That is the price for the DSLR - the back is possibly a bit cheaper, though I haven't seen a published price for it in Europe yet.

Ouch!!  Today it takes US $1.34 to buy one Euro.  I rather doubt that the $ price will be the same as the Euro price.  The Euro has been much higher than the $ for quite some time.  I guess I'll be "limping along" with my 1ds until the next generation of MF DSLR, so I can afford an old generation one.  4x5 film is starting to look more reasonable once I've done a few years of 1ds.

Let's be optimistic: even with the drop in value of the US$ (maybe about to be fixed a bit by the Federal Reserve's raising of interest rates), the practice of US$ price = Euro price persists; for example, the kit of Olympus E-300+14-45 lens seems to be coming out at 999 units on either side of the Atlantic.

A better indication might be to look at the Euro price ratio of 1Ds to RZ, and guess at the same price ratio in the USA.

I am referring to the prices that one has to pay at two apparently reputable dealers in the USA and Germany. (I see no point in comparing US list price to anything, since my objective is to predict what one is likely to have to pay for a Mamiya RZ in the USA, not what its USA list price is.)

US$999 is the announced US MAP and also the current "B&H" price; pre-sales tax, but for most customers, paying sales tax is not required.

999 euro is a reported European price, presumably including tax since European laws generally require advertising the price that one actually has to pay, including all taxes. Specifically, it is the price at Photo Kosfeld in Dortmund Germany, according to this DPReview forum post
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums....1414528

According to some apparently reliable sources on Rob Galbraith's forum, some European Calumet outlets are pricing the New Mamiya ZD back at around Euros 7,990 and the Camera around Euros 8,800 before VAT.

Pretty agressive pricing, if correct - could radically change the MF digital world.

Quentin

Hey, that's great news.  That's very close to the initial 1ds prices, so in a year or two this thing could even be sort of affordable.  I'll for sure put my already weakening 1ds2 lust to rest.  It will be very interesting to see pictures and reviews.  Anybody know if there's any cameras out there anywhere whatsoever yet?

In france the 1DsII is about Eu 6,300 without VAT (Eu7,500TTC). In the UK the price without VAT is about GBP4,500 - about the same as the Euro price.

For reference that is about 60% more than a 1DII.

I'm rooting for Quentin and Rob Galbraith.  In any case, in the absence of any actual cameras anywhere so far for review, cameras for sale in a few weeks is highly doubtful.

I wonder if Mamiya would accept the principle of democracy to determine their pricing for this?  I vote for the low end.

Didger - surely an MF DSLR isn't really a true competitor to a 1Ds ? They are very different beasts. The ZD is quite primitive in terms of functionality compared to the 1Ds, and you can forget long lenses, stabilisers, and fast frame rates.  I think you're a pure landscape guy - but if you're at all into wildlife, or indeed long lens landscape shots, then the ZD isn't going to replace your 1Ds... is it ?

The actual price I have seen quoted on the Calumet Netherlands site is Eu9,990. If you add VAT(Sales Tax at 20%) that comes out at Eu12,000.

Deliveries are stated to commence some time in January 2005.

the prices are for the body 12000Euro and for the back abit less than 10000euro. I guess the figures will be the same in US but in dollars.

I saw the DPI thread and the site they quoted (Calumet) has a price of Eu9,990 before sales tax - it looks like whoever posted in DPI subtracted sales tax from a price which did not include the sales tax in the first place. However, if someone has an online retailer with a lower price then that is good news.

March sound realistic, though Calumet is indicating deliveries in January(?).

" In any case, in the absence of any actual cameras anywhere so far for review, cameras for sale in a few weeks is highly doubtful."

Boy, no kidding. Someone on Miranda says they actually had them in STOCK at Calumet in netherlands THIS morning - I tried to convince him otherwise, but was unsuccessful - he still thinks the camera is sitting on the shelf just waiting for someone to buy it. Don't know of any photos published on the net anywhere as yet that were taken with the camera or back - and I agree we are still a ways out from them shipping. My Mamiya rep told me just a couple of days ago perhaps in March, but who knows. It will be fun when they do hit the streets...

Tim Ernst
www.Cloudland.net

I expect that as long as my 1ds stays functional, nothing will replace it for me.  However, as long as I stay photograhically functional nothing will altogether cure my large print envy either.  An MF DSLR would be for alternate use with my 1ds, or concurrent for non-backpacking venues.  Frame rate and long lenses are not issues.  Largest possible prints is the issue.  I'd really like 8x10 LF, but that's totally out of the question, but if MF doesn't happen in a way I like soon enough, then I might go for 4x5 film as an occasional alterntive to 1ds.

Going out shooting so much (and taking careful notes) I'm developing quite a list of fantastic places to go back to some time for a few larger format shots, but it all depends on finances and if a gallery presence looks realistic (for displaying large prints).

I'm assuming this is the back only; what is the likely price for the 22MP MF DSLR?

And has anyone seen any sample images anywhere?

What is the 1Ds II price in Europe, minus VAT?

The Mamiya ZD price thread on rob Galbraith's forum sugggests a lower price than the some of the figures mentoned here, i.e. more in line with the figures I mentioned earlier, and a release date of 05 March 2005.

Quentin

Are you referring to "list price" or "street price" (what a place like B&H actually charges)?  With photo gear there's generally a huge difference in the US (typically at least 30%, though sometimes less with very high end gear).  We have to compare European list with American list.

I find it hard to imagine that with current technology anyway, there would be much benefit to long lens wildlife photography from having 16MP or 22 MP. The shutter speed needed to freeze subject motion must increase in proportion to resolution (linear pixel count across the frame?), so as to keep the "tracks" of motion blur down to about the pixel size, so I imagine one would end up needing extreme ISO settings even at long lens maximum apertures like f/4, and thus losing that sharpness to some mix of excessively shallow DOF or noise and the needed NR processing.

So my guess is that for the most part, the resolution advantage of 16MP and up over the 11MP of the painfully obsolete 1DS "Mark 1" or the 12MP of the sadly underpowered Nikon D2X will only pay off for fairly stationary or very well lit subjects.

Perhaps someone like Michael has experience trying wildlife photography with a combination like the 1Ds Mark II and 500/4 lens?