dime approach to billing of digital fees. That's bullshit. Its destructive, poisonous to relationships, which is how you get work. Unless you are Platon or Annie L., a PE is going to look at your line item for RAW processing and call bullshiot on it, show it to everyone in the office, get frustrated, and cross it out with a red pen, and maybe never hire you again. What works better is to take them to lunch and have a drink, for a productive, genuine relationship rather than an adversarial game.

After a few years the game gets old, and harder to play. As print ad budgets plummet and competition for even low end commercial work gets stiffer and stiffer, you have to ask yourself if its worth it. I decided it was a losing battle, as the magazines I shot for folded and catalogue work started degrading from locations and elaborate sets to seamless and static shots. I work in motion now, for the same clients I used to shoot stills. And you know what? I found all that money that was slashed from print budgets: its in web and motion.
TMARK
QUOTE (telyt @ Aug 7 2009, 09:16 PM) *
The $$$ is nil. They "pay" you with free publicity. Woo Hoo! Take it to the bank & pay your mortgage with it (NOT).


Think of it this way: A full page ad in Interview is I believe $35k. If you have a full page in Interview, you get that $35k worth of exposure, to an audience that includes high end art buyers, taste makers, and other decision makers.

Besides repeat business, I always got commercial work after an editorial.
AndreNapier
"So very true"


It is a fact and not a speculation.
Small magazines do not pay, large magazines have very limited editorial budget that is often not enough for production cost.
With few exception it is a shrinking market. Most photogs do editorial for recognition and client access.
Andre



tesfoto
QUOTE (TMARK @ Aug 7 2009, 09:17 PM) *
The bigger the mag, the less they pay for editorial.


I work for top of the line international magazines coming out of London (sorry Phil no names, this is as close as I can get).

For a 3-4 day editorial shoot - if I use an assistant and my normal retousher, I will end paying to do the job.

Luckily the names are so big that a lot of photographers (or students) will work for free as assistans, just to tell they have been working for these magazines.


QUOTE (TMARK @ Aug 7 2009, 09:17 PM) *
The only reason to shoot editorial is to get commercial jobs. That's it.



Yes, but it can be a lot of fun too.

I think it is very good for my commercial business to be able to tell my other clients, oh btw I just shot xxx for yyy.


Cheers

tes
Phil Indeblanc
QUOTE (tesfoto @ Aug 8 2009, 01:03 AM) *
I work for top of the line international magazines coming out of London (sorry Phil no names, this is as close as I can get).



Funny, I have been doing the commecial work for many mags now (drop a name and I can answer yes/no ) wink.gif .... and just wanted some recognition and a more creative expression by doing editorial work.

Who do you contact? the pub editor or the writers or the photo editors..?
tesfoto
QUOTE (Phil Indeblanc @ Aug 8 2009, 02:12 AM) *
Funny, I have been doing the commecial work for many mags now (drop a name and I can answer yes/no ) wink.gif .... and just wanted some recognition and a more creative expression by doing editorial work.

Who do you contact? the pub editor or the writers or the photo editors..?




I guess I was lucky that one of the leading mag in the field contacted me, then the others and the rest is history.

It is generally the designers who brief me, not the editors or photo editors.

Good luck Phil, my feeling is that they like to work with commercial photographers for editorials; they just don’t pay them very well.



Phil Indeblanc
QUOTE (Kumar @ Aug 8 2009, 10:29 AM) *



Very good link Kumar
PLLove
QUOTE (Kumar @ Aug 8 2009, 11:29 AM) *


Thanks for posting this Kumar! Very true. Just this month, I have been bombarded with local people wanting my services in return of "exposure".

-PL
TMARK
QUOTE (PLLove @ Aug 8 2009, 07:29 PM) *
Thanks for posting this Kumar! Very true. Just this month, I have been bombarded with local people wanting my services in return of "exposure".

