Has anyone had a chance to preview or evaluate the newly announced (front page of DPR today) Hasselblad "multi shot" technology?

Hasselblad datasheet ("it's a PDF"):
http://www.hasselblad.co.uk/media/997168/u...atasheet_v3.pdf

Hate to burst your bubble but multi-shot technology has been around for at least 10 years Do a search here for multi-shot and you should get some data. Basically for static subjects it produces much sharper cleaner images with more accurate colours, very useful tool to have. Apart from some very old backs the multi-shot systems will also capture single shots making them very flexible tools.
Nick-T

It's even 15, Nick.

Best regards,
Thierry

Thanks Thierry I was hoping you'd chime in! My experience on goes back to 2000 with a 6MP 3020. (Did love that Phillips chip!) Did Sinar invent the process or was it Leaf?
Nick-T

I don't think he's suggesting that multi-shot is new. He's simply asking if anyone has had a chance to try out Hasselblad's "NEW" 50 MP multi-shot back. It's a "NEW" product Hasselblad just announced. I would think multi-shot on a 50 MP back would be quite impressive for the right kinds of subjects.

Is live view working on the 50 MS?

It probably will be with Phocus2.0. I thought I understood there was another trade-in program in place but I have been looking for it and haven't found it sofar. I don't have a need to upgrade to the 50MS but depending on my possibilities I might be tempted.

Thank you.

The first multishot I worked on was a sinar camera with a leaf cameraback and a filter wheel- a Sinar/leaf combination - Leaf software
Jenoptic did the piezo movements later
wasn't life simple then?
edwin

Dear Edwin,

yes, the "good old times"!



That was actually the Loral 2k x 2k = 4 MPx sensor. I know some places where it is STILL in use and produces outstanding quality. Yes, it was a Leaf-Sinar cooperation

What many did forget, is that "multishot" technology was actually how digital began with: there existed only monochrome CCDs, without color filters on top of each pixel, and the only way to get a color image was to take a 3-shot image through the basic R, G & B filters. That was already a "true-color" image, not interpolated.
Only a couple of years later came the first CCDs with the pixels "covered" with little color filters in a particular pattern, giving birth to the first 1-shot backs.

Best regards,
Thierry

Dear Nick,

Yes, that is actually still a wonderful sensor, still used by many, even if sometimes only as backup unit. A Philips 6 MPx on a Macroscan in 16-shot mode and with the right lenses can still out-perform all current single shot backs.

As said, all started on the high-end level with Sinar cooperating with Leaf and developing a 2k x 2k Loral CCD sensor. If I am right, Leaf had already developed the back, when they started cooperation with Sinar.
All I can say about who is responsible for what is about the "Live-Video" feature, since I am partly responsible for it being developed in the next generation of backs, when I suggested to Mr. Koch to use the CCD the same way sensors were used in the video field. Mr. Koch asked if I was thinking this feature could be successful and accepted among photographers to which I proposed him to organize a "testing day" in Zuerich, with invitations to selected photographers, as soon as we could have a working prototype. That was done a few weeks later and the response was so positive among the attending professionals, that it was decided to go ahead and propose a "live image" with the next digital back.

Best regards,
Thierry

Sorry, no criticism of the OP was intended I must have mis-read. (A side benefit of my confusion has been some interesting stuff on those old backs being discussed, thanks Thierry)

To better answer the question I have no personal experience of the 50MP but would expect the quality to be very good, well worth getting hold of some examples to see the difference. Fabrics (like lie flat clothing or soft furnishings) whiskey bottles (with fine type) and pastel colours (in say a water colour) will all be good test subjects to illustrate the advantages of multi-shot.

Nick-T

I'm just confused as to why they would introduce an H3DII-50 MS now rather than go straight to an H4D-50 MS.

The H3DII-50MS started shipping back in May/June so it has been around for a while!

The first one went to the Van Gogh museum in The Netherlands I believe.

David

I have tried the H3DII50MS last week with a beta of Phocus 2.0 (with Live Video). It is without a doubt the best camera in the world at this moment. We did a test comparing with the P65+ which has an overall lackluster image with a complete lack of saturation, red color casts in the shadows and cyan color casts in the highlights. We also did a test comparing Hasselblad's H 120 f/4 macro, V 120 f/4 macro and Mamiya's 120 f/4 macro. Mamiya's lens lost big time, the V was in the middle (tested on the Dalsa sensor, though, hence without the Phocus lens corrections), and the Hasselblad H lens was the clear winner. Then we turned on the Multishot feature and it blew us all away. I can only describe it as about the same amount of difference that we found between the EOS 5DMKII with 50mm/1.4 and the H3D-39 with 80mm f/2.8 which we tested the day before.
I have never seen an image with more definition in my life.

-Niels

Neils, what subject matter were you using? I have seen debate about what subjects do and do not benefit from multi-shot, with fine art reproduction and conservation work one suggestion. (Note that a museum got the first one.)

We did a still set with some fruit, a bank note and a color card. Measured grey values on the color card.
Fruit is good for viewing reproduction of real colors. Bank notes are excellent because of the detail in their printing. If you want I can post some results when I get back to the studio.

-Niels

Yes, please post some results.
Was the live video in b+w or color, and how many fps?
Thank you,
Billy

David,
If one purchases H3dii-50ms now, does the camera body get upgraded when H4d is available
as with H3dii-50 and H3dii-60?
Thank you,
Billy

Confused

Yair

Phase has the Dalsa sensor so the image was processed with the Capture One software which does not have the Hasselblad lenses mapped to do automatic corrections that Phocus would have applied

It is in B&W, and looks just like the previous version (it was always available for the 39). It is meant as a focus aid and is amazing when using the tilt&shift.