-PL


Working for free is fine as long as its editorial. Shooting commercial work for free, or any work that isn't your expression or your style etc., is ridiculous, because exposure is only valuable if it gets you the kind of work you want.. A spread in French, or Italian Vogue, or Interview, is the kind of exposure you want, and need.

In the states I contact the PE and all the PE assistants, the beauty editor, and the fashion editor and their assistants. If you get one of these people to keep your comp card, they may push for you at some point, if not now maybe in the future.

Tesfoto is right on the money.

MichaelEzra
Shot in April 2009, Moscow.
Just got to process this one
Phil Indeblanc
QUOTE (MichaelEzra @ Aug 9 2009, 06:29 PM) *
Shot in April 2009, Moscow.
Just got to process this one



I LOVE the overlapping form/contrast, the pose, the tone, the edgyness, the sexiness... her knee squaring up with her shoulder, her arm, head....This is VERY NICE!!
I can also see this cropped off-center with space to the canvas right and top to give it a bit space play.

There really is a lot going on in this image. Very well done
MichaelEzra
QUOTE (Phil Indeblanc @ Aug 9 2009, 07:22 PM) *
I LOVE the overlapping form/contrast, the pose, the tone, the edgyness, the sexiness... her knee squaring up with her shoulder, her arm, head....This is VERY NICE!!
I can also see this cropped off-center with space to the canvas right and top to give it a bit space play.

There really is a lot going on in this image. Very well done


Hi Phil, I know what you mean about the cropping:) This web image may be a bit tight. The master file has all the space around the model, and there are so many ways to rotate it and to cut it...smile.gif
Thanks for the kind words,

Michael
Frank Doorhof
A few from this weekend.
Sorry for the six but I thought it was worth it biggrin.gif
Imaginara
QUOTE (Kumar @ Aug 8 2009, 05:29 PM) *


Hi Kumar! =)

Very true article there. The added fun thing ive noticed (after having done a LOT of pro-bono work biggrin.gif is that once you stop being availible for free work (dont have to say that you don't do it anymore, just that due to business engagement you need to charge this time) you might actually get more and better work. A little like "first fix is free" ;D

Serious professional clients expect to pay for what they want, those who expect to get it for free are neither serious or professional and you most likely do not want them as clients. And even if they promise exposure, you can be damn sure that exposure is for whatever you are photographing, not you as a photographer.

And to keep this on topic here is one from my latest work. Shot on Fuji FP100C45 on a Horseman 4x5 =)
Frank Doorhof

Very nice shot Imaginara.
Phil Indeblanc
QUOTE (Frank Doorhof @ Aug 10 2009, 07:02 AM) *
A few from this weekend.
Sorry for the six but I thought it was worth it biggrin.gif



Love the red hat portrait!
Phil Indeblanc
Really nice Imaginara!
BobDavid
QUOTE (MichaelEzra @ Aug 9 2009, 06:29 PM) *
Shot in April 2009, Moscow.
Just got to process this one


I'd love to see this as a print. I'll bet it would be stunning.
PHOTO ZARA
QUOTE (Imaginara @ Aug 10 2009, 08:08 AM) *
Hi Kumar! =)

Very true article there. The added fun thing ive noticed (after having done a LOT of pro-bono work biggrin.gif is that once you stop being availible for free work (dont have to say that you don't do it anymore, just that due to business engagement you need to charge this time) you might actually get more and better work. A little like "first fix is free" ;D

Serious professional clients expect to pay for what they want, those who expect to get it for free are neither serious or professional and you most likely do not want them as clients. And even if they promise exposure, you can be damn sure that exposure is for whatever you are photographing, not you as a photographer.

And to keep this on topic here is one from my latest work. Shot on Fuji FP100C45 on a Horseman 4x5 =)



lovely
PHOTO ZARA
Frank very nice as usual
PHOTO ZARA
QUOTE (MichaelEzra @ Aug 9 2009, 06:29 PM) *
Shot in April 2009, Moscow.
Just got to process this one


Michael i've seen your web site very nice work
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