-Niels
niels.com

I don't know that I would proclaim any camera "the best camera in the world", but I admire your enthusiasm. As an experienced reseller for multi shot products, I agree it is true multi-shot captures are extremely impressive.

However, I cannot agree with your assessment of the P65+ image quality nor can I agree on Mamiya lenses losing to the V and HC lenses, though you did not provide the criteria by which they were judged inferior. Would be interesting to hear some more information regarding your methods and results.


Thank you,
Steve Hendrix

Steve,

You can't honestly believe that the Mamiya lenses hold up to the Hasselblad lenses!!

I don't care who your working for this week, but a statement like that will quickly remove any shred of credibility you may have left!

Steve has a ton of credibility,
who recently went out of his way trying to help a Jenoptik user here,
neither his customer, nor brand he supports.

Afternoon All,

Blimey I'm going Soft here-- No Steve's making a pretty fair fist of the LL MFDB minefield and on the whole reasonable to boot-- so ease up on the chap--

We have used all the 120 mm Lenses mentioned above and can categorically state the ones mentioned are all stellar performers we've

printed the files from the Blad and Mamiya 120's up to 3m on the Lightjet and I can vouch for their quality/colour /resolution/etc. They both are near State of the Art for MF current lenses.

I presume it was the 120 Macro V series F4 Planar mentioned as the third contender--I've personally owned that lens for over 33 years and it is bl**dy sharp!

DesW

Mr. Tographer,

Would be good if people here were paying a bit more respect to one another, but I guess throwing stones from behind a big bush (read alias) and contributing absolutely nothing to the discussion, adds a lot to one's own credibility....

FWIW the Mamiya 120/f4 macro is IMO one of the best MF lenses in production and often requires 0 software corrections. If you have any RAW files that support your blanket claim of it's inferiority compared to other lenses then please post them, thanks.

Yair

I've used both the Mamiya 120 Macro and the Hasselblad H 120 Macro. Both are optically great. The biggest advantage of the H is that it is an auto focus lens and that I can focus the lens remotely while tethered through Phocus. The leaf shutter is nice because it doesn't create as much vibration as a focal plane shutter (noticeable with extreme closeup, multi-shot photography). The high sync speed is a plus too.

ET

I do quite believe this. I try not to make real statements about things unless I have had direct experience. Recently, I did participate in a test comparing some of the HC lenses to the Phase One D lenses. I was surprised how well the P1 D lenses performed. This was a loose and basic test and compared from a visible sharpness and resolving power perspective. The HC lenses seemed slightly sharper wide open, while the P1 D lenses seemed sharper stopped down at f11 and smaller. With lens tests, I think the issue of batch variation should always be kept in mind if the results are dramatically different than expectations (especially lower). However, while I was surprised by the results, there have been many who have posted impressive experiences with the new P1 D lenses.

It's true I have moved around a bit, though not as much as it seems. I did spend 6 years with PPR selling Hasselblad, Leaf, and Sinar, worked for Phase One directly for a year, then moved back to the channel dealer selling Phase One and Leaf, hopefully for another long term. I specifically prefer working in the dealer channel selling multiple solutions because I can then offer honest comparative analysis of those products.

Given that I am someone who sells and supports these types of products, my reputation and credibility is very much on the line each time I make a post here and I am extremely conscious of that.


Steve Hendrix

I am a Phase One user for a long time, I got my P65+ a few months ago, a great back, extremely high resolution. But put it agaist a Sinar eVolution 75H - a MERE 33 million multi-shot capture back, the file produce from multi-shot is still visibly better than single shot, even it is alomost twice the resolution. And don't forget the multi-shot back can also do single capture. The multi-shot back has its place to stay, so as P65+ has it place to stay, or a simple Canon S90 has its place to stay, such as many good photographer's pocket.

Regards, K

It's blindingly obvious to anyone with half a brain that Steve H offers honest views based on wide experience and always exhibits great integrity - and often restraint. Any one who sates otherwise must have a hidden agenda - as well as hiding behind an alias. Would be great if we could weed out the morons and trolls from this site.

Although I joined in lately, I've been reading LL for quite a time now. From what I've read I can tell that I'd be more than glad to do business with Steve. Not to mention that his input here is absolutely not beneficial for him in many (majority?) cases.

I'll just add to this that my friend Bill Atkinson, one of the most respected people in the industry when it comes to both technology as well as photographic credentials, has switched from a Hasselblad H system and lenses to Phase One. So has Mark Dubovoy, a widely exhibited fine art photographer and teacher. And if you've noticed, I have some small interest in ultimate image quality and I now shoot with Phase cameras, lenses and backs.

Oh yes, so does Jeff Schewe, Charles Cramer and Tim Wolcott, all of whom are widely respected both for their photography as well as their technical acumen. Give me a few minutes and I'll think of a few more. So, taking the position that there is something about Hasselblad H lenses that puts them on a different plane than Mamiya / Phase lenses is simply unsubstantiated posturing.

Now if you want to talk about great lenses, have a look at the Schneider Digitars or Rodenstock digital lenses for technical cameras. But, that's another story.

Michael

Michael,

Have you seen any difference between your Phase One, Hasselblad and the Rodenstock lenses you also have? You have a couple of Rodenstock HR lenses for your Linhof, I believe?

Sorry for asking, it's only a theoretical interest, I'm in the DSLR camp both regarding means and needs.

Best regards
Erik